Burglars

[Embattle]

Originally posted by stu


I'm merely responding to what you write... try to not be so aggressive and/or see conspiracies everywhere?

No you were responding to what you thought I wrote, your interpretation of it.

 

[Durzel]

 

[Embattle]

 

[FatBusinessman]

 

[Embattle]

Nice red x

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by stu
Sorry if I'm treading on the toes of your 'legal knowledge' again, I'm merely pointing something out.

lol, if only Embattle knew

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by Durzel
I'd always been under the impression that "reasonable force" covered only defensive actions, not offensive ones. It's also difficult to see how a shotgun could be ever be seen as being an object with which to defend your person. A handgun maybe, because you can incapacitate someone - but a shotgun is going to do serious damage wherever you point it, at the very least you're going to blow off part of someone at close range, and the spread of shot at medium/long range would render any directed shot obsolete. If you pointed a shotgun at anyone at medium/long range, you'd kill them - irrespective of where you were pointing on them.

The fact they were running away indicates "motion toward" on the part of Tony Martin, ie. not a defensive action. Had he simply threatened them, and let's face it you're not going to argue with someone holding a shotgun, then there would never have been any of this mess.

That said, I have absolutely zero compassion for the bloke that was killed. Live by the sword, die by the sword n' all that.

Whether it's deadly depends on a number of factors. The bore of the SG, the range, what it's loaded with, whether it's sawn-off

Basically, I'd have shot the bastard. Hopefully to cripple but if he died it's his look-out. I didn't ask him to come to my house. Tough shit imo

 

[stu]

Originally posted by Wij
Basically, I'd have shot the bastard. Hopefully to cripple but if he died it's his look-out. I didn't ask him to come to my house. Tough shit imo

And people would say the same thing when you go down for manslaughter

 

[FatBusinessman]

Are you allowed to shoot people if you have a sign saying "Trespassers will be shot" at the front gate? Because I'm fairly sure it's something like that with dogs...

 

[Gumbo]

Another Tony Martin Fact...

His legally held shotguns were removed some months previously to the incident after he peppered the back of a delivery van, which had turned up at the wrong address.

I agree that under the current law, he had to be found guilty, that doesn't make it 'right' in my eyes.

The law needs a change, we live in increasingly violent times, and we should be allowed more leeway to protect ourselves and out property within our homes..

No-one invited those scumfuck dids into his house, they chose to be there and in my view paid the price, quite simple really.

And you mean to say you can shoot dogs who trespass provided you have a warning sign up?, How are the dogs meant to read the sign?

 

[~Lazarus~]

Ive heard that there are different kinds of burglars about.

#1 : 1st thing they do is pick up a long kitchen knife from YOUR kitchen incase they are disturbed.

#2 : First thing they do is boil up the kettle in case they are disturbed.

#3 : opportunistic pricks who do the "casual" burglaries.

All in all they can be all rolled into 1 classification: "Scumbag little shits"

Ive got a nice little 7-iron.

My defense : I was practising my swing in the living room when someone accidently walked into my follow through. I didnt know someone else was in the room at the same time. Honestly your honour

When you have 2 young kids in the house, you do what you need to do.

 

[Gumbo]

And on the subject of theft it seems some German has stolen the member name Gumbo, sooo I shall remain old.gumbo, so there!

Oh and it might serve me right for not sorting out the whole, membership thing too.

 

[JohnyWishbone]

it's sickening to see the law support scummers like that, how can he have the right to do such a thing. Its a mockery of a sham I tell ya.

Ive also heard of robbers suing victims after cutting themselves on windows etc. My good friend who is a copper advised me that if ever confronted and you have a go, knock the bastard out, drag him upstairs and leave him at the bedroom door or summik. They take an even dimmer view of them that way.

I fear, If i found some one in our house, robbing or planning to do harm to my family I would not be able to hold back with my baseball bat. And I would do time for defending hearth and home.

Oh Yes, and I bet coppers are equally outraged and frustrated at these scummers getting away with it with a nominal fine (which we pay because they are all on benefits anyway) or a light sentance where they learn more and better ways to break the law.

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by stu


And people would say the same thing when you go down for manslaughter

Fair enough. If I have to. As long as the shitebag's dead, I'll live with it.

 

[FatBusinessman]

Originally posted by old.gumbo
And you mean to say you can shoot dogs who trespass provided you have a warning sign up?, How are the dogs meant to read the sign?

No, I mean you can get sued if your dog attacks an intruder unless you have a sign saying "Beware of the dog". I think.

 

[Gumbo]

Originally posted by fatbusinessman

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by old.gumbo
And you mean to say you can shoot dogs who trespass provided you have a warning sign up?, How are the dogs meant to read the sign?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I mean you can get sued if your dog attacks an intruder unless you have a sign saying "Beware of the dog". I think.

methinks you missed my pathetic attempt at humour, I shall try harder next time.

 

[Sar]

Gut them like a pig, then tell the police they slipped

 

[FatBusinessman]

Originally posted by old.gumbo
methinks you missed my pathetic attempt at humour, I shall try harder next time.

Ah, oops.

*gets confused*

*goes around shooting dogs*

*gets arrested*

 

[stu]

I think you're all missing a pretty important point.

Shooting an unarmed person running away in the back with a shotgun is not, in any way shape or form, defending yourself, your home, your children, your family, or anything else.

If someone attacks you, intimidates you or threatens you in your home, you have a pretty good case for self-defence (provided you don't go too mental).

It comes down to a simple premise really. Either you believe in law enforcement, or you think the public should enforce the law (ie anarchy).

 

[Embattle]

I believe it was OTT but I'm not in his position, farmer, or would I like to be.

Either you believe in law enforcement, or you think the public should enforce the law (ie anarchy).

I believe in law enforcement to a point.

 

[Gumbo]

Originally posted by stu
Shooting an unarmed person running away in the back with a shotgun is not, in any way shape or form, defending yourself, your home, your children, your family, or anything else.

In the Tony Martin case, both burglars were shot inside the house and then fled.

The prosecution beat the self defence argument, by saying that Tony Martin was lying in ambush waiting for them, and then opened fire with no warning. As he opened fire inside his own house, imho, he should be allowed to lay whatever ambush he so chooses.

Unfortunately as the law stands you can't, but laws get ammended, we can only hope this one does soon, and more of these thieving scum will meet there bloody end, instead of the ludicrously light sentences they get through our laughable judicial system. [/EndRant]

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by stu
I think you're all missing a pretty important point.

Shooting an unarmed person running away in the back with a shotgun is not, in any way shape or form, defending yourself, your home, your children, your family, or anything else.

If someone attacks you, intimidates you or threatens you in your home, you have a pretty good case for self-defence (provided you don't go too mental).

It comes down to a simple premise really. Either you believe in law enforcement, or you think the public should enforce the law (ie anarchy).

I think you're missing the point. We know the law pretty well. Many of us would like it changed though.

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by Wij


I think you're missing the point. We know the law pretty well. Many of us would like it changed though.

Trust me when I tell you, that you don't know the law half as well as Stu. Thankyou for your time

Doesn't the fact that this nutball farmer opened fire on a delivery van indicate that he was a gun-crazed nutter? Hello? He basically lay with his shotguns in his bed night in, and night out, waiting for the day that someone broke into his place.

Reasonable force. If you think it's ok to slaughter a person whom is UNARMED, and FLEEING in the name of self defence, then where do you draw the line?

Some pikey fucker serves you a dodgy pint of beer - man, he's ripping me off! Must defend my honor! *Stab barkeep in back with spear*

 

[Durzel]

One thing for sure, you'd never get a dodgy head on a beer any more after that.

Not that I would personally anyway, given I'm a cider drinking lamer.

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by Perplex


Trust me when I tell you, that you don't know the law half as well as Stu. Thankyou for your time

Never said I did Perp. Just enought to know that Martin probably broke the law.

And all that bollox about them fleeing at the time. That's just the prosecution's case. He shot em in the back. That's all you actually know. It's no use trying to paint an emotional picture of their tragic demise. You weren't there.

I couldn't give a crap if he was a bit nutty. They were there to rob his house and the police were never going to stop them. He did. If they hadn't broken in they would be alive and well today... Robbing some other poor fucker probably.

 

[kanonfodda]

Originally posted by Wij


And all that bollox about them fleeing at the time. That's just the prosecution's case. He shot em in the back. That's all you actually know. It's no use trying to paint an emotional picture of their tragic demise. You weren't there.

If he shot them in the back, then they were not attacking him at the time, therefore, he already had the upper hand. Kind of points to the fact that they were either:
a) running away.
or
b) not aware of his presence

In either case, he was not acting in 'Self Defence'

Although I agree that the little buggers should be strung up, you have to accept that if you kill someone, you will be punished.

I also agree that their sentences were pathetic.

 

[Wij]

Yeh - that's what I said You expect to get punished for that. I wish he hadn't tho. If someone broke into my house I'd want to have the right to chop them in half with an A-Team style home made device.

In case you were wondering, I have a few gripes with burglars.

 

[kanonfodda]

You and me both mate, got burgled a couple of years ago.

They took the contents of my living room (electrical equipment wise), loaded it into meh car, and nicked that as well.

I would love to have woken up, but if I can sleep through a hurricane, a couple of bastards in meh house ain't gonna wake me.

I agree that it would be nice to beat the crap out of the little buggers, but at the end of the day it is counter productive

 

[Munkey-]

i hate burglars meself. They were why we decided to leave this country last time. and now barly 4 months ago my sister got burgled 3 times in arow within a month.

bastards took their brand new digital camera with their wedding on it (we couldnt make it as we moved out here) so thats a memory lost forever

bastards took all their jewelry including an antique nursing buckle that she had only just got 2 weeks ago as a birthday present and to celebrate her newly made status as a nurse.

bastards THEN took her video, TV, DVD's, music. etc.

right fucking bastards. My sister had collected all that stuff since she was about 17 and she barley earns enough to eat each week

 

[Shocko]

I think the solution, is to stay at home all day, and go to bed at 4am every night