Buffs on chanter pets...

[curou]

Im wondering if all buffs makes a pet tank better?

fx At fins should you give pet all 8 buffs? Haste-Acuity-d/q-base Str-base Dex?

imo those 5 buffs doesnt make pet tank better.

Some say if you give pet all 8 buffs it will tank better.

What is you opinion on that?

 

[Ravenbourne]

Buffs increase AF as far as i know, wont attack faster or harder

 

[curou]

hmm, yea d/q and base dex might increase AF a little, cuz of the dex, but surely Haste-Acuity-str cant help on the AF or?

and imo it will not be much AF that the d/q and base dex increases, not compared to what those buffs could do on chars

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

I did some extensive test a patch or two ago. Came to this conclusion:-

All base buffs (st, dex, af, con), str/con and dex/qui specs increase pet AF, those are what you need.

Its my guess that the pet doesnt have these stats (str,dex,con) so mythic made a naughtly little fudge and just decided to make them increase pet AF... and thus focus abusing was born.

Haste has no affect on pet AF, I *think* it increases the pet attack speed, though I have no statistical evidence to back this up. This would only be of use for attempting to get aggro on a pet once a mob has gone for a player, so its not much use.

I have no idea if aquity does anything for caster pets, it doesnt have any effect on ally/compatriot that i know.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by curou

and imo it will not be much AF that the d/q and base dex increases, not compared to what those buffs could do on chars

oh it is, its bucket loads. dex = AF 1 point of delve for 1 point.

A base dex buff is as good as a base con buff on pet.
A dex/qui is as good as a str/con on pet.
etc.

Players can only get one AF buff. Pets can get all 6 stacking and be many times stronger than the best hero.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

oh and if you can putup with the annoying HoTs that it dishes out, then ally > compatriot, doesnt seem right seeing as ally = healer and compatriot = tank, but do the tests and youll find that ally has better AF to start with.

 

[curou]

ok thx mate

 

[old.Garax]

Originally posted by boni_ofdavoid
oh and if you can putup with the annoying HoTs that it dishes out, then ally > compatriot, doesnt seem right seeing as ally = healer and compatriot = tank, but do the tests and youll find that ally has better AF to start with.

I'm guessing as you can buff the ally with base AF, whereas the compatriot has it's own AF buff that doesn't stack.

 

[jaapi]

I play enchantment chanter and from experience i can tell that with base dex and haste pet does attack faster than with just my own dex/qui, but dunno if it hits any harder.

 

[Arnor]

not af, its absorb that increases afaik

 

[Shrye]

Any empiric data on this, or just one of those "trust me" thingies? Sounds too "good" to be true, that dex should actually help increasing absorb ratings... *sigh*

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by Shrye
Any empiric data on this, or just one of those "trust me" thingies? Sounds too "good" to be true, that dex should actually help increasing absorb ratings... *sigh*

I saw all the emprical data with my own eyes, i dont have a link, but if you dont trust me go try it out.. all you need is a druid and a manachanter, get the druid to buff the pet in different ways, put pet on passive and see howmuch the druid can hit for in a duel...

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by Arnor
not af, its absorb that increases afaik

could be right, i wouldnt know how to tell the difference, i just see buff goes on pet takes x amount less damage when hit Is that absorb or af? How could i tell the difference?

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by old.Garax
I'm guessing as you can buff the ally with base AF, whereas the compatriot has it's own AF buff that doesn't stack.

Even compatriot with its own af buff was still weaker than an ubuffed ally.

-- epical data follow :-

10 hits with lvl 50 druid (buffed with yellows + base) using lost seed quest blunt dealth 30-40 points of damage to a freshly cast ally.

10 hits in same duel to a fresh compatriot that had been given time to buff, every hit well over 40 dmg, most 45+.

 

[OldDruid]

>>Even compatriot with its own af buff was still weaker than an ubuffed ally.

-- epical data follow :-

10 hits with lvl 50 druid (buffed with yellows + base) using lost seed quest blunt dealth 30-40 points of damage to a freshly cast ally.

10 hits in same duel to a fresh compatriot that had been given time to buff, every hit well over 40 dmg, most 45+.<<

That is confusing weakness for armour vulnerability (some armour is weak or neutral to crush, for example, while others are resistant) and is no indicator of actual hitpoints the pet has.

I have found that the Compatriot can actually soak up a load more damage than the Ally can, against every mob I have used it against. It is a lot less stressful healing a Compatriot compared to an Ally, as the Ally can go down so fast compared to the Compatriot.

Mass pulls of green mobs, farming cash, the Compatriot can easily survive, that would consistently kill the Ally (or result in massive amounts of healing required). I have found this time and time again in testing.

 

[VodkaFairy]

if you duel a buffed pet you won't miss it often, but you will just hit for low damage

which means absorb is raised and not AF :x

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by OldDruid

That is confusing weakness for armour vulnerability (some armour is weak or neutral to crush, for example, while others are resistant) and is no indicator of actual hitpoints the pet has.

I have found that the Compatriot can actually soak up a load more damage than the Ally can, against every mob I have used it against. It is a lot less stressful healing a Compatriot compared to an Ally, as the Ally can go down so fast compared to the Compatriot.

Mass pulls of green mobs, farming cash, the Compatriot can easily survive, that would consistently kill the Ally (or result in massive amounts of healing required). I have found this time and time again in testing.

Amour vunerability, nope, Ive done this test with all damage types.

The compatriot is harder to heal as it takes more damage. In ALL situations. What is important in focus pulling sucessfully are two things:-

a). How much damage pet deals / time.
b). How much damage pet takes / time.

Perhaps you could suggest to me what type of 'testing' you have done? I can pull a huge number of greens, in fact I have never found a spawn large enough to endager the pet. Duel the pet and you can see the results for yourself.

Heres an example of my best results focus pulling with ally:-

lvl 50 chanter + lvl 50 druid (only 39 nurture spec). Can pull:-

10+ warshades.
3 cave drifters.
1 Umihar Lairmaster \o/.

 

[Arnor]

a). How much damage pet deals / time.


umm, huh?

fds+pbaoe=dmg, pet hitting for fuck all anyways

 

[tildson]

Compatriot should be better for soloing due to self-AF buff, Ally does heal pretty good if you get in trouble sometimes

The Ally is better if you can buff him with AF-buff, much higher than the compatriot's.

I know that buffing pets with CON, raises the pet's Absorbation - not hits! So i usually buff AF, con & str/con on Ally.

 

[liloe]

I think it was the hunter TL who wrote something about the pet str/con buff. He said that mob is considered differently and has no stats, so str/con buff for hunter pet means increased dmg and increased hits(or absorb?).

 

[OldDruid]

>>umm, huh?

fds+pbaoe=dmg, pet hitting for fuck all anyways<<

Arnor has got it right.

Compatriot has more survivability due to having the most hitpoints. I have been focus pulling with an Enchanter, from the day they made it work, starting on Pendragon.

I have ALWAYS found the Compatriot to be tougher in every situation, except when the Ally was evading properly, and wasn't taking the damage hardly at all (it was useless for focus pulling because of that then, by the way).

Apart from Mana Chanters, I also have Enchantment Chanters. I always solo with a Compatriot (as well as group) rather than an Ally (except as stated above, when they fixed the Ally, and it was evading beautifully, and working as it should have. When they broke it again, I quickly had to revert to the Compatriot), because the Ally doesn't take nearly the punishment.

In countless sessions focus pulling on Fins, where Chanters used to take it in turns having sessions pulling, those that arrived using Ally's, very quickly stopped using them and started using Compatriots instead, when they saw with their own eyes how well the Compatriot held up.

Sorry, you are looking at the whole thing from the wrong angle (it isn't uncommon, the number of Cabbies in Alb that use the Emerald Sim Focus pulling instead of the Amber Sim is typical of this as well), and it is Arnor that is looking at it from the right angle.

There is a very easy place for you to try and compare them. The rocot room above the Cambions in DF. Try pulling the whole, fully repopped room with your Ally. Solo.

I have done this successfully many times with the Compatriot, and I've never managed it once with an Ally yet. I have tried too.

I'll send flowers to your funeral, honest.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by Arnor
a). How much damage pet deals / time.


umm, huh?

fds+pbaoe=dmg, pet hitting for fuck all anyways

What I meant was that the pet deals damage via its shields, and increasing this is good (shorter battles, more aggro on mob).

There are a number of ways to increase this damage.

I didnt mean pet was hitting , rofl, my pet doesnt ever hit anything

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by OldDruid
[B
Compatriot has more survivability due to having the most hitpoints. I have been focus pulling with an Enchanter, from the day they made it work, starting on Pendragon.

I have ALWAYS found the Compatriot to be tougher in every situation, except when the Ally was evading properly, and wasn't taking the damage hardly at all (it was useless for focus pulling because of that then, by the way).

Apart from Mana Chanters, I also have Enchantment Chanters. I always solo with a Compatriot (as well as group) rather than an Ally (except as stated above, when they fixed the Ally, and it was evading beautifully, and working as it should have. When they broke it again, I quickly had to revert to the Compatriot), because the Ally doesn't take nearly the punishment.

In countless sessions focus pulling on Fins, where Chanters used to take it in turns having sessions pulling, those that arrived using Ally's, very quickly stopped using them and started using Compatriots instead, when they saw with their own eyes how well the Compatriot held up.

Sorry, you are looking at the whole thing from the wrong angle (it isn't uncommon, the number of Cabbies in Alb that use the Emerald Sim Focus pulling instead of the Amber Sim is typical of this as well), and it is Arnor that is looking at it from the right angle.

There is a very easy place for you to try and compare them. The rocot room above the Cambions in DF. Try pulling the whole, fully repopped room with your Ally. Solo.

I have done this successfully many times with the Compatriot, and I've never managed it once with an Ally yet. I have tried too.

I'll send flowers to your funeral, honest. [/B]

ally > compatriot because ally takes less damage. The only time compatriot would be better *possibly* is when soloing, because it has more hps, but its absorb still sucks im comparison. Why I would want to solo with a manachanter is beyond me, they do so much better with buffs

I leveled my chanter to 50 using compatriot, then I switched to ally, i have lots of experience with both and claim the opposite of what you say. Now if youll run the tests yourself and tell me that im wrong, well thats one thing, but your 'vauge feelings' are wrong, badly buffed pets, lowbie chanters etc at fins I think . Absorb is everything when pulling large mobs, hit points dont matter, thats just governs the range of hit points that you can keep the pet between, how hard it is to heal a pet and keep it alive is governed by how much damage the pet takes. This is important for any mob above yellow con that u cant just pb in 2 hits (like your rocot room..).

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by OldDruid
[BSorry, you are looking at the whole thing from the wrong angle (it isn't uncommon, the number of Cabbies in Alb that use the Emerald Sim Focus pulling instead of the Amber Sim is typical of this as well), and it is Arnor that is looking at it from the right angle. [/B]

no m8, you are

And looking for support from Arnor, lol, he missed my point that shield damage is a major factor when pulling lvl 80+ mobs, and you can improve your focusing by increasing it

What is important is how fast pet takes damage, how much damage is dealt to the pet over time. Its this damage that your healers have to work against, that damage that causes aggro on healers or makes them go OOM. If your healing over time > mob damage over time then you can keep the pet up, thats what governs when you die when pulling 10+ redcons, and thats why ally is better when pulling large mobs.

Hit points just govern the range that the pets health must be in. Its a bit smaller with an ally, but it goes down slower. With really big pulls this is what makes the difference. Ill concede that when soloing greens with no buffs compatriont *might* be better (even with its crappier absorb) due to having more hitpoints, but you arent really focusing you are just pulling mobs and letting the pet drop. 2pbs finish the roccots with nps, dont even need to turn focus on...

Now as to your claim about the fins etc, I claim the opposite. I did level with my chanter using compatriot, for 50 levels I wasted my time with him, then I did the tests, then I used ally and I have never looked back. My results speak for themselves, and my tests are FACT, not the vauge feelings of some under level chanters and people not buffing properly.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

annoying double post kind of , ah well if its worth saying once...

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

empirical data alert!

Ok, found yellow named mob near AF (Anhlaw).

Buffed ally with all druid buffs (39+13+ma3buffs from lvl 50 druid).
Sent ally in on passive.
Ally lasted 260 seconds.

Repetad test on same mob with compatriot.
Compatriot lasted 220 seconds.

repeated test once only.

Ally lasted 40 seconds longer, and this is with lower hitpoints

(Ive done this test before on a number of mobs, but its nice to have an up to date one for reference, so please dont tell me I have fluked it through some strange combo of mob/pet resists).

 

[eneq]

Well as i c it u both are right but in different situations really.

The compatriot is better when pulling massive mobs and the ally when you pulling not so many.

The compatriot have more HP and thus survives longer without healing.
The ally is a biatch when it comes to pulling sometimes, stopping and buffing all the time in middle of pulls...

Basically ally = Compatriot really.

I have never had any problems with either really. BUT pulling with a unbuffed Ally is almost useless.

BTW the compatriot should b better cause it have lower AF basically...

The Damage shields give more damage to mobs you hardet pet getting hit..
So less damage to pet less damage to mob = less aggro...

The shields 33.9 dps is based on how hard the mob hits pet.
Thats why reds/purple goes down as fast as yellows etc etc when fighting.

So if a ally take takes lesser damage it also gives out lesser damage.
Thus the Compatriot better WHEN u want to take aggro fast so the other PBAOE can nuka asap

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

OMG MORE EPIRICAL DATA ALERT!11111111

unbuffed ally vs 50 druid (using a red lady blade drop, low quality, only str/con buff on druid). *note slash damage test, last one was crush, just in case you still think that its todo with pet vunerablity to crush or something.

druid dealt 15-20 points of damage over 25blows.

unbuffed compatriot vs 50 druid

druid dealt 20-25 points of damage over 25blows.


Now that shows that the absorb on an ubuffed ally > compatriont. Now what happens with base AF buff?

compatriot
-> same result. ally has alredy got a crap af buff., hahah, druid owns for 20-25 points of damage.

ally
-> ally gets af buf, yum, stupid druid only deals 13-18 points of damage.


our conclusion is:-

compatriot has the worst absorb
ally has better absorb
ally with af buff is really kicking the hell out of silly compatriots.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by eneq


So if a ally take takes lesser damage it also gives out lesser damage.

No, damage is proportional to damage dealt, not recieved. Its does not depend on damage recieved. you could use underhill friend and do the same damage.

Run the test with a druid again... Any combo of buffs or pets will not change the damage mr druid recieves from hitting the pet with focus up.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by eneq

The compatriot have more HP and thus survives longer without healing.

Empirical data would suggests that this is not true of yellow cons or above, probably not true of blue either. might be true of rocots or greys