Buffbotting

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by Runolaz
The first think that come to my mind is that you have the knowledge of a kid.

If you have read any history at all regarding Tanks or similiar powerfull units you will now that they have weaknesses too, specially when on it's own. In most games you will find the same functions. I like to compare a tank in daoc with a tank in a modern army. A Tank is weak on the defense if it does not have the support units, in real life that is aircover and infantry on the ground.

A tank that goes alone in the frontier is weak to ranged attack and hidden attacks, and that is IMO just the way it should be. A figth between a tank and an assassin is about an assassin attacking the Tank when it is on its weakest, thus giving the assassin the edge. In my book going toe-to-toe would be if the assassin popps out of stealth giving both the same advantage. Furhermore an assassin has to melee to kill so I fail to see the logic of what your saying. Any buffed melee char will win over a unbuffed char (given same skills)...just the way it should be. Tanks are ultimate melee in grp's, not when alone...get that into your head. I kill tanks both unbuffed and buffed. It's all about using the rigth timing, poison, purge and know when to back off. Nothing is more fun than landing a stun just about the time b4 they start spamming IP lol.

So my friend I think its you that need to start thinking b4 you start printing out of your arse.

Oh dear...and there I was thinking the logic was quite clear. Its really quite simple. If assassins were supposed to be the melee equal of tanks, they would win in even fights (i.e. both buffed or both unbuffed) around 50% of the time - the outcome purely decided on tactics. But the simple fact is they don't - in an even fight the tank will win significantly more often. This isn't because tanks are more skillful players (most of us aren't ), but simply because all things being equal the tank will win the melee fight more often. Thats how it is meant to be. Assassins are NOT meant to defeat tanks very often in 1v1 melee. The whole point of buffbots is that they create IMBALANCE in the status quo. That is the problem. But anyways, as someone said earlier the whole buffbot thing has been done to death. And we all know buffbots are here to stay. So I'll not bang my head against this particular brick wall anymore

Oh and as for my knowledge being that of a kid. You base this on the fact that you have read (and you believe that I haven't) history books about modern warfare and that my arguments don't fit in with your assumptions. That really is a very silly conclusion to draw, imho of course

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by bracken_woodman
Oh dear...and there I was thinking the logic was quite clear. Its really quite simple. If assassins were supposed to be the melee equal of tanks, they would win in even fights (i.e. both buffed or both unbuffed) around 50% of the time - the outcome purely decided on tactics. But the simple fact is they don't - in an even fight the tank will win significantly more often.

If I get the jump on a Tank unbuffed I will win about 70%+ of the time. As it is now Assassins CAN take and SHOULD be able to take out Tanks if they get the element of surprise. Some Classes like Merc/Blademaster/Friar/Champoins/Zerkers are a different matter, but to me it's more about realmrank on those.

Originally posted by bracken_woodman

This isn't because tanks are more skillful players (most of us aren't ), but simply because all things being equal the tank will win the melee fight more often. Thats how it is meant to be. Assassins are NOT meant to defeat tanks very often in 1v1 melee.

Well...WAKE up, cuz they do. You don't need a buffbot to beat tanks 1 vs 1. How would you know what assassins should be albe to or not? Where do you get that idea from?

Originally posted by bracken_woodman
Oh and as for my knowledge being that of a kid. You base this on the fact that you have read (and you believe that I haven't) history books about modern warfare and that my arguments don't fit in with your assumptions. That really is a very silly conclusion to draw, imho of course

Belive it or not you only need to read about David and Goliath to grasp what I'm trying to tell you. Look at any game design and you will find similarities. This is about you think you know how the game mechanics work and how they are intended to work. When I hear stuff like that I'm quick to draw my conclutions. For the matter plz find me one line from Mythic stating that assassisn should not be able to rip tanks apart IF they get the jump on them. I can't find anything about it, and as it is I can take out Tanks unbuffed, and I think that pretty much sums it up what Mythic has in mind.

As for buffbotts this is an endless discution, and I don't see the point of beating a dead horse.

 

[jox]

...

Originally posted by belth
Thing is, when one player quits due to Mythic's favoring of buffbots, another gets a second (or third account in the case of most SBs, for Haste buff )

Mythic sure likes their Dark Age of Buff-a-bot.

Nonsens, its perhaps 3-4 sbs on Ex that have a second bot. And I have decided to not level a haster...I think I will manage whitout it.

 

[Tranquil-]

LOL, there's actually as many as 3-4 SB's that have 2 buffbots?

 

[Carlos Bananos]

I have a buffbot, im an over powered assasin.



D:

i love it.

 

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by Runolaz

Well...WAKE up, cuz they do. You don't need a buffbot to beat tanks 1 vs 1. How would you know what assassins should be albe to or not? Where do you get that idea from?

From the simple fact that any decent tank just won't lose 1v1 with an assassin if they are both unbuffed or both buffed. Anyways, you're right - no point in arguing about it anymore . Hope to meet you some time when we're both unbuffed and wandering solo

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by bracken_woodman
From the simple fact that any decent tank just won't lose 1v1 with an assassin if they are both unbuffed or both buffed. Anyways, you're right - no point in arguing about it anymore . Hope to meet you some time when we're both unbuffed and wandering solo

Any decent tank wandering off on its own is a target for both unbuffed an buffed assassins. In fact your class the Armsman and specially those polearms is one of my "bread and butter" for solo RvR. The hardest Alb chars for me as a SB (SZ) to take out are Friar's and Merc. On those I usually pay close attention to what RR they are. I always use snare so if things don't go myway have the option to make a run for it.

I will give you an example:

Mage > Tank if they meet at range.
Mage < Tank if the Tanks gets the elment of surprise.

Tank > Assassin if they meet in normal melee
Tank < Assassin if the assassin get's the element of surprise.

There are many ways for an assassin to kill Tanks and kiting is one of them. Mosly use by CB or 5-Specced SB. A SZ like me will on the otherhand stay in for the melee and just w8 for that stun from evade chain to land. I normaly land 400-600 of dmg b4 most Tanks even engade in combat, and addition I land 3 poisons so that IMHO gives me an edge. At the same time I have Purge rdy if I get stunned, if not well I just see how it goes .

 

[Avena]

Originally posted by Falcore
simple statement,

a assassin, not matter how well buffed it is, should simply NOT be able to kill a heavy tank, the class is NOT designed to, and tbh, killl a heavy tank pretty easily.

Are you telling a unbuffed TANK should win a fully buffed sb/ns/infil? were do you get that idea? it's utter BS and tanks would win much more if parry/block wasn't broken in rvr, fix that and then see how things are doing...

 

[Carlos Bananos]

imo, the class that uses most of it's abilities to the max should win.

the class with the higher RR, should have an advantage (which they do so np).


lone unbuffed rr2 shadowblades dont go round tanking hero's, thats just rumours.

plz whine from your OWN experiences and not what you read on IGWhine.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by svartmetall
Buffbots are fucking lame.

People who use buffbots are fucking lame; there's no difference between "winning" a CS game by using a wallhack and "winning" a DAOC encounter by using a buffbot, might as well hold up a big neon sign saying "I'm lame and have to use a buffbot to win".

End of story.

Its almost as bad as nagging dickheads that incessantly whine about something because they constantly get owned by people with and without buffs, but it stirs people up more when they happen to have buffs.

When will you people get it through your thick heads that bots are a part of the game, some are in grps some are not, Some heal, some buff, some give speed some give PBT some do DMG adds, Mythic exacerbated the alb buff bot situation by rendering Cleric practically useless as anything other than healer.

As for the other realms I dont know why you have them. I dont need a buff bot to get RP's the fact that I have a cleric that can do Heals and Buff is niether here nor there.

There is a massive differance between CS with Hacks and DAOC with a bot if you cant see that, then tough. Thats your problem not mine.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by bloggs
also imo buffbots originally started because of lame attitudes like those idiots that hack on Counter Strike....they couldnt play people on normal terms because they r shit and have low lvls of skill.....but now that LOADS of people have buffbots perhaps it is ok, simply to b on par with evreyone else.

Lol, you are joking arnt you? if not you need therapy.

Buffbots were started because of lame antics? *Sigh*

You forgot that old chesnut, "people changed Cleric into Buffbots because Mythic screwed them over....

So when you call people lame for having a buff bot think about time people put into Clerics leveling them only to have them nerfed...wait till it happens to you....I dont think any class perhaps with the exception of scouts that have had massive defections to other classes due to what Mythic has done to them...

 

[Avena]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
imo, the class that uses most of it's abilities to the max should win.

the class with the higher RR, should have an advantage (which they do so np).


lone unbuffed rr2 shadowblades dont go round tanking hero's, thats just rumours.

plz whine from your OWN experiences and not what you read on IGWhine.

So true

 

[Hulbur]

Originally posted by svartmetall
Buffbots are fucking lame.

People who use buffbots are fucking lame; there's no difference between "winning" a CS game by using a wallhack and "winning" a DAOC encounter by using a buffbot, might as well hold up a big neon sign saying "I'm lame and have to use a buffbot to win".

End of story.

In the face of such constructive and persuasive arguments, I think we all need to just give up and agree - dont you?

 

[fanaticalace]

I wish there was a server where buffbots were explicitly forbidden to be used! Seems most people dont have a problem with them... but I do. I think they ruin the game - they certainly disrupts the balance of the classes and their niches in a group in any case. The different classes and their abilities where not designed with buffbots in mind; using bots make many abilities redundant =/
When the game has gotten to a point where people automatically asume that the shaman traveling with me is a bot and message me for a rez... then something is wrong...
Or worse - when a healer/shaman cant get a group cause people are using their buffbots and therefore dont need a healer/shamman.
Its a shame some (most? ) people seem to play only to "win"! Give us a roleplay server!!

 

[greenfingers]

Buffbot's are allowed, nothing to do about it

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by quinthar
Lol, you are joking arnt you? if not you need therapy.

Buffbots were started because of lame antics? *Sigh*

You forgot that old chesnut, "people changed Cleric into Buffbots because Mythic screwed them over....

So when you call people lame for having a buff bot think about time people put into Clerics leveling them only to have them nerfed...wait till it happens to you....I dont think any class perhaps with the exception of scouts that have had massive defections to other classes due to what Mythic has done to them...

That might explain part of the albion buffbots issue but not the midgar ones...........

 

[belth]

Middie one is easily explained, DOUBLEFROST&ENDREGEN4TEHWIN!!!1!!!1111