Buffbots'n'camping

[pudzy]

Originally posted by old.Iunliten

I probably would... But amazingly so far in hibernia I haven't seen a single buffbot so far(wouldn't wanna ruin things by brining one).

[/B]

Cos most of their classes have buffing ability, I see bards and druids everywhere in emain on their zerges, they have enough buffs for all, even their little dwarven ns's, unlike midguard with about 5 seers to entire emain.

 

[Shike]

yip yip I totally agree with Liste here, make them ranged, that would solve it in a simple way and still not make buffs loose its function.

Only ones that will suffer are the poor classes that actually buff people, ghaa lost speed fellas, ghaa lost buffs too, buffer goes nuts and cries and recast buffs

Buffs should be groupbased, groupcasted and on range aswell imo. That way it'd be more simple for buffers, buffbots are killable and probably nearly free RP's for stealthers, I mean, who can play 2 chars at the same time in an effiecent way?

I'd like to see the face of the one using a buffbot when he realizes his buffbot just got PA'd from 2 stealthers

But, as we all know, buffbots drags in more money to Mythic and I really really doubt they will do anything about this since they have known about this problem for a long time now. The ones using buffbots are happy with that and those that cant afford a 2nd PC for one on a 2nd account are unhappy, ofc I understand that, no need to dig further into it.

Buffbots are here, they wont go away no matter how much people whine about it aslong as its a matter of hard cash.

Those that use buffbots will only get the big bad nerfbat in the forehead as time goes by due to peoples whine about overpowered classes when the real problem is bots and not a balancesissue. The ones that benefit most to bots are assassins, with 300+ dex and high qui+dodger 3 they tank pretty well (not to mention the boost to HP's). Evade evade evade evade....... Ofc assassins will be nerfed and an unbalanced class in the end because of this I think.

Mythic have shown what happens when a class is considered overpowered and people whine enough about it. Look at archers, enuff said. It will probably end up in a sad mess of unbalanced classes in the end and people will leave Daoc because of it

hooray for camo btw!

 

[old.Trine Aquavit]

Of course, Mythic could fix buffs so that buff-bots are redundant (i.e. by turning them into chants with range), but why would they want to? I'll bet the number of people who've quit purely because of the prevalence of buff-bots is nowhere close to the number of second accounts that have been opened to provide people with buff-bots. By treating buff-bots as a cheat/exploit they would do themselves out of some tasty income.

Ultimately, though, buff-bots aren't really the problem - the buffs themselves are. Buff-bots are just the players exploiting the game to their advantage.I'd actually be in favour of removing buffs pretty much entirely from the game. My reasoning:

1) Buffing is not fun - it's annoying. Conc buffs aren't too bad (though it is a pain to reapply them after a death/LD/relog), and the conc interface is a pain to use. Timed buffs are just annoying. The only fun anyone has from buffing is from the pleasure of helping out a young realm-mate, and that is often offset by the annoyance of the "buff plz" beggar. Buffing is a chore and not something you want to play your class for.

2) If they removed buffs they'd have to do something about regeneration rates in general. They're obviously not against people regenerating HP/Power quickly in down-time otherwise they wouldn't have put in regen buffs, so why not just cut the crap and give everyone hi quality regen at all levels. Down-time caused by regen is a bad thing. Fixing regen rates generally would also help the balance with group vs solo as more classes would be solo-viable.

3) If they removed buffs they'd have to properly sort out the classes that have been demoted to buff-bot status. The last balance fix for the Shaman was to give them yet another buff (endurance regen). Sure, Shaman is a support character but FFS give them something to do as active support, not just another buff (see 1). End regen shouldn't have been added at all (to any realm) - perma-sprinting is a bit fucked up, imo. If they had to buff endurance it should have been a buff that increased max endurance, not endurance regen.

4) Buff spells are lazy spells: easy to implement for the developers and a bit too easy to add without much thought to the consequences. I'd rather have one well designed tactical spell than 10 braindead buffs.

5) Buffs are unbalacing, and make it much harder to balance the game properly. Would there be as many calls for 'nerf stealther' if battles were always fought against unbuffed stealthers?

Overall, I reckon the game would be better if buffs were restricted to:

a) Group chants (speed, damage add, heal, pbt, etc), where there's a tactical choice as to what to use (or whether to use it).

b) Self buffs (to help balance a classes major weaknesses)

c) Short duration, tactical buffs that produce a significant effect but can't be used without consequence. E.g. Healer Celerity: short range, short duration buff with large impact (+20% haste). The Healer has to decide whether to use Celerity, heal or use crowd control - it become a tactical battle decision. Another example is blade turn. The caster has to decide whether to use blade turn or something else. Again, it's a tactical decision.

Food for thought for the designers of DAOC II, perhaps?

 

[old.Thiralith]

"Albs complaining in IRC we're camping amgE>apkE road cos theres SO MANY' sb's i hear it all day every day, stop complaining we had to put up with Niar for godknows how long"

Atleast I didn't have 5 other infs with me

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Also put limit on the number of hours a player can access his account each month, some players have so much time, they are exploiting the game by playing day and night and gaining a huge amount of realmskillpoints which is not fair towards others because they dont have the convience of a second ac... uhh i mean so much spare time!!!

 

[Azal]

You did it with style GM

 

[old.CorpseWhisperer]

Originally posted by Meatballs


right so you'll never accept buffs from a realm mate have i got that right?

Harhar. Me thinks there is no need to explain the difference between buffs from a realmmate and buffs from a realmmate also running a buffbot.

 

[Tiwaz]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
Also put limit on the number of hours a player can access his account each month, some players have so much time, they are exploiting the game by playing day and night and gaining a huge amount of realmskillpoints which is not fair towards others because they dont have the convience of a second ac... uhh i mean so much spare time!!!

LOL Now thats funny

How about dropping the horse routes? The opponents gets back far to fast, after i've killed them

I got a shammy alt myself (and it's on the same acount as my main char, so it's not very usefull as a buffbot ). Removing all buffs, as suggested by Trine, would almost be the same as deleting him, since i specced him mainly in aug.

Come on guys, I might be able to understand that you're against buffbots, but half the posts here actually complaining about buffs. Now that is whining at its worst

 

[old.Eynar_Vega]

Funny thing about all this, is that the people you see complaining the most are often the first ones to send you pm's for buffs...

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Tiwaz
How about dropping the horse routes? The opponents gets back far to fast, after i've killed them

No use, you can bind on the telepad.

 

[old.Eynar_Vega]

Originally posted by old.CorpseWhisperer


Harhar. Me thinks there is no need to explain the difference between buffs from a realmmate and buffs from a realmmate also running a buffbot.

There isn't? Let's put it this way then: let's say you've been running around in Emain with a couple of realm mates and on the next port the healer in your group says he's gotta run to the store quickly, and that he'll stay logged in and buff you first. Would this suddenly be allowed then? I really don't see point here, except for the usual /whine factor... :sleeping:

 

[old.Mu.]

Eek.

Trine.

I agree with everything you had to say, and I had no idea I cared either way on the issue of buffs.

Now that I think about it, I'd love to be able to do something a little more interesting than buffing, whilst retaining my role as a support class.

Plus there'd be no more norsemen running around with kobolds stuck to them. And no more kobolds left alone to examine the walls of certain keeps.

Seems like a win-win situation to me.

 

[old.Trine Aquavit]

Originally posted by Tiwaz
I got a shammy alt myself (and it's on the same acount as my main char, so it's not very usefull as a buffbot ). Removing all buffs, as suggested by Trine, would almost be the same as deleting him, since i specced him mainly in aug.

Come on guys, I might be able to understand that you're against buffbots, but half the posts here actually complaining about buffs. Now that is whining at its worst

To be fair, it was only my post

And I wasn't really whining, I was just trying to take a different slant on the issue. The normal assumption is that "buffs are a good thing for the game". I was just challenging that assumption. And I think I came up with some valid points - buffs, as they stand, generate some real design problems.

It certainly wasn't a cry for "Nerf all buffers!". The intention would be that the buffing classes would get an alternate set of tactical combat-time spells to replace those passive buffs. All just theorising, of course

 

[Tiwaz]

Originally posted by old.Trine Aquavit

And I think I came up with some valid points - buffs, as they stand, generate some real design problems.

You might be right, but I assume that buffs WAS a part of designing the 'balance' of the game.

Removing them at this state of the game, would certainly create even larger design problems. Getting the balance of the realm right (even remotely) would be a huge challenge imho.

 

[old.Patrick-S]

Originally posted by old.Sko

Never seen nightshade which looses less than five buffs upon death. But well, we know that hibs dont use buffbots

maybe cbecause a) you don't rvr enough? or b) you've never killed a nightshade? because i am never buffed when im solo of course i accept buffs when im in a group.. people dedicate there characters to be able to buff people and when people make buff bots it means there character is not as useful.. buff bots imo are lame it gives you an unfair advantage therefore dont care what you try and excuse it with but its against the games mechanics or so it seems to me now flame away with how great buffbots are and give some other lame excuses

 

[Cavex ElSaviour]

OMG ppl are whining about buff bots now??????? damn, some ppl are sad.

 

[Damon_D]

Yep.

 

[old.Patrick-S]

you pay an extra £6 a month and people whining is sad?

 

[Fafnir]

I'm just happy when i get some buffs, since i never find any groups. And if i had the cash to buy a second comp and a new account i would do it, then the problem with finding groups would be gone since i could start to lvl a bit faster. But what can piss me off with buffbots is that they buffed up person kills everything in sight grey to blue con just for the fun.

 

[necroscope]

If that buffed up person killing greys to blue con...it has nothing to do with buffbots/buffs....just a lame person ganking greys

 

[Graknak]

First you whine about smite, now you whine about buffs, what next you gonna whine about healing?
Sjees get a life.

 

[poi]

Maybe if we could join a group in emain, we did not have to use buffbots to survive.
So when a stealther say LFG, invite them

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by old.Patrick-S

maybe cbecause a) you don't rvr enough?

Agreed. But uh, wait till december when i`ll have more time on my hands

or b) you've never killed a nightshade?

Must admit you cleaned floor with me twice.
2 hits of sword for 1 hit from gauche ... natural lurikeen quickness, eh ?

But on other occasions - in odins near bled, some day near emain apk, some day near silo you left a nice spam after death message.

because i am never buffed when im solo of course i accept buffs when im in a group.. people dedicate there characters to be able to buff people and when people make buff bots it means there character is not as useful.. buff bots imo are lame it gives you an unfair advantage therefore dont care what you try and excuse it with but its against the games mechanics or so it seems to me now flame away with how great buffbots are and give some other lame excuses

Really ?

 

[Arlone]

couldn't agree more with Trine. Obviously people use buffbots to gain an advantage (duh) but what if we all had buffbots? Would it then be a battle-of-the-bots?

People who have nothing against buffbots would prolly not like it if everyone had one - cause then they wouldn't have an advantage any longer.

'get your own buffbot then!!11'

..well, if I had a buffbot too you would no longer have an advantage, so then we could just nullify our buffs and the result of the fight would still be the same as if we were both buffed.

I admire players who kill my char 1on1 without using a buffbot. I have fun and I can applaud them with a smile on my face on IRC after. I have no respec for people winning a duel against me using buffbot ... they didn't win it - their buffbot did, they didn't play well - their buffbot did.

Solution for me?

I've stopped going to emain to try and solo anything. Obviously 99% of all soloers there use buffbots that are camped in the PK's 24/7.

Conclusion...

Mythic is really digging their own grave here. People who can't/won't use buffbots will get more and more annoyed with people using one and two things can happen from this:

1. Player without buffbot gets so annoyed with the advatages of buffbots that he quits. This will in time lead to a server only populated with people using buffbots so none really have an advantage any longer. Now they all quit cause they lack this advantage.

2. The player without a bot buys a new account and make a bot. But then chances are the other players with buffbots will be annoyed cause now they don't have an advantage anylonger so they might aswell quit .. can't expect them to win without buffbots can you?


Extreme examples but it proves a point.

rant

 

[pudzy]

Originally posted by gilthanis


And Hib DOES have its buff bots, just not as many as the other realms due to our smaller population.

lol, you manage to zerge just fine imo.

 

[Ottar]

Well, I have a buffbot (2 in fact) and I do camp milegates alot, so..

> can't expect them to win without buffbots can you?

Chances of fighting unbuffed against a buffed opponents are not good for most of the classes. Where these buffs come, is pretty much irrelevant. As I see it, buffbots aint the problem. Lack of buffers/conc is the problem. Buffbots are one possible solution and frankly, a somewhat inconvenient one.

> players with buffbots will be annoyed

Nah, be serious. Everybody got buffs then everybody is ok. Problem is - everbody doesn’t. So, if there’s lack of buffers, you make your own, that simple. In Midgard, shamen have been improved a bit but they are still very far from being a popular class. It’s getting better, slowly. There has been long periods of time when we had 2 shamen players active in RvR for the whole realm.

> I've stopped going to emain to try and solo anything.

Very wise that but is it connected to the buffbot theme? My guess would be, in peak zerg times there is enough bots camped at MPK to fully buff 6, maybe 8 chars. You die in Emain, good chances are you would have died without them bots too. Soloing anything unless you are a stealther is not very productive anyhow. Regardless if you have buffbot or not. In fact, bots are at their best effectiveness when used on groups (bot doing specline buffs and live healer/shaman doing baselines).

Ottar

 

[necroscope]

When Alchemy goes live we can all buff up , drink potions to get tougher , stronger , braver.......just like drinking in the local pub

 

[Arlone]

Originally posted by Ottar
Chances of fighting unbuffed against a buffed opponents are not good for most of the classes. Where these buffs come, is pretty much irrelevant. As I see it, buffbots aint the problem. Lack of buffers/conc is the problem. Buffbots are one possible solution and frankly, a somewhat inconvenient one.

Lack of buffers a problem? well if everyone was buffed, what would the point in buffs be? the only thing buffs bring to the game is an advantage for the buffed ones.

I'm not saying buffs are all bad. If we got an active cleric/friar in group we deserve some buffs as an extra boost to our group (since thats one of the few things a cleric can now bring to groups with smitenerf and so on). But camping a fecking extrachar in PK just to gain this advantage is .. well I think it sucks and I hope mythic does something to remedy it.

2 buffbots. Good for you ... uber, nerf, ego-boost?

 

[case-rigantis]

people who use buff bots for PvE : great good on you

People who use buff bots for RvR: Complete gimps who should be banned from the game..

the answer to needing buffs...get some friends..join a guild... you never NEED buffs they`re just nice to have.if you feel you do NEED buffs then see point 2 above ..G I M P

 

[old.Sko]

I use bot for PVE - enhance/smite/rejuv spec rocks
And on few occasions you can see him in emain, buffing our guildies and just random people whom i happened to target

And rule of thumb - you run solo - you should be buffed to the teeth, you grouped - relay on local cleric