Budget

[Chilly]

To be fair, as a highly skilled worker and someone who interviews people for my employer I wouldnt give the time of day to someone with a bullshit softy degree for one of the very very skilled and demanding jobs I'd be hiring for.

I think the market will sort the men from the boys here, but (probably) too much public money is spent on letting them make the mistake of studying for some bullshit degree in the first place.

HOWEVER, there are lots of advertising and pr firms who need these people. Those firms then service "real" companies selling bikes and welding gear and hats and stuff and who need high quality marketing and press services - those people arnt totally useless, they help the marketplace run more efficiently, at the end of the day.

 

[Gumbo]

Worth less, yes, worthless, no.

Nice. I think we're on the same page, I'm just a bit more vehement in my views and would like to see the waste tackled more aggressively.

 

[rynnor]

Back on the budget - one thing I didnt understand was why they didnt freeze benefits when they froze public workers pay - I thought it was meant to hurt everyone?

 

[Jeros]

I'm far more concerned about the type of degrees being studied rather than the absolute number; lack of hard science and engineering graduates is what really damages the economy (but that's also part of a wider problem in the UK that scientists and engineers aren't respected or represented at the highest levels of government or corporations.)

Agree with the respect and somewhat with the type of degrees thing, if someone can make good money from a "mickey mouse" degree, fairplay to them.

Some might say my friend who did graphic design did a useless degree, now she is a well paid graphic designer doing stuff the vast majority of people could not and was looking at getting her own home at the age of 22. Useless degree? I think not.

It does seem to be getting to a point now where when you say you are doing a degree in maths or physics you get labelled as "boring" or a "nerd". In reality the people studying those degrees may well help with cutting edge research and such, and you also need a really good working brain for it. When did being intelligent become a bad thing?

 

[Scouse]

Why aren't they? By definition, 50% of the population are above average intelligence. You can argue that degrees are "too easy", but I don't think its that big a problem (there's always postgrad to differentiate the crowd more)

My opinion is that "average" intelligence isn't actually that high. That's the reason why 50% of the population couldn't cope with degrees as they used to be.

After 4 years of Uni I was offered to study for my doctorate. Nowadays I wish I'd done it. However, at the time I was naieve - but I couldn't face even more time at Uni without any bloody cash.

50% of people can get degrees now because they're too bloody easy - so postgrad study is even more important to differentiate yourself.

Problem is, it's getting more and more expensive. If I'd done my degree, a masters or straight on into the doctorate in today's financial climate I could see me having £75k of debt when I came out the other side.


But I agree with this:

lack of hard science and engineering graduates is what really damages the economy (but that's also part of a wider problem in the UK that scientists and engineers aren't respected or represented at the highest levels of government or corporations.)

Science pays shit. A top level scientist can expect to earn about 50k the average is far less than that - and they have to watch ream after ream of business studies fucktards make that sort of salary in middle management, in jobs that don't really require braincells.

As far as I'm concerned, our educational and economic systems hold the brightest back. Which is a shame, because I think we need the brightest at the very top.

 

[Scouse]

HOWEVER, there are lots of advertising and pr firms who need these people. Those firms then service "real" companies selling bikes and welding gear and hats and stuff and who need high quality marketing and press services - those people arnt totally useless, they help the marketplace run more efficiently, at the end of the day.

Speaking as someone who's brother is CEO of an advertising firm and best mate is on the board of another, it's almost all utter bullshit and they're not worth the hewuge sums of money they make.

 

[Vae]

As far as I'm concerned, our educational and economic systems hold the brightest back. Which is a shame, because I think we need the brightest at the very top.

Unfortunately that is what comprehensive education does for you. When Labour managed to abolish most of the grammar schools you are now stuck with trying to teach an even wider ability range all together in one class.

So the people at either end of the ability spectrum are either held back or moved along too fast for them. This stops the brightest studying to their level of ability and also means you have a group at the other end who give up on education because they need a bit more time than most.

 

[DaGaffer]

50% of people can get degrees now because they're too bloody easy - so postgrad study is even more important to differentiate yourself.

But I don't think that's particularly new; I did my MSc precisely because I knew I was in packed market, and that was nearly twenty years ago. Its also normal. In countries that traditionally had a higher number of graduates (e.g. the US) an undergrad degree has long been regarded as a bare minimum. The UK has historically been more elitist about it, but that doesn't mean its right.

 

[Raven]

My previous career was accountancy based and I have done CIMA and I got paid well for what I did, the whole industry is chock full of soulless morons and it got to the point where I was physically bored, you know where you can just picture yourself setting fire to your desk and walking out. I got made redundant which was probably the best thing that ever happened to me and gave me time to evaluate things, I now get paid less but enjoy my job.

Enjoying what you do is far more important than a salary imo, I will never again do a job that I don't like just because it pays well. If you are coming home stressed then wtf is the point?

 

[Marc]

The increase of VAT from 17.5 per cent to 20 per cent raises £13.5 billion by 2014-15. But cuts to income tax, national insurance, corporation tax, and council tax cost £12.4 billion. Once all the changes are taken into consideration, tax changes contribute only £8.2 billion to the fiscal consolidation.

So that's clearly not about addressing the deficit, it's about redistributing the tax burden away from richer individuals and corporations and onto consumers, which hits the poorest hardest.

Well whoda thunk the tories would do something like that!

 

[Scouse]

In countries that traditionally had shit piss-easy degrees that were equivalent to a few a-levels (e.g. the US) an undergrad degree has long been regarded as a bare minimum.

There you go Gaff. Fixed it for ya


But yep. We're going US-Style in our education system. Which is shit IMHO

 

[Marc]

If you are coming home stressed then wtf is the point?

I hear this a lot from "management accountants". When the company you work for isnt doing to well, its your head on the chopping block. I work in practice and havent had a payrise for 2 years but im not complaining one iota because our firm is keeping its head above water and there are no planned redundancies which im thankful for.

 

[ECA]

Unfortunately that is what comprehensive education does for you. When Labour managed to abolish most of the grammar schools you are now stuck with trying to teach an even wider ability range all together in one class.

So the people at either end of the ability spectrum are either held back or moved along too fast for them. This stops the brightest studying to their level of ability and also means you have a group at the other end who give up on education because they need a bit more time than most.

<labour>
But people felt bad when they failed their 11+ and some were made fun of therefore it was clearly terrible!

</labour>

 

[Raven]

I hear this a lot from "management accountants". When the company you work for isnt doing to well, its your head on the chopping block. I work in practice and havent had a payrise for 2 years but im not complaining one iota because our firm is keeping its head above water and there are no planned redundancies which im thankful for.

The company was doing great, I had a choice of moving back to Surrey (I had only moved back home to Northampton from Surrey 2 years previously) or taking a nice big payout to leave a job I hated.

easy choice.