Budget

[old.user4556]

Yes it would. Nobody mentions the fact that Labour had been mulling a VAT increase themselves. Google it.

*scratches head*

You've lost me Wij, I was agreeing with him?

 

[Wij]

*scratches head*

You've lost me Wij, I was agreeing with him?

I was agreeing with you. Just didn't word it that well

 

[old.user4556]

*re-reads*

Sorry, had to read it again into .. er .. context . My bad .

 

[Scouse]

1.) um - nope

If the VAT hike meant everything got 2.5% more expensive then you would be correct.

175 * (1 / 0.025) = 7000

But that isn't how VAT works.

That's how it gets calculated and paid to HMRC by my business, so I'd say it is.

Yes. Not everything is VAT'ed. But we are talking about a VAT hike. So everything VAT'ed gets calculated that way...

 

[Wij]

That's how it gets calculated and paid to HMRC by my business, so I'd say it is.

Yes. Not everything is VAT'ed. But we are talking about a VAT hike. So everything VAT'ed gets calculated that way...

Paying from business to tax man isn't the same.

£100 / 1.175 = 85.10638
85.10638 * 1.20 = 102.127

Therefore it's a 2.127% increase if passed to consumer exactly.

 

[Raven]

Yeah but what kind of idiot retailer is going to start selling stuff for Only £203.49! Yours today for £409.16!

No, just like when the VAT went down, prices for anything that actually matter will remain the same, Electrical goods and whatnot will still be sold at a price that is attractive to the eye. In fact, most will probably make a big song and dance about the fact they are covering the VAT change for you (when they are probably screwing it out of someone further down the supply chain) There would only be a very short period where the the retailer would make a loss on the VAT anyway, anything they buy in 2011 would also be invoiced at 20%.

Most other stuff is in such fluctuation in price I doubt anyone would notice.

 

[Raven]

Not quite correct but its too bloody early.

 

[ford prefect]

I don't suppose it was a particularly bad budget, however 20% VAT will be here to stay now, it will never drop again. Also despite the whole "fuel price stabliser", I doubt with the added VAT we will see petrol below £1.25 again after next year.

I must admit, I don’t really see how a VAT increase helps the poorest members of our society. The DLA reforms are frankly ridiculous and their doesn’t appear to be much in the way of support into getting people back into work or creating jobs in general, so we have a situation where benefits are going to be lower, more difficult to get, but with the same relatively low employment opportunities.

All in all though, this country is in a complete shambles, so I suppose it could have been much worse.

 

[MrHorus]

I must admit, I don’t really see how a VAT increase helps the poorest members of our society.

Who said it was to help them?

Surely the "poorest" members of our society should be spending most of their income on essential items like rent and food, i.e. items that are either zero rated or where VAT is charged at the lower rate?

 

[Scouse]

Paying from business to tax man isn't the same.

£100 / 1.175 = 85.10638
85.10638 * 1.20 = 102.127

Therefore it's a 2.127% increase if passed to consumer exactly.

Ah. I see what you're getting at, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it's going to work.

HMRC are going to want 2.5% extra. Shops are going to add 2.5% extra. And if I know anything about companies and how they charge, some of them are going to whack 3% on just to make sure they don't lose out...

I, personally, will be charging 2.5% extra on all of my invoices. Just like everyone else I know...

 

[Scouse]

I must admit, I don’t really see how a VAT increase helps the poorest members of our society.

Nah. If fucks the poorest. It's why the Lib Dems campaigned so hard against it.


It's all bullshit anyway. We're going to see (relatively) modest tax rises over the next couple of years but the cuts in public spending are going to be hewuge.

It's like £1 getting you 5 bananas for your public money now only getting you 3 bananas. It's a fucking big cut in spending for the same amount of tax.

The rest goes to the bank of england as interest on the money they lent us.

 

[ford prefect]

Who said it was to help them?

Surely the "poorest" members of our society should be spending most of their income on essential items like rent and food, i.e. items that are either zero rated or where VAT is charged at the lower rate?

My best friend is a single parent who cares full time for his disabled son. I'm sure those kinds of sentiments will be a comfort to him when he has to pay 20%VATto fill his petrol tank next year when he makes his monthly 120 mile trip to a hospital for his sons therapy where he has to pay 20%VAT for a hotel room for three days while his son undergoes therapy.

I would say that assuming people who are poor don't have other VATable expenses in general is a little naive tbh.

 

[MYstIC G]

Sorry to hear about your friends situation Ford.

Playing devils advocate (and please note that I'm sure that your friend is no doubt doing what's best for his situation) driving and using a hotel are choices. If it's such a problem to him presumably he could move closer to the hospital for example?

 

[rynnor]

The rest goes to the bank of england as interest on the money they lent us.

Lol!

 

[ford prefect]

Sorry to hear about your friends situation Ford.

Playing devils advocate (and please note that I'm sure that your friend is no doubt doing what's best for his situation) driving and using a hotel are choices. If it's such a problem to him presumably he could move closer to the hospital for example?

Unfortunately not. He has to drive because his son simply can't cope with public transport (among other problems his son is autistic), and he can't move closer because his parents are here, who, although elderly provide some extra support. Equally the change wouldn't go down well with is son.

 

[rynnor]

One thing that was good in yesterdays budget was caps on housing benefit - he said some families were getting over 100k in housing benefit a year under the old system - nice work new labour

 

[Scouse]

Lol!

??

Is the problem with the structural deficit not (partly) that we can't afford the interest?

It seems to be that even the Beeb is reporting that we can't afford the interest and therefore need to bring down the level of borrowing to a more manageable level...


At least when you put your foot in your mouth with the totally retarded claim that 25% poorest are going to get "a few K each even after VAT" (as opposed to £170) out of this budget I had the good manners to respond with something other than "lol" eh?

 

[rynnor]

??

Is the problem with the structural deficit not that we can't afford the interest?

It seems to be that even the Beeb is reporting that we can't afford the interest and therefore need to bring down the level of borrowing to a more manageable level...

I meant we owe the markets not the bank of england - they bought our gilts.

 

[MYstIC G]

Unfortunately not. He has to drive because his son simply can't cope with public transport (among other problems his son is autistic), and he can't move closer because his parents are here, who, although elderly provide some extra support. Equally the change wouldn't go down well with is son.

That sucks. This is where I have to confess that I never understand the NHS. There should be another option here but there isn't.

 

[Chilly]

bigger, more efficient, less numerous centres are cheaper to run but provide a poorer service - as shown by the above.

 

[rynnor]

bigger, more efficient, less numerous centres are cheaper to run but provide a poorer service - as shown by the above.

How do you mean a poorer service? It might be the best hospital ever its just not local?

Would you prefer a crap local service to a more distant better service?

 

[PLightstar]

Just used the Budget Calculator on the BBC website and I will be £77 a year better off apparently, not much at all. But at least I am not worse off, but as its only an estimation I hope it will be close.

 

[MrHorus]

Unfortunately not. He has to drive because his son simply can't cope with public transport (among other problems his son is autistic)

What's wrong with the patient transport service that the NHS trust provides?

 

[MYstIC G]

Just used the Budget Calculator on the BBC website

The indications are that you will be £206.75 better off.

Suits me.

 

[MrHorus]

My best friend is a single parent who cares full time for his disabled son. I'm sure those kinds of sentiments will be a comfort to him when he has to pay 20%VATto fill his petrol tank next year when he makes his monthly 120 mile trip to a hospital for his sons therapy where he has to pay 20%VAT for a hotel room for three days while his son undergoes therapy.

But surely if the son is so disabled then he gets benefits specifically designed to pay for the extra care?

Does he not get the higher rate of DLA in order to help pay for such expenses?

I don't want to come across as demanding that your friend justifies their expenses, I'm just curious as it's my understanding that these benefits are there exactly for these reasons.

 

[rynnor]

£418 worse off - oh well.

 

[Jupitus]

£618 worse off -fucking skint as it is

 

[Scouse]

How do you mean a poorer service? It might be the best hospital ever its just not local?

Would you prefer a crap local service to a more distant better service?

That depends on the type of medical problem you have and your personal circumstances.


What's clear is that in the future we're all going to have much worse services, for more cash. If people are using "budget calculators" you have to remember that the budget calculator isn't going to factor in that you may have to drive 40 miles to your nearest hospital in the future, you'll have less coppers around to catch the crims, your kids aren't going to get as much money spent on their education etc. etc. etc.

And we've still got 75% of the cuts/tax rises to come. Remember - this is only the preliminary budget...

 

[Wij]

Bloody George's Budget: How bad is it really? ? The Register

 

[rynnor]

What's clear is that in the future we're all going to have much worse services, for more cash...

Not neccessarily - it depends what services you use and also how much slack there is in the budget.

Does being in an old style hospital ward as opposed to a brand new building massively effect your service?

Some of the biggest cuts will be in higher education but unless your a student these wont affect you etc.

Theres also a ton of quango's and other crap that can just be dissolved without any effect.

Its going to be very dependant on the services you use.