Broken britain

[ST^]

I suppose I could find a way to sugar coat the above, but I'd rather just say it, in a way that can't be misinterpreted. I value ST^'s input on "broken Britain" and the "nanny state" less, simply because he's not lived long enough to recognise the changes. It doesn't mean I think he's thick....

You're right. I don't know how things were, but I know how they are. I'm not oblivious to the problems we have, I just don't see them as a big deal. One example is CCTV. I find that older people go on and on about it and about how their privacy is being invaded (actually, I get the feeling that old people will moan about anything, whether they care about it or not). Younger people, people I know, don't give a shit about it. It doesn't affect my life at all, so why is it a problem? The fact that we never had it 20 years ago doesn't make it a problem!

 

[Raven]

BBC News - Britain's Got Talent star Faryl lands HMV in trouble

Stop wasting oxygen you useless fucks!

This is also what is wrong with this fucking place... pen pushers in local government with nothing better to do that enforce retarded rules while the place goes to the shitter.

 

[rynnor]

BBC News - Britain's Got Talent star Faryl lands HMV in trouble

Stop wasting oxygen you useless fucks!

This is also what is wrong with this fucking place... pen pushers in local government with nothing better to do that enforce retarded rules while the place goes to the shitter.

Surely 'Britains Got Talent' is a more serious illustration of Broken Britain

 

[rynnor]

The fact that we never had it 20 years ago doesn't make it a problem!

When I was at school we had a right to remain silent when charged with an offence, you couldnt be held in custody for weeks without charge.

People didnt get arrested just to get them on the DNA database, there was a right to protest without being immediatly treated as a criminal.

You didnt get arrested for photographing a policeman, your local council couldnt authorise 'secret service' style surveillance of you.

You could play conkers at school without a Health and Safety violation, Council's hadnt sold off most of their parks/allotments and playing fields to builders.

The Police occasionally used to try and prevent crime rather than just issuing numbers, no-one thought disciplining your kids was child abuse.

There are more problems than I can count nowadays - I dont really see this changing as the liberals seem to be running the asylum whilst simultaneously remaining oblivious to the consequences.

 

[ST^]

When I was at school we had a right to remain silent when charged with an offence, you couldnt be held in custody for weeks without charge.

People didnt get arrested just to get them on the DNA database, there was a right to protest without being immediatly treated as a criminal.

You didnt get arrested for photographing a policeman, your local council couldnt authorise 'secret service' style surveillance of you.

You could play conkers at school without a Health and Safety violation, Council's hadnt sold off most of their parks/allotments and playing fields to builders.

The Police occasionally used to try and prevent crime rather than just issuing numbers, no-one thought disciplining your kids was child abuse.

There are more problems than I can count nowadays - I dont really see this changing as the liberals seem to be running the asylum whilst simultaneously remaining oblivious to the consequences.

All of these were true when I was at school too, and yet I don't see how any of it has a huge impact on my life. People just love to get enraged about this kinda stuff when they read it in the papers

 

[rynnor]

All of these were true when I was at school too, and yet I don't see how any of it has a huge impact on my life. People just love to get enraged about this kinda stuff when they read it in the papers

I guess it will only affect you when you have kids, suffer the effects of any crime, take pictures in a public area, mix up your recycling etc.

Some people dont just look out for themselves but worry about others in society - obviously you dont...

 

[Ch3tan]

That poem about hitler and the jews springs to mind.

St^ it is a slippery slope, and as the voting public we should not be soo short sighted. The government is trying to control more and more, they are there to serve us, not control our lives.

 

[Jiggs]

When I was at school we had a right to remain silent when charged with an offence, you couldnt be held in custody for weeks without charge.

People didnt get arrested just to get them on the DNA database, there was a right to protest without being immediatly treated as a criminal.

You didnt get arrested for photographing a policeman, your local council couldnt authorise 'secret service' style surveillance of you.

You could play conkers at school without a Health and Safety violation, Council's hadnt sold off most of their parks/allotments and playing fields to builders.

The Police occasionally used to try and prevent crime rather than just issuing numbers, no-one thought disciplining your kids was child abuse.

There are more problems than I can count nowadays - I dont really see this changing as the liberals seem to be running the asylum whilst simultaneously remaining oblivious to the consequences.

Pace of life is faster and people have a much greater sense of "entitlement" (normally without having earned any right to it) these days.

It's sad because you look around and, while there are some shit holes around, most of the UK is nice and cosy.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

When I was at school we had a right to remain silent when charged with an offence, you couldnt be held in custody for weeks without charge.

People didnt get arrested just to get them on the DNA database, there was a right to protest without being immediatly treated as a criminal.

You didnt get arrested for photographing a policeman, your local council couldnt authorise 'secret service' style surveillance of you.

You could play conkers at school without a Health and Safety violation, Council's hadnt sold off most of their parks/allotments and playing fields to builders.

The Police occasionally used to try and prevent crime rather than just issuing numbers, no-one thought disciplining your kids was child abuse.

Out of interest, which of these have you come across in your own life? As in, which of these have you seen or experienced with your own eyes in your own life? Or are you just spouting random tabloid headlines out?

 

[nath]

Out of interest, which of these have you come across in your own life? As in, which of these have you seen or experienced with your own eyes in your own life? Or are you just spouting random tabloid headlines out?

Though I'll agree it's easy to get wound up about random Daily Mail articles that turn out to be total bullshit, if we need to rely on personal experience to form opinions on things such as this we're all fucked. The DNA thing, the council using anti-terror laws to get to people who allow their dogs to foul the parks are from the BBC and Big G has experienced problems with photographing things himself. You may not be a fan of the beeb but it's certainly not a Tabloid and Big G doesn't seem to be the type to make stuff up*.






*Apart from the fact that he has a hot sister, he's provided 0 photographic evidence.

 

[Scouse]

You're right. I don't know how things were, but I know how they are. I'm not oblivious to the problems we have, I just don't see them as a big deal. One example is CCTV. I find that older people go on and on about it and about how their privacy is being invaded (actually, I get the feeling that old people will moan about anything, whether they care about it or not). Younger people, people I know, don't give a shit about it. It doesn't affect my life at all, so why is it a problem? The fact that we never had it 20 years ago doesn't make it a problem!

And this is the "animal in captivity" argument I've been making all along, nicely proved by you!

If you breed animals in captivity they care much less than wild ones that are caged. It doesn't mean that the wild animals are wrong to be distressed by their caging.

So, yes, the old people who moan are right - it impacts their lives to an unacceptable level and in a very real way.

Do you realise this, or are you just saying "I don't give a fuck about anyone but me"?

All of these were true when I was at school too, and yet I don't see how any of it has a huge impact on my life. People just love to get enraged about this kinda stuff when they read it in the papers

Ah! You're a head-in-the-sand-er. If they were burning Jews in Britain you probably wouldn't notice....

 

[Scouse]

Out of interest, which of these have you come across in your own life? As in, which of these have you seen or experienced with your own eyes in your own life? Or are you just spouting random tabloid headlines out?

...

if we need to rely on personal experience to form opinions on things such as this we're all fucked

but:

*Apart from the fact that he has a hot sister, he's provided 0 photographic evidence.

pics NOW!

 

[ST^]

So, yes, the old people who moan are right - it impacts their lives to an unacceptable level and in a very real way.

So how the fuck does a CCTV camera on every corner impact the life of an old person? How do anti-terror laws affect someone who doesn't provoke police attention? My point is that people are complaining about these things, while in reality they aren't affected by them in the slightest.

Why don't you tell me something that has changed in the last 20-30 years that really had an impact on you, and that is unique to Britain as a first world country?

 

[Aoami]

...





but:



pics NOW!

so you shouldn't rely on personal experience to form an opinion, but you've had to have had personal experience to form an opinion?

Q.E.D then I'm afraid old bean. No offence.

You're too young to have had the experience of things turning to shit.

etc
weird.

 

[nath]

So how the fuck does a CCTV camera on every corner impact the life of an old person? How do anti-terror laws affect someone who doesn't provoke police attention? My point is that people are complaining about these things, while in reality they aren't affected by them in the slightest.

Why don't you tell me something that has changed in the last 20-30 years that really had an impact on you, and that is unique to Britain as a first world country?

Again - Big G's experience as an amateur photographer. Also, not having had personal experience of negative effects of the changes doesn't mean the negative effects don't exist, or will never exist. Part of it is being concious of how laws could be abused in the future. That council that used anti-terror laws to get to those who let their dogs shit in parks is a pretty clear example of this. I'll see if I can find a link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7369543.stm

Not the exact one I was thinking of but:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...orism-laws-used-to-spy-on-noisy-children.html

 

[rynnor]

Out of interest, which of these have you come across in your own life? As in, which of these have you seen or experienced with your own eyes in your own life? Or are you just spouting random tabloid headlines out?

Have you been asleep for the last twenty years?

Most of these are in the statute books for gods sake - the tabloids exagerrate things but you dont even have to look at the tabloids to see this stuff?

Talk about having your head in the sand - lol!

 

[ST^]

Again - Big G's experience as an amateur photographer.

As far as I know, he was just asked to stop doing it, not arrested or anything? Is that enough to call this country seriously broken?

Also, not having had personal experience of negative effects of the changes doesn't mean the negative effects don't exist

But but but! I was told that my lack of personal experience and therefore my inability to see the changes had devalued the importance of my opinion. You people can't have it both ways.

And those links you posted -- the RIPA act does not grant powers purely for "anti-terrorism", so you're just repeating the tabloid bollocks that councils are using "anti-terror" laws. Just one nice method they have of stirring the pot.

 

[Embattle]

Have you been asleep for the last twenty years?

Most of these are in the statute books for gods sake - the tabloids exagerrate things but you dont even have to look at the tabloids to see this stuff?

Talk about having your head in the sand - lol!

No we could just come here and watch how many members seem to think the world is ending etc

 

[nath]

As far as I know, he was just asked to stop doing it, not arrested or anything? Is that enough to call this country seriously broken?



But but but! I was told that my lack of personal experience and therefore my inability to see the changes had devalued the importance of my opinion. You people can't have it both ways.

And those links you posted -- the RIPA act does not grant powers purely for "anti-terrorism", so you're just repeating the tabloid bollocks that councils are using "anti-terror" laws. Just one nice method they have of stirring the pot.

I think it was more than that, as far as I recall he had some details taken. Fair point about my use of "anti-terror laws" but I think it's fair to say that using RIPA to investigate people who litter is an abuse of that power. I never called this country broken by the way, I just think there's plenty of fucked up things going on that we shouldn't just accept.

"You people can't have it both ways" - the experience thing is Scouse's deal, just because we agree on some points doesn't mean I'm mirroring his perspective.

 

[rynnor]

No we could just come here and watch how many members seem to think the world is ending etc

Not till 2012 surely?

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I think it was more than that, as far as I recall he had some details taken. Fair point about my use of "anti-terror laws" but I think it's fair to say that using RIPA to investigate people who litter is an abuse of that power. I never called this country broken by the way, I just think there's plenty of fucked up things going on that we shouldn't just accept.

"You people can't have it both ways" - the experience thing is Scouse's deal, just because we agree on some points doesn't mean I'm mirroring his perspective.

Don't the police have to take details whenever they deal with someone in this manner? (as in, dealing with a 'problem') It's not like they filter that information through to a likely terrorist database. It's taken down so that if any further issues arise, they know who they just dealt with and how to get in contact with them if needed.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Have you been asleep for the last twenty years?

Most of these are in the statute books for gods sake - the tabloids exagerrate things but you dont even have to look at the tabloids to see this stuff?

Talk about having your head in the sand - lol!

So, which of them have in some way affected you? Sidestepping the question there.

How many times have you been arrested for taking a photo of a policeman (in most cases, this will not get you arrested, believe me I've done it, and of various armed police in central London too).

How many times have you been arrested just to be put on a DB?

How many times have you been prevented from playing conkers due to health and safety?

I understand your point, but it was made using a horrible array of massive regurgitated generalisations and OTT tabloid reactions. You'd do a lot better by arguing genuine points, and not utter waffle.

 

[rynnor]

So, which of them have in some way affected you? Sidestepping the question there.

How many times have you been arrested for taking a photo of a policeman (in most cases, this will not get you arrested, believe me I've done it, and of various armed police in central London too).

How many times have you been arrested just to be put on a DB?

How many times have you been prevented from playing conkers due to health and safety?

I understand your point, but it was made using a horrible array of massive regurgitated generalisations and OTT tabloid reactions. You'd do a lot better by arguing genuine points, and not utter waffle.

Your point was nonsensical though - thus not worth addressing - why do you have to be arrested before you decry the loss of the right to silence or to not being held without trial - seems illogical to me.

I listed specific points - you reply with general waffle? Why not discuss the points?

 

[Bugz]

so you shouldn't rely on personal experience to form an opinion, but you've had to have had personal experience to form an opinion?


etc
weird.

Haha well spotted!

Scouse lives by the mentally of: you can have your opinion but your wrong if it isnt based on my personal experience me thinks! :d

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Your point was nonsensical though - thus not worth addressing - why do you have to be arrested before you decry the loss of the right to silence or to not being held without trial - seems illogical to me.

I listed specific points - you reply with general waffle? Why not discuss the points?

Sidestepping of the most hilarious nature. You don't have to be, I was asking you of the things you are upset about, how many have actually affected you? I'm trying to discuss the points by asking what impact they have on you, but you keep refusing to answer the question, which is making you appear to be a whinger for whinges sake, rather than opening up a discussion.

You don't need to be so guarded in your replies.

 

[rynnor]

Sidestepping of the most hilarious nature. You don't have to be, I was asking you of the things you are upset about, how many have actually affected you? I'm trying to discuss the points by asking what impact they have on you, but you keep refusing to answer the question, which is making you appear to be a whinger for whinges sake, rather than opening up a discussion.

You don't need to be so guarded in your replies.

Its irrelevant - you just dont have anything useful to say about the points so you fall back on questioning whether we are allowed to have an opinion which is frankly nonsense.

 

[old.user4556]

As far as I know, he was just asked to stop doing it, not arrested or anything? Is that enough to call this country seriously broken?

I shouldn't need to be asked to stop doing anything - there was no law broken, no breach of the peace; I was in a public place going about my business when old bill came up to me and ordered me to stop doing it which is absolutely wrong. Whilst I haven't been arrested, there have been plenty of people who have been handcuffed and thrown into a van - all because they took a few photographs.

For reference:

where's the harm in that? what!!!! I'm under arrest???? on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Edit: this is even better - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/15/tall_photographers/

Don't the police have to take details whenever they deal with someone in this manner?

Yes, but you can refuse to give details. I gave my details because I had nothing to hide and I didn't really want to rub him up the wrong way - he was mostly polite about it.

 

[ST^]

People need to stop posting links from el reg. They're worse than any tabloid for this kinda stuff.

 

[old.user4556]

I'm sorry, but did you even read it?

The reg article I cited is about the bloke who posted the pictures on the above Flickr link.

 

[Scouse]

Why don't you tell me something that has changed in the last 20-30 years that really had an impact on you

CCTV's on every corner.

It has a real impact on me. Real enough for me to leave the country of my birth.

What part of this are you finding hard to understand? I've explained it in very simple terms above....

....but to be honest, I know explaining it is in vain. Your reality is different from mine and in your reality it doesn't fucking matter - therefore you can't grasp why it would in mine.

Basic psychology....