Bombs in London

[Sissyfoo]

Good to see that the maturity level of this forum hasn't decreased in my absence.

Some bad shit goes down and what happens? BICKERFEST 2005! Woo! Get your official t-shirts while stocks last!

 

[Haggus]

Scum that maybe, but deserve to die? No.

Don't you see that's how the vicious cycle perpetuates itself, hate is never the answer. Those responcible need to be bought to justice, but they must not be made into martyrs.

This is very true, i'd rather see them rot in a scummy prision where they'll be bum raped and beated up everyday than to be killed straight away. They should be punished not murded - This sounds very nasty as what they have done is bad, but it is true.

I was at work today and even though we were quite busy, everyone wsas just listening to the radio. It is a serious even but it should of been prepared for and it was, I think the emergency services did a excellent job today and I think we should have them in our hearts aswell.

My condolensis to everyone who was effected by this horrific event.

 

[Tsabo]

Oh the freakin irony, when tis YOU who sound like the Sunday Sport and his views are very 'Independant'

So the truth is?

We did find weapons of mass destruction?
Saddam didn't allow weapon inspectors in?
A year on we have all the weapons we found?
Leaders can be held accountable under the Geneva convention ?
No one outside of Iraq was able to vote?

And the knock on effect isn't on our doorstep?

What ever is the case...

USA and UK go to War with Iraq, doing all they can to evacuate citizens of Iraq and keeps them safe and out of the conflict.

Yet they chose to blow up random people commuting to their 9-5 jobs. Let's not forget that the people that lost their lives yesterday were not soldiers, they weren't wearing camo armour and carrying guns. These were people in suits carrying briefcases were inmost cases the most dangerous item on their person was probably their set of keys. These were inoccent people that should never be brought into a conflict in such a way.

My point here is really that this is nothing like attacking Iraq etc, so please don't compare the two.

After the panic of trying to get home last night from work, I had a dozen odd calls from friends and family asking if I was ok. Thankfully I was able to tell them all I was fine.

But for those that have had a friend/relative injured or worse, my heart goes out to you.

 

[Job]

do you actually listen or watch what is happening in Iraq?
IT IS innocent civilians getting blown to pieces by people trying to stir up hatred and revenge, the whole of Iraq are not in the army, before we went there it was a relatively safe country, now everyone has a machine gun to protect their lives

 

[Dakkath]

do you actually listen or watch what is happening in Iraq?
IT IS innocent civilians getting blown to pieces by people trying to stir up hatred and revenge, the whole of Iraq are not in the army, before we went there it was a relatively safe country, now everyone has a machine gun to protect their lives

I suppose it was a safe place, in a way. As long as you agreed with everything Saddam said and did...

Why was that? Fear...

No-one would do anything to contravene any of Saddams rules because you'd disappear if you did...

Poison gas attacks, torture execution by staking people to the ground and then running over them with tanks (yes there is documented evidence of all of these)

But you're right Job... We should have just let that continue to happen so people can bury their heads in the sand and pretend such things never happen. After all, it's not your family or your friends who went through systematic and violent abuse by their countries leadership so why should you care?

Granted things in Iraq look pretty bleak now with Iraqis killing each other, assasinating their own government officials and anyone there trying to keep peace, to help them rebuild their countries infrastructure...

So what? Pull out and let them murder themselves unchecked? With the current situation, puling out would only result in more and more deaths with no-one to try to keep it in check. Great plan, I wonder how much worse the next dictator who takes control through violence and fear will be...

 

[Job]

Yes no doubt those things happened, and happen in all dictatorships around the world, but was the deaths of 10's of thousands of innocent Iraqi's in the invasion and the resultant chaos worth it?

If you add all the news reports together the semi-official count is 25,000, that's direct kills.
God knows how many have died as a result of the violence, breakdown of services and disease.

25,000!!!!!!!!!!!

That's those London bombs going off every day for 2 years.
You can call me what you like for mentioning it, but deep down you know that there is something fundamentally wrong with putting that out of your mind and only acting with shock and disgust when it's white people who die.

 

[Mojo]

Yes no doubt those things happened, and happen in all dictatorships around the world, but was the deaths of 10's of thousands of innocent Iraqi's in the invasion and the resultant chaos worth it?

If you add all the news reports together the semi-official count is 25,000, that's direct kills.
God knows how many have died as a result of the violence, breakdown of services and disease.

25,000!!!!!!!!!!!

That's those London bombs going off every day for 2 years.
You can call me what you like for mentioning it, but deep down you know that there is something fundamentally wrong with putting that out of your mind and only acting with shock and disgust when it's white people who die.

You seem to think all this shit you quote justifies blowing up people on their way to work. Who gives a fuck how many died anywhere tbfh it doesn't mean Mr Smith on his way to work needs to get his arms blown off my some sick fuckwit with a grudge against a government he might not even have voted for.

 

[Svartmetall]

...BICKERFEST 2005! Woo! Get your official t-shirts while stocks last!

Bah, those T-shirts are more expensive on Excal than Pryd

 

[Lakashnik]

You seem to think all this shit you quote justifies blowing up people on their way to work. Who gives a fuck how many died anywhere tbfh it doesn't mean Mr Smith on his way to work needs to get his arms blown off my some sick fuckwit with a grudge against a government he might not even have voted for.

dont think jobs trying to justify it. i think hes trying to show how people only care when its some1 they might know.
friend family celebrity or some random guy i didnt know. it doesnt matter who dies or where it happens. its all bollox. so far jobs the closest person who feels the same way i do about all this as far as i can see.
people die all the time but you only get worked up about it when it could have been some1 you know. thats what saddens me is that every1 believes that any life is more important than another. u may not want to belive this but its true.
dont get me wrong i feel sad for these people that have died but not anymore than any of the other people dieing all over the world all the time.

 

[Sissyfoo]

I suppose it was a safe place, in a way. As long as you agreed with everything Saddam said and did...

Why was that? Fear...

No-one would do anything to contravene any of Saddams rules because you'd disappear if you did...

Poison gas attacks, torture execution by staking people to the ground and then running over them with tanks (yes there is documented evidence of all of these)

But you're right Job... We should have just let that continue to happen so people can bury their heads in the sand and pretend such things never happen. After all, it's not your family or your friends who went through systematic and violent abuse by their countries leadership so why should you care?

Granted things in Iraq look pretty bleak now with Iraqis killing each other, assasinating their own government officials and anyone there trying to keep peace, to help them rebuild their countries infrastructure...

So what? Pull out and let them murder themselves unchecked? With the current situation, puling out would only result in more and more deaths with no-one to try to keep it in check. Great plan, I wonder how much worse the next dictator who takes control through violence and fear will be...

Iraq is damned both ways. Removing Sads was a good move (even if the methods were slightly illegal and highly questionable) as his successor would have been one of his sons who, judging by their records, were just as bad if not worse. However, the power vacuum left in his absence will just lead to violence and murder for many, many more years to come. At least in Sad's regime you were only executed if you stepped out of line (or happened to live in a small village, or be of a different religion, or be a hot chick that took his fancy etc. etc.) but now anyone is fair game.

Of course, it is easy for me to say these things though because I live in a safe country. If I lived in Iraq I'd have to wonder if living a regime run by fear where, if I played straight, I was pretty safe was better or worse than living in an imposed democracy by a bunch of foreign 'invaders' where if I step outside I could quite easily get blown to shitty bits. But, yay, I'm allowed to vote for my leaders now...and watch them get torn to bits by some maniac with c4 strapped to his gut. I wonder which of the remaining candidates I should vote for next. How about Mustapha Allakabar? Nope, he got blown up last Tuesday. Hmm, what about...? No, reduced to ash at the market two days ago. And so forth.

I think the reason nobody 'cares' about Iraq is that we are totally desensitized to the whole situation. You can't turn on the news these days without hearing how a whole bunch of guys were found shot in the desert or how some politician was disintegrated by a bomb. It happens every day and will continue for several years. Perhaps decades. We may feel sorry for them but you can't continue to be surprised and outraged everytime it happens because you would be completely burnt out after 2 weeks of it. A huge terrorist attack in england on the other hand? We haven't seen something like that since the last century. If we were having attacks like this every 2-3 days then people across the world would soon start to view our troubles in the same light as those in iraq or israel/palastine and other trouble spots. Human nature I guess.

 

[Svartmetall]

Yes no doubt those things happened, and happen in all dictatorships around the world, but was the deaths of 10's of thousands of innocent Iraqi's in the invasion and the resultant chaos worth it?

If you add all the news reports together the semi-official count is 25,000, that's direct kills.
God knows how many have died as a result of the violence, breakdown of services and disease.

25,000!!!!!!!!!!!

That's those London bombs going off every day for 2 years.
You can call me what you like for mentioning it, but deep down you know that there is something fundamentally wrong with putting that out of your mind and only acting with shock and disgust when it's white people who die.

93.37% of all statistics are made up.

 

[Mojo]

dont think jobs trying to justify it. i think hes trying to show how people only care when its some1 they might know.
friend family celebrity or some random guy i didnt know. it doesnt matter who dies or where it happens. its all bollox. so far jobs the closest person who feels the same way i do about all this as far as i can see.
people die all the time but you only get worked up about it when it could have been some1 you know. thats what saddens me is that every1 believes that any life is more important than another. u may not want to belive this but its true.
dont get me wrong i feel sad for these people that have died but not anymore than any of the other people dieing all over the world all the time.

You and jobs are making the assumtion that none care about anyone else who is dying, how the fuck do you know what people here believe and that they don't agree with you?, maybe the people here do something rather than patronise people. Jobs isn't the only person with an opinion that might upset people but he is the only one stupid enough to bring his shit up in a thread such as this.

 

[Tasslehoff]

do you actually listen or watch what is happening in Iraq?
IT IS innocent civilians getting blown to pieces by people trying to stir up hatred and revenge, the whole of Iraq are not in the army, before we went there it was a relatively safe country, now everyone has a machine gun to protect their lives

You know nothing about how Iraq was before they went in ( actually Denmark was included, so I should say "we", and we seem to be next on the list if what the bomb-experts say is correct.) have you read it up? Maybe you have, but as Saddam has everything censored you still wouldn't be any more knowledgeable on the subject. I saw a documentary made by a half-Iraqi(spelling? ), half-Danish girl, she was checked all the time for the video camera, you weren't allowed to film anything in the country.

But she managed to get in, and lived with her family down there, all they owned was a rug, a kitchen and a broken television. And they weren´t one of the poorest families, the son was a doctor and lived at home. They were not allowed to watch anything from other countries, and nothing came on the TV unless Saddam´s people had watched it and said OK. If Saddam's people heard anything, about anyone critisising him, they would find the person and he would disappear. Also there were big posters of Saddam everywhere, reminding people that he was there all the time.

It was hell to live in before the Us bombed them, I bet it's still not a nice place. But it´s better than before.

 

[Ballard]

You and jobs are making the assumtion that none care about anyone else who is dying, how the fuck do you know what people here believe and that they don't agree with you?, maybe the people here do something rather than patronise people. Jobs isn't the only person with an opinion that might upset people but he is the only one stupid enough to bring his shit up in a thread such as this.

Exactly. There is always someone who thinks they are 'enlightened' and have a 'unique' view of the world. People here were just empathising with the situation and talking about the terrible event that has happened in our country, leave the patronising psuedo-intellectual crap out please.

 

[Lakashnik]

You and jobs are making the assumtion that none care about anyone else who is dying, how the fuck do you know what people here believe and that they don't agree with you?, maybe the people here do something rather than patronise people. Jobs isn't the only person with an opinion that might upset people but he is the only one stupid enough to bring his shit up in a thread such as this.

im not trying to patronise any1. im definatly not "enlightend" i just dont think its right that because its happend to us people make it into a bigger deal than when its happend to others. it should be a big deal all the time.

 

[Lamp]

The BBC said a few minutes ago that a website known to be an Al-Qaeda link is claiming responsibility for this attack;

...

The atrocities commited yesterday in London share many similar facets with the Madrid bombing, and many have speculated that its the work of an Islamic fundamentalist terrorist cell.

"Every Jihadist Tom, Dick, and Harry will want to claim responsibility for these acts" (to quote the exact words of Crispin Black, a former government intelligence officer speaking on BBC News 24 yesterday) but we will only be sure who perpetrated these vile acts once the forensic evidence has been examined.

So while the fingers of blame are being pointed to Islamic fundamental terrorists, and while it is extremely likely one of the groups following the Al Quaeda philosophy were involved, no one knows 100% for certain.

The vast majority of Moslems are decent law abiding people, and people who spread generic anti-Moslem sentiments are tarnishing an entire religion with the blood of a tiny minority of terrorists who use the Moslem religion as an excuse to kill people. These terrorists have a political not a religious agenda.

Osama is the titular head of the Al Quaeda philosophy. Following him are a great many groups throughout the globe who operate and are financed independently from Osama. Osama does not personally direct each act of terrorism. They occur within sleeper cells.

British intelligence needs to radically re-think their counter-terrorist procedures. The only way to get to these people before they commit acts of violence is to infiltrate their ranks, and to do this you need to involve the local communities, and have them liaising with the police and security services on the micro not macro level.

I am not Moslem, but I will happily stand shoulder to shoulder with any law abiding, peaceful person of ANY religion and shake their hand to show solidarity. Irrespective of skin colour or relgion, we are all human beings. Terrorism is not just a crime against the country in which it occurs. It is a crime against humanity.

This is not a time for narrow minded xenophobic ignorance. It is a time for all decent human beings to stand as one and indefatigably pronounce anathema against terrorism.

I'm sure I reciprocate the sentiments of many here in expressing my deep condolences to the families of those who were killed yesterday, and my wishes for a speedy recovery for all those injured and shocked by yesterday's events.

 

[Job]

My first trip into cynicism was after buying a satellite sytem that could pickup all those live news feeds around the time of the gulf war, I tuned into a downlink and there was the usual scene of a crowd of Iraqi's slapping their heads and screaming 'down with the America!!'

The reporter was in the middle of it all and getting jostled,he was shouting above the din and the whole thing gave the impression that the country had gone crazy.

THEN........

He stopped talking the camera panned back, this 'crowd' of looneys was actually about 20 people, all around were bemused Iraqi's going to work, carrying designer shopping bags, sitting in roadside cafe's,they were staring at the crowd of activists with the same amazement we were at home.

The looney's straight away calmed down and walked off, they were the 'rent a mob' that the journalists going looking for and tightly film to give an impression which is UTTERLY distorted from the truth.

 

[old.Tohtori]

93.37% of all statistics are made up.

Doesn't that include that statistic, which makes it kinda null?

 

[Lamp]

Been reading some of the stuff people have posted here.

/shakes head

Gonna find another board I think...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Been reading some of the stuff people have posted here.

/shakes head

Gonna find another board I think...

Don't fall into the boardism thing. One or two might say thing or two that you dont agree on, but the majority of these forum people here are quite nice.

I kid...their a bunch of wankers like me, but gotta stop people from joining *goshhorror* VN.

 

[Lamp]

I was naively thinking that we might get some sensible comments, perhaps the odd pause for thought for the families of those killed, or kind wishes towards those injured.

Its encouraging to see so many people commenting on whats important to them for a change.

Cya

 

[Sissyfoo]

Seriously, you've been here for over 6 months and you've only JUST realised that?!

 

[Escape]

Can't help but laugh at the media victims in this thread.

You might've missed it, but the UK is at War! You know, when people start killing each other. If you can't accept civilian casulties, don't support the war in the first place!


I still don't know how people can be stupid enough to say things like:
Iraq was a fucked up place before the war. It's totally fucked now, but hey, at least the people have freedom!

Freedom for what? To see their children starve to death because the US tricked them with the oil-for-food programme. They got the Oil, Iraqis got to starve. No simple medicines either, adding to the death toll. Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of infants died due to a lack of common supplies. No running water, no electricity, no education.

Iraqis had these before the US invasion, on the condition they didn't speak out against Saddam.
Back then, when he was gassing kurdish villages. Did the US/UK condemn him? No. They kept silent and sold him some more biological weapons.

When the Iraqi rebels wanted to overthrow Saddam, it was the perfect opportunity for the West to move in. And Bush(Senior) secretly made deals with the rebels. They planned everything and Saddam was about to go down. But then, the US double crossed the rebels and saw them captured!

Since the war, whole cities have been bombed to rubble. The US has dumped hundreds of tons of radioactive material in Iraq, resulting in deformaties. You cannot compare the death and destruction in Iraq, to something like the London bombing or 9/11.

If the Bush/Blair are so concerned about dictators, why don't they look beyond Iraq? Even at the dictators they themselves support?

Blair will make his white house inspired speeches "They are attacking our way of life and of all civilised nations". What of him attacking their way of life? What's civilised about inciting wars and feeding your population false propoganda, when you're sworn to truth?


But no... don't open your mind. Believe the bullshit, support wars and vote for those who protect you against terrorism.

 

[Lamp]

No. I've always known that some of the stuff posted on FW are written by uneducated, illiterate, xenophobic, racist, narrow-minded, unintelligent, yob-culture-spawned shites...but I thought that I might be pleasantly surprised by a show of compassionate unity in the light of yesterday's events.

Nevermind...

 

[Sissyfoo]

No. I've always known that some of the stuff posted on FW are written by uneducated, illiterate, xenophobic, racist, narrow-minded, unintelligent, yob-culture-spawned shites...but I thought that I might be pleasantly surprised by a show of compassionate unity in the light of yesterday's events.

Nevermind...

Maybe in an alternate reality...but that is never gonna happen here.

 

[Job]

Do you wan't another REAL TRUTH?

Nelson Mandela..Mr Nice guy, Mr Pop star friend.

Head of the ANC military wing and OK'd a car bomb which.......

' In May 1983, exploded a car bomb in Pretoria's Church Street. Nineteen people were killed and 217 injured. The incident is identified by many security force members as the moment at which they realised the significance of the threat facing them and began to see the ANC as a ‘terrorist organisation’. '

That's why the fooker went to prison for 30 yrs, he oversaw the mindless slaughter of innocent victims for political gain.

We named streets after him FFS!!!!!!!!

 

[Ballard]

Do you wan't another REAL TRUTH?

Nelson Mandela..Mr Nice guy, Mr Pop star friend.

Head of the ANC military wing and OK'd a car bomb which.......

' In May 1983, exploded a car bomb in Pretoria's Church Street. Nineteen people were killed and 217 injured. The incident is identified by many security force members as the moment at which they realised the significance of the threat facing them and began to see the ANC as a ‘terrorist organisation’. '

That's why the fooker went to prison for 30 yrs, he oversaw the mindless slaughter of innocent victims for political gain.

We named streets after him FFS!!!!!!!!

erm no Mr Mandela was in prison then... If you are familiar with the SA prison system you will know he was allowed very limited contact with the outside world. Kind of dificult to organise it then no? He was the named head only day to day action was carried out by other delegated leaders.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Wish people would just calm the f*ck down and let it go.

If noone reacted to these things, like on boards, medias, streets, wars...

We would soon get no more bombs around 'cause noone would care about them.

 

[Ballard]

.........

Its funny that you accuse other people of being media victims when you yourself spout media crap. You sound like some half boiled university student who has been litening to a 'radical' radio station and visiting michael moores website. The justification given for the war was wrong but the overall action should have been taken, and it should have been lead by the UN which was,and still is, bogged down by bureaucratic process. You would prefer the world left saddam hussein and other dictators alone to persecute his/their people wouldnt you? If you have the means to intervene on the behalf of the weak you have the responsibility to. Actions speak alot louder than words.

 

[NeonBlue]

Can't help but laugh at the media victims in this thread.

Hope that includes yourself then, because without fail whenever a discussion like this takes place, here you are spouting the same "anti US/UK" propaganda.

Your as bad as the other so called "media victims" you just do it from the "other" point of view