Bolt range mezz vs Insta mezz

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Javai
Very slight change of topic but why do Hibs insist on hitting inst amnesia when they jump you from behind? All it does it tell us you're there if we running with our backs to you you can be pretty sure we aren't casting at you

prolly to knock of your speed so that he/she can get close enough to cast mezz you without everyone outrunning range

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Gahldir
notice how the other two realms don't even need to target thier enemy before casting. such overpowerness....

Whoa, aimbot!

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Belomar
Whoa, aimbot!

found it a bit funny how he had to add stuff the sorc had to do to make it sound harder

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by Gahldir
prolly to knock of your speed so that he/she can get close enough to cast mezz you without everyone outrunning range

Entirely unnecessary as more often than not they are running at bard speed while we run at caster speed

 

[Event]

Originally posted by Gahldir
prolly to knock of your speed so that he/she can get close enough to cast mezz you without everyone outrunning range

What i meant was that some grps when they see the lull effect over there heads just stop or turn around - this uses time during which bard lands castable.

 

[K0nah]

fact is insta mezz >>> boltrange mezz at anything other than... ...boltrange. amazing eh?

the real question should be instamezz vs qc mezz, tbh.

 

[Aussie-]

/whisper konah DELETE THAT POST

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Aussie-
/whisper konah DELETE THAT POST

 

[old.Wildfire]

"the real question should be instamezz vs qc mezz, tbh"

thats a good one

edit: Run with minstrel as driver - most bards/healers have the common sense to use a single-target insta at the start of the fight and to save their AE variant as backup. 99% of the time this will be targetted on the driver of the group, leaving the sorc to mezz.

 

[mastade]

Originally posted by serious
its not the insta mezz on hibs that bother me (accept if dh use it with that awfull offensive pbaoe right after). its the insta root, the insta GP, the insta Thornweed Field, the insta amnesia.
all forms of CC/counter-cc that are insta. those are the bane of the sorcs (albs) life in rvr against hibs.

S.

Thornweed.. mmMmm

oh well yeh, Thornwield Field is so uber.. use 5 seconds to set the gtaoe, push TWF, wait 5 secs for it to start.. such ubah insta

 

[hotrat]

Bard is better than a sorc not because of its cc abilities (which are in fact worse I agree) but because they do the job most important job of a sorc (mezz), minstrel (speed) and paladin (end regen) all on one class. This opens up loads of room in the rest of the group for other classes. Try making a decent hib pbae group without a bard, and using alb classes instead.

2 eld, 1 chanter, 2 druids, 1 warden, 1 minstrel (gotta have speed), 1 sorc (gotta have cc). Oh no end regen and no guard bot, take a pala? no det and more importantly no room in the group!

Bard and healer are such strong support classes because of their secondary abilities. Granted their cc may not quite be as good as a sorc (though a pac healer comes very close) but the other things they can do more than make up for it.

Druid, warden and shammy are all really nice as well but lets not get into that I mean albs have the amazing friar as their secondary healing class

 

[Maleg_Grumpton]

Originally posted by acei
Unrestricted Range Bonuses:
-Nailah's Robes 5%
-Staff of God 5%
-Stone of Atlantis 5%
-Cloudsong 5%
-Phoebus Harp Necklace 5%
-Bracer of Zo'arkat 6%

Didn't know that, thanks for the info.

 

[acei]

Originally posted by Maleg_Grumpton
Didn't know that, thanks for the info.

It should be noted that some of the items i listed cannot be used by either Bard or Healer, i am unsure as to whether there is a bard/healer version of the items available. But if not then this gives sorcerer's a even greater range advantage

 

[duact]

Originally posted by poppamies

And for mid grps having 3 healers, well only 1 of those 3 has any CC, well exept baseline cc, since the 2 otehrs are mend/aug.

try having one of the mend/aug 40mend 36 pac instead and try using a 4th healer, it rox

 

[Deskiziado]

Originally posted by duact
boltrange mez needs a nerf

and savage need love. give a chance (90%-95%) that savages hit 10 times!!!!!

 

[Divinia]

Originally posted by acei
It should be noted that some of the items i listed cannot be used by either Bard or Healer, i am unsure as to whether there is a bard/healer version of the items available. But if not then this gives sorcerer's a even greater range advantage

bards and healers get acess to two +range items, sorc 6

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Aussie-

skald instant snare > 355 dex and mota 3 mez

conclusion : Insta > castable 1875

you spam it too much, spamming it slows it down (rly!)

 

[Divinia]

i think he meant; conclusion: skald is bettar mezz0r then zee sorc! only them skalds cna use instas! and if bard fail mezz they will gr00pp00rge 40 times with their owerpowered enchaantuurs! then they will shoot dualwielding pbae's from crim to amg with TWF! cus TWF is a fucking insta mann!! so is all hibernia RA's!! albiaan RA's sucks.

 

[Garbannoch Nox]

as already said before the real comparison should not be made between insta mez and boltrange mez but between insta mez and _QC_ bolt range mez: if a healer or bard gets interrupted they are not able to use castable mez. A sorc can use qc and get the mez in while a bard or healer have to rely on instas in such situations. Healer has access to moc which would allow him to get in castable mez while being interrupted but a bard cannot get moc (but relying on a 30 min RA to be able to get mez in would be ridiculous anyway). The only thing that is REALLY overpowered is that healers got 2 insta aoe CCs and 2 castable aoe CCs which allows them to rely fully on instas wihtout sacrificing CC duration (e.g. open with insta aoe stun and use castable mez afterwards or open with insta aoe mez and use castable stun on top (for pb groups))

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
as already said before the real comparison should not be made between insta mez and boltrange mez but between insta mez and _QC_ bolt range mez: if a healer or bard gets interrupted they are not able to use castable mez. A sorc can use qc and get the mez in while a bard or healer have to rely on instas in such situations.

You mean instead of my Sorcerer giving the bard ~1.4secs casttime in order to amnesia and mezz, I should give him 2.0sec?

Currently (not using QC to open) I begin casting, get hit by insta amnesia 1sec later.
Begin casting again, roughly the same time as the bard, get hit by insta amnesia again mid-cast and bard lands mezz.

If I had a 2sec casttime (using QC) and the bard (not having QC) has 1.5sec, he doesn't need the second amnesia.

The only time where a QC-mezz opening will beat a (good+awake) bard is when amnesia is resisted.

(ignore mids - I get hit with an insta mezz/stun 95% of the time there anyway)



Not that I think a Sorc is bad. It's a great class, powerful CC'er. Just not the best at the start of a fight where both sides see each other.

 

[Garbannoch Nox]

Originally posted by Pin
You mean instead of my Sorcerer giving the bard ~1.4secs casttime in order to amnesia and mezz, I should give him 2.0sec?

Currently (not using QC to open) I begin casting, get hit by insta amnesia 1sec later.
Begin casting again, roughly the same time as the bard, get hit by insta amnesia again mid-cast and bard lands mezz.

If I had a 2sec casttime (using QC) and the bard (not having QC) has 1.5sec, he doesn't need the second amnesia.

The only time where a QC-mezz opening will beat a (good+awake) bard is when amnesia is resisted.

(ignore mids - I get hit with an insta mezz/stun 95% of the time there anyway)



Not that I think a Sorc is bad. It's a great class, powerful CC'er. Just not the best at the start of a fight where both sides see each other.

I didn't comment on whether bard or sorc is the better CCer (in fact it's highly situational) - I only pointed out WHY bards have insta CC - cause if they didnt have it there would be no way for a bard to mez when he keeps getting interrupted

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Pin
Currently (not using QC to open) I begin casting, get hit by insta amnesia 1sec later.
Begin casting again, roughly the same time as the bard, get hit by insta amnesia again mid-cast and bard lands mezz.

If I had a 2sec casttime (using QC) and the bard (not having QC) has 1.5sec, he doesn't need the second amnesia.

Sorry, but ae amnesia is on a 10 sec timer and the single amnesia is resisted most of the time. A resisted amnesia does interrupt, but only after you finish the spell you were casting... that's how mine works anyway

That said, you're right its possible that this happens, but targetting a sorc is incredibily hard. Especially when you meet an alb group from the front, with a leading mincer instastunning me (Thire in FC for example happens constantly) and a silly fish in the middle of the group.

I think sorcs are fine except for their low survivability, maybe I'm a bad bard but against well organised alb groups its hard to win the cc fight.

 

[walkerb]

cant really be compared, in some situations insta is better in some bolt range is, only conclusion got to be
pac healers>sorc/bards with their 4 different insta's, moc and ae stun.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
I didn't comment on whether bard or sorc is the better CCer (in fact it's highly situational) - I only pointed out WHY bards have insta CC - cause if they didnt have it there would be no way for a bard to mez when he keeps getting interrupted

I fully understand WHY bards have insta CC. But you actually said that a comparison should be made between QC-boltrange mezz and insta CC.... So I made it (actually, just using insta amnesia, not insta mezz)

What I think would have been more balanced is for insta-mezz/stun to be at a shorter range - 1k, or even 700

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Sorry, but ae amnesia is on a 10 sec timer and the single amnesia is resisted most of the time. A resisted amnesia does interrupt, but only after you finish the spell you were casting... that's how mine works anyway

That depends when you use it. If you use amnesia in the first 50% of the cast time and it's resisted, it will interrupt the current spell. If you use it in the second 50% it will interrupt afterwards. (The same way all interrupts are).

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
That said, you're right its possible that this happens, but targetting a sorc is incredibily hard. Especially when you meet an alb group from the front, with a leading mincer instastunning me (Thire in FC for example happens constantly) and a silly fish in the middle of the group.

I agree, but again the alb group has to rely on 2 people doing the job that is done by 1 in the hib/mid groups (plus the 700 range thing for the minstrel's insta).

(which is one reason I like to drive with my reaver - 1500 range insta, but anyway)

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by walkerb
cant really be compared, in some situations insta is better in some bolt range is, only conclusion got to be
pac healers>sorc/bards with their 4 different insta's, moc and ae stun.

Yes like our last fight, insta ae mezz on me, gives your chanter and elds just enough time to target and kill me before the tanks move in to interupt.

If a caster group wins cc it is deadly, even against a tank group. Now this should mean that if they lose cc they should suffer more, no determination, only individual purges, however thanks to GP even if a hib caster group loses CC they are in a better situation than the group that mezzed them. Most of the hib group will now be immune to mezz for the next minute while the other group is completely vulnerable.

I do like GP as a RA because it enables groups to run in unusual setups and still be successful, however as it is only available to hib I do still think it is overpowered when used in that situation. A group should get an advantage for winning first CC, not a dis-advantage. If it worked more like reducing the duration of mezz, root etc by 75% for 30 seconds that would be better imo. This would still give the group who mezzed the hibs a slight advantage, but also allow hibs to continue running caster groups. Then give this RA to the other 2 realms as well

Saying that it wasn't GP that lost us the last fight, it was indeed instant mezz, combined with friggin heat debuff in the pbae line on a chanter then assist nuking. After trying my cabalist in rvr as spirit spec even with only a 422 cap it is devastating, I can't imagine what its like being able to PBAE as well, not to mention all the other tools of a typical hib caster group.

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by Pin

Just not the best at the start of a fight where both sides see each other.

exactly, a sorc has 0% chance to win against a good bard that knows how to time him amnesia, or a healer that uses his single insta stun

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Aussie-
exactly, a sorc has 0% chance to win against a good bard that knows how to time him amnesia, or a healer that uses his single insta stun

insta stun can be down FYI!!!!111 (on all 3 healers, its TECHNICALLY possible, cmon, work with me here )