Best defensive tank in albion?

[se-ra]

Paladin?
Reaver?
Armsman?

If they are specced defensively ofcourse.

Opinions?

ps : this counts for pve and rvr

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by se-ra
Paladin?
Reaver?
Armsman?

If they are specced defensively ofcourse.

Opinions?

Paladin, with its heal-chant, high AF, end-chant, etc etc

 

[[PS]Venom]

Paladin, without a doubt.

Possibly the best defensive tank in the game. As said before end/heal/dam/AF chants, a taunt shout to hold agro, insane AF, Full Group Heal realm ability.

 

[gunner440]

PAladin

 

[kenshee-himura]

Paladin for sure same reasons as above

 

[TeslaUK]

Pally wins this easily. Same reasons given.

 

[talen_sun]

Reaver.. no, wait... armsman. Ah, ok... hmmm....

I'll go with the Pally, as I wish I'd made one instead of a gimped defencive tank...

 

[Draylor]

What does a reaver have to add to its defensive abilities that the others dont? Hmm, nothing

And an armsman? Possibly the Soldiers Barricade unique RA (that pretty much noone seems to get) and slightly more HPs.

And a paladin? The chants spec line and Faith Heal (which Im still amazed the other realms never choose to whine about)

No contest - its an easy win for the paladin

 

[dakeyras]

Reaver gives the Paladin a very close run...and is arguably better.


Twistable Abs and Dps debuffs that hold aggro and don't break mezz. Each with 2 versions.
Twistable PBAOE chant that does break mezz.
9 sec anytime shield stun
9 sec stun in parry chain
4 sec stun of a block
The most damaging style in the game (Cobra) in the block chain (hits for 500-600 on orange whilst healing the Reaver for 400).
Side style that hits hard and heals the Reaver.
Rear style that is uber
Lifetap procs every 2-3 hits
Life tap on 30 sec timer
DoT on 30 sec timer
15 dps dmg add

Reavers in PvE don't need to style against yellow and will kill the mob quickly without losing health. On orange will finsh fight with full health and half end. Against Red 50-60% health and no end (Undead Red con = 100% health).

I think Reavers get the nod because not only is their defence superb but they can also kill the mob very, very quickly.

 

[Pin]

Reaver and Pally are close imo as well.


For caster protection, add to the above list that the PBAE damage has 2 levels on different timers (2 pulses every 8 secs), adds the best assassin guard around and is also excellent for interrupting casters.


Also add that a defensive-specced Reaver will almost certainly have weapon specced to 50 with access to 2 damage types he can also kill the guy he's slammed rather than poking away with a gimpy weaponskill.

 

[chi_]

Reavers are far superior at lower levels, but at 40+ their lack of hp becomes apparant. They're still great offensive tanks/caster guards, although the lifetap timer is far too high, should be 15 seconds instead of 30.

 

[[PS]Venom]

Originally posted by chi_
Reavers are far superior at lower levels, but at 40+ their lack of hp becomes apparant. They're still great offensive tanks/caster guards, although the lifetap timer is far too high, should be 15 seconds instead of 30.

Or 4s like the Bonedancers :/

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by chi_
Reavers are far superior at lower levels, but at 40+ their lack of hp becomes apparant. They're still great offensive tanks/caster guards, although the lifetap timer is far too high, should be 15 seconds instead of 30.

No.

The timer was increased and the 2 lifetaps put on the same timer for a reason. A 15 second timer would overpower the class beyond anything remotely acceptable.

Lack of hitpoints isn't a problem in PvE. In a typical fight the reaver will Cobra at least once and gain 400..add 200+ from a lifedrain and 50-60 every 2-3 hits from Debt. In RvR Cobra is very hard to get off and therefore HP's are more of an issue.

Reavers are actually not very good at low level and get better later on. A Reaver doesn't really become exceptional till 44 flex.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by dakeyras
4 sec stun of a block
The most damaging style in the game (Cobra) in the block chain (hits for 500-600 on orange whilst healing the Reaver for 400).

Viper is 5 second off a block.


And Cobra (okay, it's 4th in the block chain, so not gonna be used often, but the 5-second stun opener gets the next 2 in without worrying about block/parry/evade) hits level 50s for ~200 weapon damage with a ~360 spirit proc, and heals for over 300..... (with a 3.3spd weapon).

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by chi_
Reavers are far superior at lower levels, but at 40+ their lack of hp becomes apparant. They're still great offensive tanks/caster guards, although the lifetap timer is far too high, should be 15 seconds instead of 30.

Sorry, don't agree.


HPs? At level 50, before aug con or toughness my Briton Reaver has 1816 hp buffed. I'll have 2010 with aug con2 and tough3.

Is that low hp?

Then add the 3-400 that a reaver will steal in a typical fight and it doesn't look so low to me.

 

[Falcore]

poor armsman

but pallys by far best defense tanks, reavers r more offensive magic wise, also reaver = chain, so pally simply by armour type can take more damage defending, armsman r neither offensive or defensive, they need some serious damage giving love

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Reaver gives the Paladin a very close run...and is arguably better.


Twistable Abs and Dps debuffs that hold aggro and don't break mezz. Each with 2 versions.
Twistable PBAOE chant that does break mezz.
9 sec anytime shield stun
9 sec stun in parry chain
4 sec stun of a block
The most damaging style in the game (Cobra) in the block chain (hits for 500-600 on orange whilst healing the Reaver for 400).
Side style that hits hard and heals the Reaver.
Rear style that is uber
Lifetap procs every 2-3 hits
Life tap on 30 sec timer
DoT on 30 sec timer
15 dps dmg add

It says ' defensive' tank, not offensive. All the things you name up are on the most part offensive.

Reavers in PvE don't need to style against yellow and will kill the mob quickly without losing health. On orange will finsh fight with full health and half end. Against Red 50-60% health and no end (Undead Red con = 100% health).

I think Reavers get the nod because not only is their defence superb but they can also kill the mob very, very quickly. [/B]

All very offensive and not defensive. Besides reavers are in big trouble if a lifetap is resisted or some style is missed/resisted/blocked/parried/whatever.

A reaver is an offensive tank, deal huge damage in very small amounts of time. That's just exactly opposite to defensive.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Pin
Sorry, don't agree.


HPs? At level 50, before aug con or toughness my Briton Reaver has 1816 hp buffed. I'll have 2010 with aug con2 and tough3.

Is that low hp?

Then add the 3-400 that a reaver will steal in a typical fight and it doesn't look so low to me.

Hmm, what has an armsman (highlander, with 80 const start) and 14 RA-points + buffbot ?

Surely you can find all kinds of ways to increase hitpoints, but my question is:

Without any RA's and buffs, how much hitpoints does your reaver has?

And you spend like 14 RA-points on those hp-increasing RA's, add another 23 for IP (alot more then other tanks) and 10 on purge. By the time you're RR5 you're on par with a RR3 tank with needed RA's (purge and IP) and hitpoints.

 

[chi_]

Originally posted by Pin
Sorry, don't agree.


HPs? At level 50, before aug con or toughness my Briton Reaver has 1816 hp buffed. I'll have 2010 with aug con2 and tough3.

Is that low hp?

Then add the 3-400 that a reaver will steal in a typical fight and it doesn't look so low to me.

Note that I'm talking about PvE. A pally will have ~250-400hp more than you buffed (?), and against any mobs you may be fighting at level 50, the lifetap/proc will be resisted, which negates that aspect.

 

[chi_]

And also a little more Abs from their plate.

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
It says ' defensive' tank, not offensive. All the things you name up are on the most part offensive.



All very offensive and not defensive. Besides reavers are in big trouble if a lifetap is resisted or some style is missed/resisted/blocked/parried/whatever.

A reaver is an offensive tank, deal huge damage in very small amounts of time. That's just exactly opposite to defensive.

Best defence is offence for one.

But apart from end regen, what has a paladin got that is better than a Reaver?

Only time my reaver ever got in trouble was if he got more than 3 orange. 3 or less with a large shield and no trouble killing even if ooe. The proc heals a considerable amount over time.

A Paladin with 3 orange?

Might be wrong but I doubt they have the dmg output to survive.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Falcore
poor armsman

but pallys by far best defense tanks, reavers r more offensive magic wise, also reaver = chain, so pally simply by armour type can take more damage defending, armsman r neither offensive or defensive, they need some serious damage giving love

Depends how you spec and how you play, but ranged dots and taps and pbae can all be considered good defensive tools (interrupts, anti-stealth, etc).

Also chain + evade 1 is much better than plate.

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by chi_
and against any mobs you may be fighting at level 50, the lifetap/proc will be resisted, which negates that aspect.

Nope

Very few resists on red..maybe 1 in 2 on purp

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
It says ' defensive' tank, not offensive. All the things you name up are on the most part offensive.



All very offensive and not defensive. Besides reavers are in big trouble if a lifetap is resisted or some style is missed/resisted/blocked/parried/whatever.

A reaver is an offensive tank, deal huge damage in very small amounts of time. That's just exactly opposite to defensive.

Slam the guy, kill the guy. how is that not defensive? Paladin = slam the guy, hope someone else kills the guy.

If lifetaps and nukes are resisted, then the Reaver is still doing more damage than the Paladin due to generally much higher weaponskill.


A Reaver can be played either offensively or defensively and will be great at either.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by chi_
Note that I'm talking about PvE. A pally will have ~250-400hp more than you buffed (?), and against any mobs you may be fighting at level 50, the lifetap/proc will be resisted, which negates that aspect.

A pally gets more hp in PvE, huh?


Does a level 50 paladin (before RAs) have 2050-2200 hps? I don't think so.


As for resists, weapon procs have incredibly low resist rate, almost always landing on red cons. The Soulrending spells are resisted more, but that also varies depending on how high you took Soulrend.

 

[chi_]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Nope

Very few resists on red..maybe 1 in 2 on purp

Why would you be killing reds and low purples at 50? I was referring to epic mobs and raids.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Hmm, what has an armsman (highlander, with 80 const start) and 14 RA-points + buffbot ?

Surely you can find all kinds of ways to increase hitpoints, but my question is:

Without any RA's and buffs, how much hitpoints does your reaver has?

And you spend like 14 RA-points on those hp-increasing RA's, add another 23 for IP (alot more then other tanks) and 10 on purge. By the time you're RR5 you're on par with a RR3 tank with needed RA's (purge and IP) and hitpoints.

Yup, armsmen have a shitload more RPs and cheap RAs to let them live longer. But if you're defining defensive capabilities purely on who can soak up the most damage, then that's a very strange definition.


Without RAs and buffs, my Reaver has 1341hps, but who goes RvR without buffs?


IP, Purge, aug con, toughness, etc are the same cost for Paladins and Reavers, so no discussion there. The only variable there is for Armsmen, but I would say there was no contest defensively between an Arms and a Pally or an Arms and a Reaver.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by chi_
Why would you be killing reds and low purples at 50? I was referring to epic mobs ands raids.

Why should you care about lifetaps, etc on epic mobs? Just hitting the things is the major factor here.


Okay, a Paladin can hold aggro better than other tanks, but that is due to twisting heal chants, etc, but does that define 'defensive tank'?

 

[thegreatest]

Well can anyone tell me what an armsman is good for then . No seriously, I want serious reactions (not reactions like 'you are a meat shield', I know that ). I considered stop playing an armsman and roll a paladin when I was like level 20, but I enjoyed playing my char so I havent rolled a pala...

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by thegreatest
Well can anyone tell me what an armsman is good for then . No seriously, I want serious reactions (not reactions like 'you are a meat shield', I know that ). I considered stop playing an armsman and roll a paladin when I was like level 20, but I enjoyed playing my char so I havent rolled a pala...

Depends on the spec of the armsman but when we go pve against epic type mobs I'll use my Paladin as the main tank holding aggro off all and sundry and in those circumstances I like to be guarded by an armsman with 50 shield spec