Bank Charges

[Roalith]

I'm sorry but that's bullshit. I can't remeber one single case in my mind where the bank (lloyds tsb) has charged on an excess caused by a charge.

Happened to me on quite a few occasions too. Is one of the reasons I filed a small claims court case against them and had the full amount settled, unconditionally, out of court, with 8% statutory interest applied.

 

[Mey]

Hawkwind i'd be interested to see where you came up with the statement that english banking charges are the most expensive, because i've read to the contray.

 

[gohan]

blah blah blah moan moan moan, i probly earn less than most of you and ive never been overdrawn once in my life, i can have a 500 overdraft if i want it but i dont even have it on my account,

i also save 250 a month which is like 25% of my take home

i have no sympathy, working in the bank i can tell you the majority of people hit with charges are fuckign scummy benifit scroungers and you look at thier direct debits an they got sky digital orange home (t'internet) vodaphone mobile ect ect


wah wah your bank charged me now i cant afford to feed my kids your banks a disgrace


fuck you get a job, or better yet drop the luxury items that i dont even use myself (pay as you go phone, analouge cable box still) CVNTS


the thing that gets me is most off you shouting off in here have no fucking idea how a bank works,

you dont get charges for less than £5 over your agreed limit its called a buffer, 90% of banks have that, if yours doesnt change bank.

you dont get charges for going over drawn due to charges, cos thats illegal (you could argue well that 10 that came out wouldnt put me over drawn if you didnt charge me ect but thats a red herring)

ill be the first to admit the charges are excessive, cant remeber who said "my mum aint no retard" but ye, she really really is, if she can amount 3 grand in bank charges for only goign 5 -10 pounds over then really shes not right in the head, skip 1 mcdonalds a week an thats your 5-10 sorted....



/rant off

 

[Mey]

Huzzah!

 

[Jeros]

blah blah blah moan moan moan, i probly earn less than most of you and ive never been overdrawn once in my life, i can have a 500 overdraft if i want it but i dont even have it on my account,

i also save 250 a month which is like 25% of my take home

i have no sympathy, working in the bank i can tell you the majority of people hit with charges are fuckign scummy benifit scroungers and you look at thier direct debits an they got sky digital orange home (t'internet) vodaphone mobile ect ect


wah wah your bank charged me now i cant afford to feed my kids your banks a disgrace


fuck you get a job, or better yet drop the luxury items that i dont even use myself (pay as you go phone, analouge cable box still) CVNTS


the thing that gets me is most off you shouting off in here have no fucking idea how a bank works,

you dont get charges for less than £5 over your agreed limit its called a buffer, 90% of banks have that, if yours doesnt change bank.

you dont get charges for going over drawn due to charges, cos thats illegal (you could argue well that 10 that came out wouldnt put me over drawn if you didnt charge me ect but thats a red herring)

ill be the first to admit the charges are excessive, cant remeber who said "my mum aint no retard" but ye, she really really is, if she can amount 3 grand in bank charges for only goign 5 -10 pounds over then really shes not right in the head, skip 1 mcdonalds a week an thats your 5-10 sorted....



/rant off

Did you go to uni? did you ever have to live with almost no money, i have to go into debt just to live, i have no tv, i can barly afford to put pounds in the electricity meter, somtimes i dont have electricity full stop, i live on crap food as its all i can afford, and when im not studying im working, some people are closer to the poverty line than you might think because they have to be to get to where they want to get.

Oh and im not eligible for student loans or student bank accounts, JOY!

 

[gohan]

Did you go to uni? did you ever have to live with almost no money, i have to go into debt just to live, i have no tv, i can barly afford to put pounds in the electricity meter, somtimes i dont have electricity full stop, i live on crap food as its all i can afford, and when im not studying im working, some people are closer to the poverty line than you might think because they have to be to get to where they want to get.

Oh and im not eligible for student loans or student bank accounts, JOY!

no i didnt, going to uni is a choice, an if you have to live in near poverty to do it then fair paly to ya, just hope your doing somthing worth while, my mum's friend has 2 degrees an earns less then me, also 2-3 people doing same job as me with a degree or two, i didnt even do A level's

if your willing to work hard and show inniative (even if you cant spell) then you can get where you want to go more easily than you can with a degree, unless its a degree thats going to lead you straight into a job, like engeniering ect,

a friend of mine from DAOC has a degree in network engeniering and he sells cars ....

 

[Mey]

Did you go to uni? did you ever have to live with almost no money, i have to go into debt just to live, i have no tv, i can barly afford to put pounds in the electricity meter, somtimes i dont have electricity full stop, i live on crap food as its all i can afford, and when im not studying im working, some people are closer to the poverty line than you might think because they have to be to get to where they want to get.

*yawn* we're not talking about debt we are talking about unauthorised overdraft excesses..

 

[Roalith]

the thing that gets me is most off you shouting off in here have no fucking idea how a bank works,

you dont get charges for less than £5 over your agreed limit its called a buffer, 90% of banks have that, if yours doesnt change bank.

you dont get charges for going over drawn due to charges, cos thats illegal (you could argue well that 10 that came out wouldnt put me over drawn if you didnt charge me ect but thats a red herring)

I was going to write a much more considered, carefully worded reply, then realised it really wasn't worth responding so carefully to this utter codshit.

For a start, if you know so much about banking you'd also know that anything relating to charges isn't illegal, it's unlawful. Illegal implies criminal law, unlawful implies civil law - and it's civil law the banks are breaking, specifically the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999).

Now, would you like to tell me just how and with what evidence you came to the conclusion that the double-penalty is 'illegal', given that there is a huge amount of documentary evidence over at The Consumer Forums of banks repeatedly performing this same act? Hell, I even have the 6 year's worth of statements (Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act means a Bank legally has to provide you with this information for a £10 charge) which have several instances of exactly the same.

90% of banks do not have an automatic £5 buffer zone. Some few banks allow a 'first instance' £5 or £10 buffer zone, for example Lloyds TSB used to offer a £10 buffer for a first offense within a given 12 month period. Screw up a second time, of course, then you get whacked with a £40 penalty. Incidentally: Lloyds removed that buffer in around June last year, I believe it was.

 

[Jeros]

no i didnt, going to uni is a choice, an if you have to live in near poverty to do it then fair paly to ya, just hope your doing somthing worth while, my mum's friend has 2 degrees an earns less then me, also 2-3 people doing same job as me with a degree or two, i didnt even do A level's

if your willing to work hard and show inniative (even if you cant spell) then you can get where you want to go more easily than you can with a degree, unless its a degree thats going to lead you straight into a job, like engeniering ect,

a friend of mine from DAOC has a degree in network engeniering and he sells cars ....

Computer Science, then bugger off back to OZ, they are crying out for anyone IT qualified out there.

Sun, sea, sand, good money, cheap living, now thats motivation

 

[Mey]

I was going to write a much more considered, carefully worded reply, then realised it really wasn't worth responding so carefully to this utter codshit.

For a start, if you know so much about banking you'd also know that anything relating to charges isn't illegal, it's unlawful. Illegal implies criminal law, unlawful implies civil law - and it's civil law the banks are breaking, specifically the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999).

Now, would you like to tell me just how and with what evidence you came to the conclusion that the double-penalty is 'illegal', given that there is a huge amount of documentary evidence over at The Consumer Forums of banks repeatedly performing this same act? Hell, I even have the 6 year's worth of statements (Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act means a Bank legally has to provide you with this information for a £10 charge) which have several instances of exactly the same.

90% of banks do not have an automatic £5 buffer zone. Some few banks allow a 'first instance' £5 or £10 buffer zone, for example Lloyds TSB used to offer a £10 buffer for a first offense within a given 12 month period. Screw up a second time, of course, then you get whacked with a £40 penalty. Incidentally: Lloyds removed that buffer in around June last year, I believe it was.

haha wrong again, the £10 buffer that lloyds offer is still there for the first offence within a 12 month period. You just have to go in and ask politely if you go over, under it, for them to remove the charge.

 

[Roalith]

haha wrong again, the £10 buffer that lloyds offer is still there for the first offence within a 12 month period. You just have to go in and ask politely if you go over, under it, for them to remove the charge.

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Moneybox | Tougher penalties at Lloyds TSB

Even a simple fucking Google search proves you fail.

 

[Mey]

ye because bbc news know's how it works when they don't even fucking work for lloyds tsb.. I work there, K, thanks, bye. It is no longer an automatic thing, but if a customer comes in and asks for a charge to be removed and it's the first one within 12 months and under £10 it is removed as a good will gesture..


(Also that article was written more than a year ago - self owned.)

 

[Roalith]

"Good will gesture", "No longer an automatic thing".

It's also not in the terms and conditions of contract, and neither is it advertised. In fact, Lloyds TSB wrote to all of their customers informing them that they will no longer offer the buffer. So um... come again?

 

[Rubric]

haha wrong again, the £10 buffer that lloyds offer is still there for the first offence within a 12 month period. You just have to go in and ask politely if you go over, under it, for them to remove the charge.

So it exists but only if you know about it and ask for it?

What your saying is they charge automatically and hope you don't question it?

Sounds like an organisation trying to make money off of bank charges to me?

 

[Mey]

This is just my understanding of it (so don't go quoting it as cannon):

Its not advertised because we expect our customers to come in and talk to us when they are having difficulties with stuff. It's seen as a good will gesture because the bank doesn't have to do it (in terms of whats in the T&C's) but we do it because mistakes do, on the odd occasion, happen.

Regarding the bank error's causing charges: Anyone who was charged due to a bank error should go in and query it, because the standard policy (afaik) is that charges caused by banking errors are removed.

 

[Rubric]

However, he would not confirm or deny whether the new charge fulfilled the conditions for penalty charges laid down by the Office of Fair Trading. Lynn Parker, head of investigations into current accounts at the OFT, told Money Box last month "Banks are entitled to charge what it costs them when somebody defaults, and that would be limited to certain administrative costs but they're not allowed to profit from those default charges."
But when asked this week if the £35 charge for bouncing a payment was what it actually cost the bank, Gerrard Schmid, Head of Transactional Banking at Lloyds TSB, refused to answer. Asked if it reflected the costs 'yes or no' he sat in silence and the interview came to an end.

Case closed imo.

Banks in the wrong and lets hope the judge see's it that way too.

 

[Rubric]

mistakes do, on the odd occasion, happen.

MEY IN THE WORLD IS NOT BLACK & WHITE SHOCK REVELATION!

 

[Mey]

So it exists but only if you know about it and ask for it?

What your saying is they charge automatically and hope you don't question it?

To be honest mate you have no idea what you are talking about. For starters the people who are mostly likely to be affected by the buffer are those that will question it, because it's their first time in atleast 12 months, and consquently they will learn about it.

The people who are constantly in excess of their overdraft will not even be touched by the buffer.

 

[Mey]

I don't think I have ever said that mistakes don't happen? I think what you are seeing as me saying that mistakes didn't happen was me saying that mistakes were usually due to poor management. But hey-ho whatever turns you on.

 

[GReaper]

Regardless of whether people are overspending when they haven't got enough money to pay for it in the first place, these charges are rather extortionate. The law says that any charges shouldn't exceed the cost to the bank of exceeding a breach of the contract.

Do you consider £35 for a bounced cheque or direct debit lawful? Is it even close to the costs of processing the account for being overdrawn?

 

[Rubric]

I don't think I have ever said that mistakes don't happen? I think what you are seeing as me saying that mistakes didn't happen was me saying that mistakes were usually due to poor management. But hey-ho whatever turns you on.

The thing that gets my goat is that it isn't as simple as you make out.

To people like you, everyone on benefits is scum and anyone who falls on hard times has there selves to blame. While there are cases where this is true and maybe even the majority of cases, what i am saying is it's not always as cut and dried as you see it.

When you are in financial difficulty your bank are one of the hardest to deal with, particularly in relation to freezing charges and interest or agreeing an affordable repayment plan. This is not hearsay but my experiencing in dealing with Lloyds when trying to agree repayment with them on behalf of my wife. They are not interested in coming to a solution for the customer and the only reason you encurage people to come in and talk to you is so that you can sell them a loan they can't afford to make their situation worse and your company more money.

 

[Rubric]

Regardless of whether people are overspending when they haven't got enough money to pay for it in the first place, these charges are rather extortionate. The law says that any charges shouldn't exceed the cost to the bank of exceeding a breach of the contract.

Do you consider £35 for a bounced cheque or direct debit lawful? Is it even close to the costs of processing the account for being overdrawn?

As Gerrard Schmid's silence suggests, no.

 

[Mey]

Actually i'd say a loan was probably the best option, in order to consoldate all the debt into one place, ineffect reducing the total amount of interest payable. But there seems to be some taboo about loans, and as we are not really discussing it i'll stop.

I also I don't see all people on benefits as sucm.

 

[Mabs]

banks exist to make money
they do this by fucking people over.
you ever wonder why, if you take £10 out of a cashpoint, it shows on your account immediately, but if you pay it in, it wont clear for a few days (unless its cash?). it can clear in seconds but they like to keep it in "holding" while it "clears", make a nice % profit on it, then hand it on to you.
you go overdrawn, they charge you their going rate - last one i saw was X amount for each £10 or PART THEROF :
you go OD £9.0 , they charge you, say, £10
you go OD £10.01 , they charge you £20
then suddenly your £50 overdrawn and your fucked.

end of the day its ok for them to make ridiculous profits off our money while they are holding it but woe betide anyone who owes the banks anything.

people need to learn they are in it to MAKE money, not to help you

 

[Mey]

Lol @ the understanding of the cheque clearance system. I can give you a number of reason why we have clearance.

A.) not all banks are online.
B.) Cheque fraud.
C.) One bank can't access another banks accounts - therefore if chq from bank a, is paid into bank b, bank b has no way of knowing whether bank a will honour that cheque untill it's been through the clearance system.
D.) Some banks are not real time, without clearance this would be open to so much abuse.

Sure bank's are there to make money, but the way in which they make money isn't by screwing people over, it's mainly by investing money on the markets.

Also the way in which the clearance system works, the money doesn't leave the account of the person who has written the cheque until the last day of clearance. So the bank is hardly holding on to the money..

 

[Rubric]

Actually i'd say a loan was probably the best option, in order to consoldate all the debt into one place, ineffect reducing the total amount of interest payable. But there seems to be some taboo about loans, and as we are not really discussing it i'll stop.

I also I don't see all people on benefits as sucm.

how is a loan the best option?

Mr Rubric goes to the bank.

Mr Rubric: oops terribly sorry but the company i have just staretd working for has gone bust. I find myself on job seekers currently and because i dipped into my overdraft to get my car MOT'd so i could commute to the company i just started working for I have an overdraft of £300 which was agreed with you for 3 months which is reducing by £100 each month. Now i am not in a position to repay anything for this period other than a token payment of £1 a week. Here is my income & expenditure to show you the situation i am in. I have been to the CAB and they have advised me to request that you open me a new basic current account and freeze interest and charges on my current account. Can we sort that out?

Mey: Well Mr Rubric we can offer you a loan over the next year for £50 a month.

Mr Rubric: Erm no i don't think that solution is helping to stop me from increasing my indebtedness to you. Can you do as the CAB suggested and freeze the interest and charges on this account and as soon as i am back in work i will notify you of my change of circumstances and agree a new repayment plan with you?

Mey: Sorry Mr Rubric its a loan or you carry on struggling and we will continue to raise interest and charges on your account.

Mr Rubric: Thats doesn't really have my as the customers best interests at the heart of it.

Mey: Security can you show Mr Rubric the door please.

Edit: My figures didn't add up

 

[Rubric]

Lol @ the understanding of the cheque clearance system. I can give you a number of reason why we have clearance.

A.) not all banks are online.
B.) Cheque fraud.
C.) One bank can't access another banks accounts - therefore if chq from bank a, is paid into bank b, bank b has no way of knowing whether bank a will honour that cheque untill it's been through the clearance system.
D.) Some banks are not real time, without clearance this would be open to so much abuse.

Sure bank's are there to make money, but the way in which they make money isn't by screwing people over, it's mainly by investing money on the markets.



Also the way in which the clearance system works, the money doesn't leave the account of the person who has written the cheque until the last day of clearance. So the bank is hardly holding on to the money..

Other than for that last day. I wonder how much the banks make in interest on that one day across all the cheques they are processing? And what abouts bacs transfers? What the excuse for 3 days on that one then?

 

[Roalith]

RE: Cheque clearance, maybe one of the Middies here can confirm, but isn't it Sweden and Denmark which, between all major banks, have an agreed 'instantaneous' (IE: Usually an hour to an hour and a half) clearance period?

 

[Mey]

Rubric when we were talking about a loan being the best option i didn't think we were talking about a few hundred quid of debt. In that case, i'd never suggest a loan as being the best option, reduction in the overdraft (as you say is clearly a better option).

When it comes to 1000's of pounds spread all over the place a Loan really is the best way of being able to manage it.

 

[Mey]

RE: Cheque clearance, maybe one of the Middies here can confirm, but isn't it Sweden and Denmark which, between all major banks, have an agreed 'instantaneous' (IE: Usually an hour to an hour and a half) clearance period?

Not all banks in the uk are online or real time.