Baby Peter the Verdict

[Yoni]

Tricky - I cant see how a person can be pro-life to the extent of saying theres no circumstances where a person should be executed but then not condemn the killing of thousands of completely innocent babies just because abortion is socially accepted?

Yes it is a tricky one and I do think about things like this a lot. My views on abortion are such that I believe that it is the individuals decision and their conscience.

I am lucky that I have never been faced with a decision like this, however (although there are probably a few), I doubt many people would put themselves through this kind of trauma without a lot of thought. Can you imagine the kind of thought process a woman would have to go through to actually go for a back street abortion? Or even attempt this herself? Normally individuals weigh up the pros and cons of an action before going through with it. What must the alternatives have been for women deciding to have an illegal abortion or do it themselves?

As for abortion being socially accepted. I think that society appreciates that it happens but it is not so accepted that it becomes a part of day to day conversation. I do not think that those who have this procedure feel particularly pleased or proud of themselves. Those friends I have who have had this procedure have usually required much support and counseling.

Moving back to this case

I sit here and imagine myself being the executioner in this case and all the other cases that appear regularly on these forums. The questions I ask myself are; how would I feel if I had to pull the lever, flip the switch, administer the injection and do you know something, I could not do it, nor could I watch, and I definitely couldn't cheer along with a crowd.

 

[rynnor]

Can you imagine the kind of thought process a woman would have to go through to actually go for a back street abortion? Or even attempt this herself?

I'm not sure how thats relevant - in this country its legal and we did about 100,000 last year - thats about 1 for every hundred women of child-bearing age - that sounds pretty socially acceptable to me when its that common?

It seems strange in these years of easily available contraception that we have so many abortions going on - some for minor cosmetic reasons.

Many people push the 'its a womens choice' issue but if they kill the same child after birth its suddenly murder - odd eh?

 

[rynnor]

Too late to edit so new post:

Boy was I wrong - the figure for last year was nearly 200,000 abortions in England and Wales - thats about 1 in 50 women of childbearing age and the stats dont look good on repeated abortions, 65,000 were having their 2nd or 3rd, or 4th or etc. etc.

20,000 abortions on teenagers under 18, 1500 of which were on their 2nd or 3rd abortion.

Makes pretty grim reading - its clear that a sizable number of women are just treating it as a contraception method rather than an emergency procedure.

 

[tris-]

Maybe I am misinformed, but isnt the fetus aborted before it has any resemblance to a human?
I thought it was still a blob of cells, while taking some form, is not yet a human and therfore cannot be 'murdered in the womb'. I dont have a problem with abortion in most cases, but it gets a bit iffy when were doing genetic screening like a pick and mix of babies at woolworths. I dont feel it is right to have that much information when it comes to an abortion.

 

[Ch3tan]

Maybe I am misinformed, but isnt the fetus aborted before it has any resemblance to a human?
I thought it was still a blob of cells, while taking some form, is not yet a human and therfore cannot be 'murdered in the womb'. I dont have a problem with abortion in most cases, but it gets a bit iffy when were doing genetic screening like a pick and mix of babies at woolworths. I dont feel it is right to have that much information when it comes to an abortion.

Without getting sidetracked into a completely different debate here:

Facts of Fetal Development

You can get an abortion up to the 24th week in the UK. The link will show you the stage of development. It may shock you.

For what it is worth, using the US terminology, I am pro choice. Especially with society the way it is, I do not think any child should be born to a parent or family that does not want it.


edit:// hard to find links from websites that are not part of some pro-life campaign, but eventually did: http://www.babyexpert.com/index.php...-in-pictures/editorialgallery?aid=48771&pic=1

 

[rynnor]

For what it is worth, using the US terminology, I am pro choice. Especially with society the way it is, I do not think any child should be born to a parent or family that does not want it.

Hmm - who was it said 'you can judge a civilisation by the way it treats those most powerless within it'?

It may be inconvenient to be pregnant but these are human lives we are talking about.

For anyone who is squeamish about the execution of murderers you sure as hell dont want to look at how a 'late term abortion' is carried out - we did some 2000 of these in the UK last year for things as minor as a cleft lip.

 

[Ch3tan]

See for me it is not just about when you would consider the baby "alive", although I do agree that the current time frame for abortions is too much. It is more about the standard of life for the baby AND the parents if they have the baby.

 

[Calaen]

I sit here and imagine myself being the executioner in this case and all the other cases that appear regularly on these forums. The questions I ask myself are; how would I feel if I had to pull the lever, flip the switch, administer the injection and do you know something, I could not do it, nor could I watch, and I definitely couldn't cheer along with a crowd.

now when I do the same, I could flip that switch without any concerns, I would not bat an eyelid for either of their lives.

Killing someone with the flick of a switch is too good for the bastrds that could do that to a child. Now I could not commit torture however we could employ some high risk criminals to carry out the punishment for us as a payment to society for letting them breath.

 

[tris-]

For anyone who is squeamish about the execution of murderers you sure as hell dont want to look at how a 'late term abortion' is carried out - we did some 2000 of these in the UK last year for things as minor as a cleft lip.

I dont agree with doing this stuff. Abortion should be based on factors which never include the characteristics of the fetus.

 

[Mabs]

now when I do the same, I could flip that switch without any concerns, I would not bat an eyelid for either of their lives.

Killing someone with the flick of a switch is too good for the bastrds that could do that to a child. Now I could not commit torture however we could employ some high risk criminals to carry out the punishment for us as a payment to society for letting them breath.

i agree with cal

i feel dirty

 

[Yoni]

Well as someone wise once told me if you feel guilty then you know you have done something wrong

No one is saying that your ability to kill murderers is bad... all I am saying is that it is not something I could do.