Av

[ilaya]

Rutherglen:

WIG!!!!!

and they even had Frankie Boyle doing the sign language

 

[ford prefect]

Lab started the idea of involving the private sector in the NHS.

Indeed they did, and it was necessary. These proposals however, especially the private sector commissioning services for GP's is a sure fire way for the private sector to start determining when services are available and who for. That is the polar opposite of using the private sector to suppliment services.

The Welsh seem to be voting themselves more powers, we are still paying the scots too much - nothing is different.

The Welsh are yes, although not as many as they would like - but devolution does affect 14% of voters making it a large and important issue for them and a huge political question for the UK as a whole.

Read my first point.

I agree manifesto's are generally very misleading, partly because no party has any real idea of what will and won't be practical should it come to government because governmental policies aren't transparent enough. As for the Europe conservative, liberal and labour policies are all different in terms of the way they wish to interact with the EU and the and the amount of control we should allow the EU over UK policy.

Its semantics - we will never know the specifics of what Lab would have done because they didnt get in - its all nonsense when neither side will tackle European migration anyway

To be honest they are both wrong. We are living in an ageing population such strict control on immigration is incredibly short sighted. Within the next fifty years we are going to have a vast amount of old people all requiring medical care and benefits, with a much lower ratio of younger tax payers to pay for it. We need young immigrant families. Simple as that really.

Interesting view when all the analysis says the middle classes are the big losers.

So why are traditionally working class northern cities like Liverpool, Doncaster and Sunderland operating on 38% less government funding while the most affulent areas, including West Oxfordshite (David Camerons seat) are getting a 33% increase in budget? And how do you expect VAT increases on everything to affect the middle earners in a greater proportion to low earners?

Changes that were first being proposed under Lab.

The Equality act was indeed written by Labour and the conservatives apposed it, which is why only a highly modified version got through. The Personal Independence Paytement is strictly a tory invention and as a piece of legislation it is truely terrible. I can promise you it will see more disabled people unable to work, because for many it will remove their indepence.

I think you need a reality check - the Uni's had to do this because their budgets were cut - their budgets were cut because of the defecit - Lab has no magic wand to wave to make money appear.

I absolutely agree, fee's were necessary, however essentially giving universities carte blanche to charge £9000, essentially trebling university fee's in a climate where 10 people are after each place available is a smiple way of ostracizing people from specific financial backgrounds while not having to provide more places and more universities. And yes, I aware of the costs, but education is always an investment in the future of the economy.

When they trialled the tougher testing 60% turned out to be chancers - 25% looks un-ambitious now.

I sit on the First-tier Tribunal Panel for the Judiciary hearing Invalidity Benefit Appeals 25 days per year and my partner does the same for DLA, and I can tell you categorically that those figures are nonsense.

Again you seem to be unaware that the bottomless pit of borrowing has run dry - you think Lab wouldnt have cut things?

I am sure Labour would have cut things, obviously there has been no choice but to do so. However I think the timeframe, the severity and the objects of those cuts are all questionable. The only positive thing Osbourne has done so far is to cut corporation tax as far as I can see.

The NHS has seen its budget rise - you might like 200% a year rises to your budgets but alas the country cant afford them

Yeah of course it has. They gave the NHS a 0.1% above inflation rise, then instigated a £1billion spending cut. All of this while we are short on Consultants and Nursing staff (who happen to be the lowest paid public sector workers), while having pay frozen for two years and training budgets drastically cut. The Nursing profession has one of the highest staff turnover rates of any profession, so where are the replacement Nurses coming from? Imigration? Oh wait, see above.

You cant make a significant dent to the defecit without cutting pretty much everything - arguably the NHS should have been included.

It was included through a lot of background legislation. Services like policing, the NHS and Eduication are paramount to the future of this country and its society. Targetting them so harshly is false economy. I am not saying there shouldn't have been cuts, I have been argueing for cuts in middle management in the NHS professionally nearly a decade, but ultimately these cuts are in the wrong place and severe enough to have some serious long term consequences.[/quote]

If in your cloud cuckoo land all the big budgets like welfare, education, the NHS etc were all protected how would you ever reduce the defecit - scrap all the armed forces?

I'm saying simply that the UK economy is especially sensitive as we are a welfare state. It needs to be treated with great care. Standards of living need to be protected (especially for those on lower / middle incomes), spending needs to increase. The private sector is on its knees and these cuts are crippling the public sector too without significantly helping the private sector. Obviously there is a paradox where spending more on unemployment is only going to make the deficit worse, but ultimately investment needs to be put in place for outling areas such as parts of Wales, Scotland and the NorthEast, to attract businesses where their is a plentiful and willing workforce just waiting on opportunites and that includes manufacturing, which as of last month was at its all time low.

 

[rynnor]

I'm saying simply that the UK economy is especially sensitive as we are a welfare state. It needs to be treated with great care. Standards of living need to be protected (especially for those on lower / middle incomes), spending needs to increase.

I am staggered - you really are divorced from reality inside your comfy NHS hidey hole - how can spending increase when you have no money and are up to your eye's in debt???

How can you protect standards of living when we need increased tax revenues to get us out of trouble?

Its your kind of thinking that theres this bottomless pit of money and you just need to demand more that has lead us into a massive spending spree we as a nation couldnt afford.

The private sector is on its knees and these cuts are crippling the public sector too without significantly helping the private sector.

Speaking as someone who works in the private sector it is not 'on its knee's' - things are going guardedly well but with worries about what will happen when the cuts really bite.

but ultimately investment needs to be put in place for outling areas such as parts of Wales, Scotland and the NorthEast, to attract businesses where their is a plentiful and willing workforce just waiting on opportunites and that includes manufacturing, which as of last month was at its all time low.

Why? Our mistake before was propping up these areas by flooding them with public sector non-jobs. It means when the cuts came these places would be hit harder.

You cant have an area which is solely maintained from the public purse - these people need to get themselves to where the jobs are.

If there's few private sector jobs in these area's its usually for good reasons - geographical location, lack of the required skills etc. etc.

Some of these things you cant do anything about.

 

[Aoami]

lol dems

 

[megadave]

looks like AV is getting shitted on, oh well, guess we get to keep the mighty shit FPTP for several more decades

 

[Ch3tan]

money talks, the no to AV campaign was very wide spread and played on public fears. the Yes campaign was hardly heard from. Also people struck out at the lib dems via this referendum. A real shame. So many of my family and friends had no idea what AV meant, they don't even understand FTPT

 

[Aoami]

It wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

inb4 'step in the right direction'.

 

[georgie]

So many of my family and friends had no idea what AV meant, they don't even understand FTPT

I'm not sure I do either, unless you meant FPTP.

 

[Lamp]

James Whale (radio jock) was talking about the low turnout and voter apathy & advocated that voting should be compulsory to make sure everyone is involved in the democratic process. But wouldn't that be undemocratic?

 

[Aoami]

You can force people to vote but you can't force people to take an interest in who or what they are voting for.

It's a stupid idea.

 

[megadave]

thank god for the british people, i was worried all those little babies were going to die

 

[Zenith.UK]

James Whale (radio jock) was talking about the low turnout and voter apathy & advocated that voting should be compulsory to make sure everyone is involved in the democratic process. But wouldn't that be undemocratic?

Do what Australia do.
Make voting compulsory, but have an additional option "None of the above".

 

[- English -]

Do what Australia do.
Make voting compulsory, but have an additional option "None of the above".

I have no obligation with people not voting .. just tell them to stfu when they moan about anything political.

 

[Will]

So many of my family and friends had no idea what AV meant, they don't even understand FPTP

Given how complicated the Scottish system is (I'm the only person I know who understands it) and yet it still works, the too complicated argument was always a load of shit. Both the Yes and No campaigns were amazing low points for political campaigning in the UK.

 

[Ch3tan]

Given how complicated the Scottish system is (I'm the only person I know who understands it) and yet it still works, the too complicated argument was always a load of shit. Both the Yes and No campaigns were amazing low points for political campaigning in the UK.

Yep. They both hurt my head with how much BS they got away with. If we weren't so apathetic as a nation we could do a *insert north african state here* and force some real change.

 

[Will]

The Channel 4 News Factcheck blog (which I linked to earlier) was very good on AV and is generally very good on checking the veracity of politician's claims.

Actually, here you go. Add it to your RSS feed.