Av

[Wij]

Lol! What?

Lab/Con - would raise VAT - Con got in and raised vat.
Lab/Con would cut public spending to reduce defecit - Con got in and started cuts.
Lab/Con would protect NHS budget - Con got in and protected NHS budget.
Lab budget was waved through by Con.
Both like student fee's, both wanted more private companies doing civil service work - public/private partnerships etc. etc.

If they didnt favour different colours at the election you'd be hard put to tell them apart.

Yes, but Labour aren't in power so they can SAY they oppose all of them now

 

[ford prefect]

Lol! What?

Lab/Con - would raise VAT - Con got in and raised vat.
Lab/Con would cut public spending to reduce defecit - Con got in and started cuts.
Lab/Con would protect NHS budget - Con got in and protected NHS budget.
Lab budget was waved through by Con.
Both like student fee's, both wanted more private companies doing civil service work - public/private partnerships etc. etc.

If they didnt favour different colours at the election you'd be hard put to tell them apart.

/sigh

The NHS budget hasn't been protected, within the next 3 there will be at least a £1billion per year cut in real terms. I know, I manage an NHS budget and I am going to have to loose 30 front line staff before 2015 and we are understaffed as it is. I will be leaving at that point too, not because I have been asked but simply because I won't be able to guaruntee the health and safety of my staff with those cuts.

Differences between the big three? Hmm, the NHS, Devolution, Europe, Immigration & Asylum Seekers, Taxes, Equality & Diversity, Education, Crime, Pensions, The Environment, The Welfare State, The Economy, Policing in Northern Ireland and Policing in Mainland UK; Do I need to go on?

Sure the manifesto’s are a lot closer than they used to be and none of the main three parties are getting it right and with AV a little more common sense might just eventually prevail.

 

[Ch3tan]

There aren't any differences though Ford. Labour only say they wouldn't have done differently because they can; they don't have to justify it, just be more popular than those in power.

 

[Gwadien]

Politics is simples, Labour make you rich, Tories make you poor.

 

[rynnor]

Politics is simples, Labour make you rich, Tories make you poor.

If you are on benefits.

 

[Ch3tan]

Politics is simples, Labour make you rich, Tories make you poor.

Wow.

 

[Gwadien]

Wow.

I know, I should be a politics professor eh?

 

[rynnor]

Differences between the big three? Hmm, the NHS, Devolution, Europe, Immigration & Asylum Seekers, Taxes, Equality & Diversity, Education, Crime, Pensions, The Environment, The Welfare State, The Economy, Policing in Northern Ireland and Policing in Mainland UK; Do I need to go on?

What big 3? The Lib Dem MPs are largely dead men walking - they will be devastated at the next election.

Judge by actions - not by words - the reality is that it didnt matter who got in because they would have done the same things.


NHS- Lab would have done no more - even they realised the money was gone.
Devolution - is that a major issue for the majority of voters - I think not.
Europe - we still seem to be in the EU - we still baled out the eurozone - what would have been different?

Immigration & Asylum Seekers - we still get in both, Labour were making the same vague noises as Con about doing something - very little has changed tho.
Taxes - both would have put them up - its still the better off paying the larger proportion,
Equality & Diversity - are you serious? they are identical on this.
Education - all govts interfere and screw this up - no change, labour brought in the fee's - I'm seeing no difference here.
Crime - they both think its a bad idea but have little idea about tackling it.
Pensions - Labour initiated the review - its cross party.
The Environment - they all believe in global warming (or say they do)
The Welfare State - Labour started the review of people on invalidity benefit
The Economy - they both knew they had to cut public spending.
Policing in Northern Ireland - ??? I cant see any difference.
Policing in Mainland UK - likewise.

Got any actual differences?

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Politics is simples, Labour make you rich, Tories make you poor.

Is that why I got poorer and poorer under Labour gov, like most people?

 

[Ch3tan]

I know, I should be a politics professor eh?

No, I can't figure out if you are joking or just incredibly dense.

 

[Bugz]

Europe - we still seem to be in the EU - we still baled out the eurozone - what would have been different?

The rest I, to an extent, agree with but come on - being in the Eurozone and helping to bail them out and stabilise the world economy are two very different things. Gordon Brown famous five criteria are frankly darn good. The Tories appear to be much less economically-rigouress in this respect, stating numerous times they simply won't join the EU.

 

[Aoami]

AV is win win for the torys. No one is going to vote Lib Dem (surely), and staunch labour & tory voters are unlikely to rank a preferred second candidate. Most floating voters wont turn up as usual because they don't care/want any of them. Torys give the country this referendum (which is looks like will turn out with a No vote anyway) so look like the good guys, and would still win under AV anyway.

The big losers are the Lib Dems. They traded tuition fees not rising for the AV referendum which probably wont go through and lost a massive part of their demographic because of Cleggs soulless behaviour.

Labour would stand to benefit, as whatever Lib Dem voters remain are much more likely to put down Labour as a second choice over Cons.

This isn't the 'step in the right direction' that people are claiming it is. It won't go through, and as a result there probably wont be another referendum in our lifetime. It's a token gesture from the people in power. If Labour were to win the next election we'd perhaps see another vote, with PR as an option, but it's unlikely as if this is really costing the estimated £300m to the tax payer I would expect strong opposition.

 

[- English -]

Well tbh i couldnt care less about the lib dems, considering most of their voters did so because they fancied nick clegg or along those lines.

And I think labour and the tories do-do things alot differently .. look at Brown and regulating the banks when the tories said otherwise. Hes even admitted making the mistakes so GL trying to counter that one labourscum

 

[Lamp]

Politics is simples, Labour make you rich, Tories make you poor.

:lol:

 

[old.user4556]

Is that why I got poorer and poorer under Labour gov, like most people?

No, I can't figure out if you are joking or just incredibly dense.

:lol:

These.

I voted yes to AV.

I voted SNP for government only because a) I hate Labour b) The Torries have no chance of getting into power in Scotland which is frankly sad c) the SNP are a true and viable alternative to Labour / Tory north of the border.

With regards to Scotland, I do believe that Fat Alex has it's best interests at heart.

 

[Raven]

With regards to Scotland, I do believe that Fat Alex has his own best interests at heart.

Fixed it for you

 

[old.user4556]

All politicians are the same. Nick Clegg tried to be different, and look what happened there .

 

[kiliarien]

I will vote yes to AV - and currently the poll results say it's 55% for AV, 'we've' already won using FPTP!! Muhahaha!!

Stop the poll!!

 

[ford prefect]

What big 3? The Lib Dem MPs are largely dead men walking - they will be devastated at the next election.

Judge by actions - not by words - the reality is that it didnt matter who got in because they would have done the same things.


NHS- Lab would have done no more - even they realised the money was gone.

Obviously labour have a lot to answer for however, in the long run the currently proposed conservative changes are going to reduce patient care while actually increasing costs as the private sector becomes more involved.

Devolution - is that a major issue for the majority of voters - I think not.

Of course it isn't, well unless you live in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland where the UK government views on powers of devolution directly impact on every day politics, like hmm, the Welsh conservatives plan not to ringfence NHS budgets.

Europe - we still seem to be in the EU - we still baled out the eurozone - what would have been different?

Oh please! Read some manifestos.

Immigration & Asylum Seekers - we still get in both, Labour were making the same vague noises as Con about doing something - very little has changed tho.

No Labour where going to put more stringent rules in place, this government is actively going to cap asylum seekers, which I am sure if you were such a person, you would agree is a world of difference.

Taxes - both would have put them up - its still the better off paying the larger proportion

Indeed, but in my view the current taxes typically have a much larger impact on low income families than they do anyone else.

Equality & Diversity - are you serious? they are identical on this.

This government allowed around 70% of the 2010 Equality act through, and dismissed the rest. They then used that legislation to pass through changes to Disability Living Allowence - chaning it to Personal Indepenence Payment and ultimately removing that benefit from many people who rely on it to maintain their independance.

Education - all govts interfere and screw this up - no change, labour brought in the fee's - I'm seeing no difference here.

Indeed, but I doubt that Labour would allow universities like oxford to charge £9000 per year and I feel they would have a little more to say (equality & diversity again) about the fact that black ethnic minority admissions where at their lowest for over 15 years this year.

Crime - they both think its a bad idea but have little idea about tackling it.
Pensions - Labour initiated the review - its cross party.

Actually I agree, but they do have very different approaches to the problem.

The Environment - they all believe in global warming (or say they do)

Absolutely, and actually the conservatives probably have the superior green policies, but again, very different from Labour. It is odd though that given the conservative policies they have cut research massively in that area.[/quote]

The Welfare State - Labour started the review of people on invalidity benefit

Yes they did, and three independant reports and a DWP report gave a figure for fraudulant claims of between 5 and 6 %. In the nest three years the current plans aim to remove at least 25% of people from that benefit.

The Economy - they both knew they had to cut public spending.

Indeed., It is just a question of where, when and how they disagree on.

Policing in Northern Ireland - ??? I cant see any difference.

Northern Ireland's policing budget will be cut by £260 million over the next four years. The prison service over there will have its budget cut my £60 million. [/quote]

Policing in Mainland UK - likewise.

Mainland police forces face a 20% cut across the board, again with largely frontline staff facing the brunt of the cuts.

Got any actual differences?

Yes, all of the above.

I'm not saying that cuts aren't needed, because they obviously are, but in the first instance this government has targetted vulnerable citizens, the NHS, education and frontline Policing. It could be me, but that seems like the polar opposite of left wing policies, even New Labour ones. I am not saying any particular party is right or wrong on the whole, but with AV, which was actually the point of this thread it will put MP's under pressure to actually listen to their constituents, not just their party leaders if they want to keep their seats.

 

[Deebs]

Fuck I need to give rep to you for using the most multi quotes in a single post.

FEI (For Everyones Information) I voted Conservative (fucking hate those labour *****) and no to the AV referendum. I just cannot believe in a mishmash system and at this point in time the AV system just presents itself to me.

 

[Ch3tan]

. If Labour were to win the next election we'd perhaps see another vote, with PR as an option, but it's unlikely as if this is really costing the estimated £300m to the tax payer I would expect strong opposition.

No chance, neither the tories or labour want PR. It scares the shit out of them.

 

[ford prefect]

No chance, neither the tories or labour want PR. It scares the shit out of them.

Yeah I agree, and its a shame really. We are not fond of political change in this country and we are generally happy to make do with the status quo.

 

[Gwadien]

Fuck I need to give rep to you for using the most multi quotes in a single post.

Already done it

 

[Deebs]

Already done it

He so rightly deserved it.

 

[Embattle]

If this level of poor quality politics continues then more and more people won't bother voting full stop.

 

[ford prefect]

It is always worth voting, even if just to spoil the ballot paper as they are used in the overall count and while there is merit to the arguement that the issue will simply be descided by less voters, spoiled papers do help determine the general discontent of the electorate.

 

[Zenith.UK]

If this level of poor quality politics continues then more and more people won't bother voting full stop.

Don't you get the impression that's the ultimate idea?
Apathy plays straight into the hands of career politicians.

MPs shouldn't become complacent. They need to be reminded just how tenuous their position really is if Joe Public decides to change their mind.

 

[Job]

Lifes too good for the vast majority to give a fook about 'labels' like left and right, we just go for personalities and get the politicians we deserve.

 

[Larossa]

I was reminiscing the other day with a friend about the old days when there were more parties to vote for, if you were not keen on either tory or labour you could vote

• Adam Lyal's Witchery Tour Party (defunct)
• Church of the Militant Elvis Party
• Citizens for Undead Rights and Equality - They fielded four candidates in the United Kingdom general election, 2010.
• Death, Dungeons and Taxes Party
• Dog Lovers Party (defunct)
• Fancy Dress Party
• Glow Bowling Party (defunct)
• Happening Happy Hippy Party (not actually a political party, but perceived as one by many)
• Hardcore: You Know the Score party (defunct) - The early 90s rave outfit Altern8 formed a party which stood in the 1992 general election.
• I Want to Drop a Blancmange Down Terry Wogan's Y-Fronts Party, for which Pamela Stephenson stood for parliament[6]
• Mongolian Barbecue Great Place to Party: it stood in the 1997 election, scoring just 112 votes in Wimbledon,[7][8] but achieved some fame through its absurd name, which was argued to be one of a wave of new parties that were using their name to advertise.[9]
• New Millennium Bean Party
• Miss Great Britain Party, a political party in the United Kingdom founded in 2008, whose candidates are mostly women who have entered the Miss Great Britain beauty contest
• Official Monster Raving Loony Party
• Raving Loony Green Giant Party (defunct)
• Rock 'n' Roll Loony Party (defunct)
• Scottish Jacobite Party
• Teddy Bear Alliance (defunct)

Other parties, such as the Corrective Party or the Rainbow Alliance, were often seen as frivolous, but included some genuine policy aims in their manifestos.

Taken off wikipedia but I always thought this was a better way of spoiling your vote.

 

[rynnor]

I think in general you are making the mistake of judging the parties by the nonsense in their manifesto's not what they actually do!

Obviously labour have a lot to answer for however, in the long run the currently proposed conservative changes are going to reduce patient care while actually increasing costs as the private sector becomes more involved.

Lab started the idea of involving the private sector in the NHS.

Of course it isn't, well unless you live in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland where the UK government views on powers of devolution directly impact on every day politics, like hmm, the Welsh conservatives plan not to ringfence NHS budgets.

The welsh seem to be voting themselves more powers, we are still paying the scots too much - nothing is different.

Oh please! Read some manifestos.

Read my first point.

No Labour where going to put more stringent rules in place, this government is actively going to cap asylum seekers, which I am sure if you were such a person, you would agree is a world of difference.

Its semantics - we will never know the specifics of what Lab would have done because they didnt get in - its all nonsense when neither side will tackle European migration anyway

Indeed, but in my view the current taxes typically have a much larger impact on low income families than they do anyone else.

Interesting view when all the analysis says the middle classes are the big losers.

This government allowed around 70% of the 2010 Equality act through, and dismissed the rest. They then used that legislation to pass through changes to Disability Living Allowence - chaning it to Personal Indepenence Payment and ultimately removing that benefit from many people who rely on it to maintain their independance.

Changes that were first being proposed under Lab.

Indeed, but I doubt that Labour would allow universities like oxford to charge £9000 per year and I feel they would have a little more to say (equality & diversity again) about the fact that black ethnic minority admissions where at their lowest for over 15 years this year.

I think you need a reality check - the Uni's had to do this because their budgets were cut - their budgets were cut because of the defecit - Lab has no magic wand to wave to make money appear.

Yes they did, and three independant reports and a DWP report gave a figure for fraudulant claims of between 5 and 6 %. In the nest three years the current plans aim to remove at least 25% of people from that benefit.

When they trialled the tougher testing 60% turned out to be chancers - 25% looks un-ambitious now.

Northern Ireland's policing budget will be cut by £260 million over the next four years. The prison service over there will have its budget cut my £60 million.

Again you seem to be unaware that the bottomless pit of borrowing has run dry - you think Lab wouldnt have cut things?

I'm not saying that cuts aren't needed, because they obviously are, but in the first instance this government has targetted vulnerable citizens, the NHS, education and frontline Policing.

The NHS has seen its budget rise - you might like 200% a year rises to your budgets but alas the country cant afford them

You cant make a significant dent to the defecit without cutting pretty much everything - arguably the NHS should have been included.

If in your cloud cuckoo land all the big budgets like welfare, education, the NHS etc were all protected how would you ever reduce the defecit - scrap all the armed forces?