audio shizzle

[TdC]

Well, after a short discussion with a home-audio minded friend about perhaps ditching my AV set for a sweet stereo hifi, my AV heard me and the right front channel decided to break :/

Now I have a couple options: get the (10yo Onkyo 595) receiver fixed (meh), get a new stereo hifi thingy, new speakers and a (small) sub (yay), or finally, not get any of that but just get a current, similar model, for example an Onkyo 876 (yay).

Me being me, I have drawn up a list of things I could do:

• fix (imo not worth it, the amp is 10yo and has served me well enough)
  
• get a new AV amp, for example an Onkyo 876 but I can't find those anywhere, only it's bigger brother the 906, which I am *not* getting because they cost 2000 euros :/ (on the other hand, here in the NL a new stereo hifi, a pair of speakers and a subwoofer all together will set me back about that amount too) but I could also go for something like a NAD T755, which I can currently get for 900e.
  
• get a whole new set, but *stereo*, not 5 or 7.1 of which I am thinking:
  • AMP: something like a NAD C355BEE. Sweet amp, nice reviews, not too stupidly expensive, or an Arcam FMJ-A28, equally sweet on paper, nice reviews, etc. Note, I haven't listened to either of them yet, and your advice/input would be nice to hear.
  • SPKRS: currently I am absolutely torn between the ELAC 310 CE, which has rave reviews and looks awesome, it's brother the ELAC BS 244, and the Monitor Audio GS 10, which is an extremely well received and reviewed speaker. Ofc, as with the amps, I have not heard any of these speakers, and would require listening to them with the amp and sub I have in mind. I just realized that ELAC may not mean a lot to you UK types, but the speakers are pretty awesome tbh
  • SUB: I don't really listen to bangin' tjooonz, but I do like my musics, so I want a small and well mannered sub to fill out the sound without making my neighbors want to kill me. I am thinking of a REL T3. Again, I will have to hear the whole combination of stuff to be sold on any of the components.

Sorry if I don't link to anything, I have serveral Dutch sites open but I suppose none of those will interest you and only cause pity at the insane prices us Eurolanders have to pay (yes, yes, I know the UK is expensive blah blah etc etc )

Anyway, here is the thing

STEREO PROS:

• I listen to music way more than I watch movies, so a stereo set is really more logical.
• the new stuffs will give me pretty noises and nice hardware stuffs to nerdgasm over
• I get to do away with the space-consuming 5 speakers I have cluttering my room.

STEREO CONS:

• it's at least 2500 euros to get me the stuffs I want and I am not even going terribly overboard tbh imo bbq
• unsure about connecting my set-top box to the stereo amp for sound. it already goes into my 1080p tv with a fricking scart because my cable company is too cheap to give me a hdmi stb :/
• wtf do I do with my PS/3? stick it on the aux or something?
• no more dolby when I watch a movie (not that I notice)

AV PROS:

• a new AV amp will let me HDMI the PS/3 into it and then into my TV
• a new AV amp should let me stick the SCART from the stb into it, then upscale and HDMI into the TV (ooo yum)
• I will keep my existing speakers until they bore me (more than they do already)

AV CONS:

• no nice new speakers

anyway, advice please

 

[Ch3tan]

If money is an object go the AV option. Ideally you would have both the stereo amp + cd player + stereo speakers, and an AV + surround speakers.

 

[TdC]

meh, money is *always* an object

I'm willing to spend "around" a thousand euros on an AV set. I'm willing to spend "around" two grand on a stereo hifi with new speakers. Something like that. I'm just feeling blah because the current av amp is breaking :/

 

[Ch3tan]

Well my Onkyo 875 cost me £600 when it was still the current model (and the 905 was £800 at the time). You get raped on costs over there. From what I remember when I was shopping around, Germany had the best deals in Europe. If you can import your equipment from there you would save a bomb. The 906 is NOT worth 2000euros, that is a rip off.

I really think you can have your cake and eat it, if you simply import.

 

[Yaka]

teedles why not check out the diy option? you could easily build a gainclone stereo amp for under 200 euros, sounds better than many branded amps. use seem some built ones on ebay for around £150 some times even less

asfor using ps3 with a steroe amp you need a dac. beresford dac is around £60 if you shop around. as for the cable box it prolly has phono oututs to connect to a stereo amp.

spend the saving one decent speaker

 

[Tom]

AV amps are renowned for sounding crap with standard stereo, compared to their hifi counterparts.

First things first Teeds, what room are you planning on listening in? If its a 9 foot box, I wouldn't spend more than a couple of hundred quid. If its a decent sized lounge, with lots of soft fittings, then you can go to town.

For comparison, I have a Roksan Xerxes, an old Arcam Delta 70.3 CD player, a Nad NAC preamp, 2 valve monobloc power amps, and a pair of Musical Fidelity monitors.

Oh and don't fall for the "expensive interconnects/speaker cable" nonsense, because its all bullshit. I'd suggest having a look at Linn page to see what's what at the top end (to get an idea of who sells what), and going from there. I strongly recommend looking at solid state devices with enough memory to store a few hundred CDs. Use any old cheap shite CD player to rip.

 

[TdC]

well, you forget I've had an AV amp for the past 10 years, so that's kinda the reference.

My audiominded mate has talked me out of a stereo hifi based on the fact that I use my PS/3 for all things audio/film. The current plan is to create a 3.1 system, perhaps with two ELAC 310 CE's and a matching centerspeaker, with the REL T3 to fill out the sound.

 

[Yaka]

Oh and don't fall for the "expensive interconnects/speaker cable" nonsense, because its all bullshit.

some good articles on this subject are in the freebie The Audio Critic issues

sad to say when i first got into dvds in the late 90s i got sucked in by it and have regretted wasting so much on cables. these days i just get by on cat5e speaker cables which i have tons of

 

[Tom]

It will sound shite, sorry. Stereo recordings should be replayed on stereo equipment, nothing more.

 

[TdC]

yes, I know this. I won't be playing a stereo recording on three speakers, it will play on two. the only thing I can come up with that will be detrimental to the sound is the fact that it will perhaps go through processors that won't do anything because the playback will select two speakers.


@Yaka, yeah man I made some speaker cable from cat5 that I took apart and then braided. Tbh I failed to hear any difference, but it worked and my cat5 is free hehe

 

[Ch3tan]

That's a point, I need to change the length of my cabling as I am moving my AV receiver. I can't be arsed to braid again though. Think I may just use the cable as it is.

 

[TdC]

böh, I say do nothing. you can now say "length isn't all it's cracked up to be" hur hur

 

[old.user4556]

It will sound shite, sorry. Stereo recordings should be replayed on stereo equipment, nothing more.

Whilst I agree with you to a point, there are options out there that may allow one to purchase an AV amp and still retain some amount of audio fedelity.

Option 1

DacMagic Digital to Analogue Converter

I've been eyeballing this for a while and I've read excellent accounts over on avforums and a most excellent review over on stereophile. It's a simple DAC-in-a-box (see what I did there?) that takes a digital in (say, from a CD player or PS3) and provides a pair of stereo analogue outs to go to a power amp (for example, on your AV amp). The DAC is of very high quality and rivals some muchos expensive CD players, but with the added benefit of being able to D to A your entire lossless music collection (assuming you bitches use lossless and not gaylorded MP3s) through media streaming such as a PS3. Part of the reason AV amps 'suck' for stereo is the poor DAC.

Something like this may allow teeds to retain a PS3 / AV amp setup but utilise the DAC to provide a much better stereo setup until he gets the cash together to invest in a serious stereo power amp down the line. That also answers:

"wtf do I do with my PS/3? stick it on the aux or something?" - use the digital out into the above DAC, take the stereo analogue out into he leet new stereo amp.

The only drawback is providing an output to the sub - this is my main sticking point when it comes to a stereo amp and one of the reasons that I still use my Onkyo AV Amp to drive my speakers - finding a stereo amp with a proper crossovered sub out is like trying to find a condom machine in a chappel. There are various non-hifi workarounds for it, but personally I'd not be happy with any of them. In that case, if your budget allows, the money you were going to pump into a subwoofer might be better spent on a pair of floor standers that have decent bass units. The other option for a stereo amp with a subwoofer out would be:

Outlaw Audio RR2150 Stereo Receiver Reviewed

Again, great reviews but still the requirement for DAC (see above).

Option 2 (expensive)

AV Amp that does audiophile stereo?

Hifi Gear ~ Arcam ~ Arcam FMJ AVR600 7.1 Home Cinema Receiver AVR-600

Again the evidence on avforums seems to suggest that it's a superb device for stereo audio and AV use, but you pay for it big time. Additionally, I'd imagine Teeds' other components won't allow the amp to stretch it's legs so might be overkill.

 

[Bodhi]

I'd go down the stereo route as well personally, but mainly as I did that 15 years ago and haven't looked back since. I bought :-

Marantz PM66 Ki-Signature Amp
Marantz CD63 KI-Signature CD Player
Mission 733i Speakers
Audioquest interconnects
Linn Bi-Wire Speaker cable (£8/m at the time )

Cost about 1300 quid all in, sticking to teh golden rule of spending 10% of the cost of the hardware on cabling. Frankly, it all still sounds epic. When I first purchased I was using the cables that came in the box and some bellwire, and whilst still sounding good, it didn't really go up a level til I'd spent the extra on cables.

P.S I initially bought an Arcam setup in case of the Marantz - oh dear. Rubbish woolly sound and the amp blew up after a month and a half. It promptly got returned for the Marantz kit.

It sounds great with both films and music, and I have a HTPC, PS3, CD player and various other things attached to it through the line ins, and it works a charm. It will only be replaced if it becomes uneconomical to repair.

 

[old.user4556]

Also teeds, if you're looking at that sort of price range for speakers, can I also recommend:

Stereophile: Linn Majik 109 loudspeaker

Designed and made in Skirtland, so I naturally root for Linn; I feel quite patriotic about Linn as a brand.

 

[TdC]

cheers for the info peeplets, really awesome of you to deliver this information.

now, seeing as my sweet idea of a stereo amp has been nixed by my sense of thrift, I can get a NAD T755 in the old titanium colour priced down to 699 euro notes (from 1499e, Chetan, so you get the idea of the massive anal rape here in Euroland :/)

Shall I get the NAD? even though it's a 5.1, unlike it's 7.1 bigger brother the T765, I'll only be using (initially 5.0, then 3.1 when I decide to get the other speakers).

 

[old.user4556]

I can't advise on the NAD or not, but what I will say is try to demo the speakers you want to get with the amp you've got or intend to buy.

The reason I say this is that I recently had a rant about What HiFi who l0rded it up big time about the B&W 685s to the point I felt I didn't need to demo them. I tried them with my AV receiver at Sevenoaks in Glasgow just incase and I cannot tell you how fucking ring piece they sounded. It wasn't until I demo'd another couple of pairs of speakers that I decided to shell out more cash. So glad I checked them out.

 

[TdC]

yeah mate I know what you mean. demo'd a set of Warfdale's a few months ago which were awesome pieces of work in all respects except that they sounded like Wij after a curry night

 

[old.user4556]

Is that Wij taking a watery shit after a curry night? or performing a sex act after a curry night? or both at the same time?

 

[TdC]

with the Wij you never really know

 

[TdC]

and a NAD T747 is now mine! best bang-buck...err...euro ratio I could find. now quickly back to the teedlecave for some nerdgasms!

 

[TdC]

and nerdgasms there are aplenty o0