Attention, stun easy moders invading Albion (nt)

[Samaroon EatsCheese]

shame all that dont come free maeloch

 

[Gamah]

Can you or can you not kill a caster within stun duration? If that gets purged what about the same for FZ duration? .

Also u know how many ra's i need to kill u when we meet when u just need to use purge? (ofc if i get the jump and u got purge down it's like u say, but i dont get the jump on stealthers in general).

Anyhow moc lifetap + 2 aoe CC + ML9 convoker + debuffs + ichor (jaja i know sorcs think it's crap but = one more aoe CC and get out of jail free card and I use it to kite on my VW so i'm sure sorcs can do to) + sorc rr5 melee immune RA >>>>>>> baseline stun. I'd swap anyday.

Mael, 50th ment.

Yes that me, but many minstrels can't I put a lot of effort in to my char to make sure I can kill casters in stun duration where as many minstrels can not do the same. Comparing every minstrel to a high RR one is a bit :S, where as any old chanter can kill in stun duration.

 

[charmangle]

Only partly right ?

Nothings changed about Baseline stun since the game was devoloped, the whines only started to come since ToA, whys that? Because 25 dex cap, 10% cast speed combined with stun and nuking is overpowerd.

So your theroeticly (sp!) your whining about castspeed being overpowerd while your a caster yourself and use the benefits of 25 dex cap and cast speed?

Hmm...that is only partly right...the main whines didnt come with TOA...they came with NF!

At towers/keeps or 1/2-on 1 qc-able stun is just too good. In openfield group vs group or zerg vs zerg its almost useless. (well compared to the other situations anyway)

Also combine that caster baseline stun with fields of instainterrupting shrooms at any tower/keep you have the reason why not all the mids and albs together stand the slightest chance of ever getting back their relics and therefor have given up...(basically if hibs arrive at any keep/tower there is one thing to do...hide till you get to roof or go to another part of the realm)

And about other classes in other realms...there is only one class that can match the baseline stun atm and thats warlocks. (and then its basically 50/50 with any baseline stun caster in hib).

So in conclusion to the Albs: Whine away here get mad/upset then come fight us Mids instead and lets leave the hibbies to play with themselves (or wait them out and bring them to an open field where we can zerg them silly

/Charmangle

 

[aegnor]

Can we stop comparing baseline stun to warlocks please.
Baseline stun duration is affected by magic resists, determination, its purgeable, bladeturnable, has immunity timer, its even castable (unlike insta stun on mincers and healers).
You have time to get healed if a caster stuns and then nukes you, if a warlock unloads all his chambers you just die instantly and that's it.

 

[charmangle]

hmm...not really!

Can we stop comparing baseline stun to warlocks please.
Baseline stun duration is affected by magic resists, determination, its purgeable, bladeturnable, has immunity timer, its even castable (unlike insta stun on mincers and healers).
You have time to get healed if a caster stuns and then nukes you, if a warlock unloads all his chambers you just die instantly and that's it.

Well no actually not!
The point stills stands...99% of all that get baseline stunned dies...this is not due to crappy healing its due to the fact that its impossible to get the heals out fast enough except with instants and those are not up for long when standing with a group inside a keep trying to deff hibs...

And the spells of the warlock are like all other spells suseptable to the almighty resists just like the baseline stun.

Its actually just about the same thing with baseline stun and warlocks. Only difference is warlock is out of the fight for 30 secs after 1 kill the hibcaster isnt...(I can promise that all mids AND albs feel the exact same thing about this)

And to have a purge against hibs its gotto be purge3 to be useful or its meaningless. And thats really not an option is it (or fair for that matter since its waaay to expencive !)

/Charmangle

 

[Lecturin]

aegnor you say baseline stun dont give you master of kill button you retard

 

[Adianna]

Also combine that caster baseline stun with fields of instainterrupting shrooms at any tower/keep you have the reason why not all the mids and albs together stand the slightest chance of ever getting back their relics and therefor have given up...(basically if hibs arrive at any keep/tower there is one thing to do...hide till you get to roof or go to another part of the realm)

I have never ever seen a shroom casting an instant spell on a Mid. :eek2:

 

[charmangle]

Was abit sarcastic!

I have never ever seen a shroom casting an instant spell on a Mid. :eek2:

Yea I did overstate it abit...ofc you are right the shrooms dont hit instant.
But the point was that baseline stun together with shrooms interrupt makes it just to good at keeps/towers.

/Charmangle

ps. Spells from shrooms target you instant and get off the spells it only takes 2-3 seconds to hit you...meaning that you get 10-20 hitspam after you have backed away from the shrooms and that is annoying though. ds.

 

[Adianna]

And shrooms only have 1000 range. It is not enhanced by ToA range so you should be pretty much capable of killing them without being interrupted by them... especially as they only have like 500 hp or so.

Btw. shrooms + baseline stun are TWO classes... I don't recall animists getting stun. So what exactly is the point? A healer cannot stun for his casters?

 

[charmangle]

You cant really mean you dont understand ?

And shrooms only have 1000 range. It is not enhanced by ToA range so you should be pretty much capable of killing them without being interrupted by them... especially as they only have like 500 hp or so.

Btw. shrooms + baseline stun are TWO classes... I don't recall animists getting stun. So what exactly is the point? A healer cannot stun for his casters?

I will just repeat what I wrote earlier but it seems it has to be reaptead over and over and over again...

When you are standing at a keep/tower there are always 10000000 of shrooms just below the battlement.

These shrooms are virtually impossible to kill since when you hit 1 will die in 1 of 2 ways:
Baseline stun nuke nuke
or
The other shrooms kill you.

Yes baseline stun are on the other casters but I never said that animists alone attacked ? You cant seriously mean that you didnt understand that ?

So again:
Baseline stun on casters + shrooms (in the realm) are just to good a combination! You cant seriously mean that you cant see that ?

/charmangle

ps.
I always feel it abit strange that mids can admit that something is overpowered in their realm (BDs, Warlocks, Healers atm) but hibs doesnt seem to have the same grasp of reality.

It would be fun to see hibs defend the relic keeps with shrooms just once...cant you just try it ? Maybe just maybe you find it abit more fair ?
ds.

 

[aegnor]

aegnor you say baseline stun dont give you master of kill button you retard

Yeah, and I can see you are a smart one. :<

 

[Adianna]

ps.
I always feel it abit strange that mids can admit that something is overpowered in their realm (BDs, Warlocks, Healers atm) but hibs doesnt seem to have the same grasp of reality.

Now that one made me laugh.

 

[charmangle]

Oki so lets test this thesis...

Yeah, and I can see you are a smart one. :<

Oki so lets test this well just unintellectual comment...

Give me some arguments as to why you have come to such a conclusion. Ofc you have to have thought this comment through long and hard havent you ? So give me the arguments and we will take this discussion as mature adults. For you are an mature adult arent you ?

Dont make stupid remarks without any intellectual thought behind it...argument your case, make your point otherwise you only belittle yourself and what ever point you might have.

/charmangle

 

[Megarevs]

ps.
I always feel it abit strange that mids can admit that something is overpowered in their realm (BDs, Warlocks, Healers atm) but hibs doesnt seem to have the same grasp of reality.
ds.

what makes healers op please tell me m8

 

[charmangle]

I would really like to hear why...

Now that one made me laugh.

Basically same answere here is required as to Aegnors illeterate comment...

I would really like to hear what thought work has gone into this comment. Dazzle me with your wits...for so far you have done nothing other than embarrace yourself and your fellow hibernians by not showing any kind of ability to form a coherent thought and put it down on this forum.

What is so funny about the comment that I have just admitted too some classes beeing overpower or atleast very uselful/powerful in midgard. Or do figure us to be mindreaders and able to actually guess as to what you find amusing that noone else finds anything remotly funny about ?

/charmangle

 

[Puppet]

The point stills stands...99% of all that get baseline stunned dies...this is not due to crappy healing its due to the fact that its impossible to get the heals out fast enough except with instants and those are not up for long when standing with a group inside a keep trying to deff hibs

I would suggest getting a decent cleric instead. With a normal RvR-spec a cleric will cast his biggest SPEC-heal about the same speed as his SMALLEST baseline-heal (per patch 1.73 iirc) which should heal on any decent cleric for 700+. 2 clerics in a typical FG is 1500~ heals on a caster every, well lets say every 1.5 second (that is a normal cast-speed on a cleric for that heal; any TOA'ed cleric will pump it out way faster).

The only way someone is gonna get killed is by multiple Hib-casters assisting on the target; if thats the case u will probably die; however this is where the argument comes: If multiple Hib-casters can assist on you then in the other case where Albs are attacking a cleric + caster(s) can assist too; giving u also BASELINE STUN.

 

[Lecturin]

i can say that warlocks are OP now mids have something that are close to basline stun i still think that is OP for a caster and aegnor i was just in a bad mood

 

[charmangle]

Well OP or Very powerful tool

what makes healers op please tell me m8

Well OP or very powerful tool its just a matter of opinion I basically mentioned healers there just so I wouldnt get alot of comments about healers having instaaemess/instaaestun/aestun/aemess etc. Healers are a very good and versitile char. In these forumes it has often been argumented that baseline stuns of hiberna is just a match of the ae stun of the healers. This is in my opinion not true for the above mentioned reasons.

What I meant with OP on healers is that they have a wide range of uses that the hibs/albs dont have on their seers. Wither this is OP or not can be a matter of discussion somewhere else...just shorten the post to: BDs and Warlocks if you like...

/Charmangle

 

[Puppet]

I will just repeat what I wrote earlier but it seems it has to be reaptead over and over and over again...

When you are standing at a keep/tower there are always 10000000 of shrooms just below the battlement.

There is a limit of 150 shrooms in the courtyard (vicinity-max) and a 300 shroom-limit in any zone. 1 animist can pump out 15 FnF + 1 controllable pet out. In a big scale keepfight there's perhaps 3~ animists doing their thing; limiting the ammount of shrooms to 48 if they all just do nothing except shrooming.

Yes baseline stun are on the other casters but I never said that animists alone attacked ? You cant seriously mean that you didnt understand that ?

Then do a chance-of-tactic and let 1 cleric be the stun-monkey for you. If hes too busy casting resists; being AFK in a FoP to spreadheal and DI not my fault :O

It would be fun to see hibs defend the relic keeps with shrooms just once...cant you just try it ? Maybe just maybe you find it abit more fair ?
ds.

You probably mean without shrooms. Is that like asking Albs to run out without spec-AF so I will hit cap on you regardless as archer? Or I know: Try to take a keep without theurgist-pets on the door and no scouts around :OoO

Tho lets not over-react; last relicraid from Albion on Ailinne where I was the Albs died about 1500 units infront of our keep; not due to shrooms but due to being so stupid to hang around there for 3+ minutes without getting some sort of siege going on the door/walls. Baseline stupidity needs a nerf I guess :/

 

[charmangle]

Well a very well commented note! Nice to see!

I would suggest getting a decent cleric instead. With a normal RvR-spec a cleric will cast his biggest SPEC-heal about the same speed as his SMALLEST baseline-heal (per patch 1.73 iirc) which should heal on any decent cleric for 700+. 2 clerics in a typical FG is 1500~ heals on a caster every, well lets say every 1.5 second (that is a normal cast-speed on a cleric for that heal; any TOA'ed cleric will pump it out way faster).

The only way someone is gonna get killed is by multiple Hib-casters assisting on the target; if thats the case u will probably die; however this is where the argument comes: If multiple Hib-casters can assist on you then in the other case where Albs are attacking a cleric + caster(s) can assist too; giving u also BASELINE STUN.

This is how a response is supposed to look like...Aegnor and Adianne read this post, take notes and learn from this you could use it.

Well even though I find this nicely formulated I do not agree with it!

Why...well the healer will have to have atleast 1-2 seconds reaction time before knowing that his caster has been baseline stunned. He will not have a chance of keeping up with the nukes after the intial delay (the caster will hit 3 times before first heal hits and that will be about 1700 damage (500+ per nuke with decent resists) your basic caster wount be able to take that much punishment and will die.

Ofc I can agree that there are lucky occations where you can resists one or 2 of the nukes and survive or the caster dont follow up correctly but thats luck not skill.

Basically giving stun to a class with that kind of castingspeed, qc and nuking capabilities are just to good when it comes to keeps towers.

/charmangle

 

[aegnor]

I will just repeat what I wrote earlier but it seems it has to be reaptead over and over and over again...

Fortunately i do not need to repeat myself over and over to make a point like i'm trying to preach something to a herd of sheep. Everyone is entitled to make up their own mind in my book.

These shrooms are virtually impossible to kill since when you hit 1 will die in 1 of 2 ways:
Baseline stun nuke nuke
or
The other shrooms kill you.

The problem is not the shrooms themselves but the bugged los in keeps, otherwise shrooms can be mezzed or killed with a few ae spells. If they are hidden around a corner and you get "ambushed" by the shrooms then it can be nasty.

I always feel it abit strange that mids can admit that something is overpowered in their realm (BDs, Warlocks, Healers atm) but hibs doesnt seem to have the same grasp of reality.

This is the same pointless long-bearded discussion.
Of course stun is overpowered in some situations, all realms have overpowered abilities, some are more overpowered than others, some have been around for years others have been nerfed in the subsequent patch for some reason. I never said it wasn't powerful, just that it can be countered, but you had to assume i did.
Happy now?

Give me some arguments as to why you have come to such a conclusion. Ofc you have to have thought this comment through long and hard havent you ? So give me the arguments and we will take this discussion as mature adults. For you are an mature adult arent you ?

Well, obviously mature adults have respect for different opinions and don't sprout random insults at the first person that disagrees with them, like you do for instance. That's usually a sign of someone who is childish and that needs to vent out some frustration.

 

[charmangle]

Hmm...getting away from the point of the message on purpose or ?

There is a limit of 150 shrooms in the courtyard (vicinity-max) and a 300 shroom-limit in any zone. 1 animist can pump out 15 FnF + 1 controllable pet out. In a big scale keepfight there's perhaps 3~ animists doing their thing; limiting the ammount of shrooms to 48 if they all just do nothing except shrooming.



Then do a chance-of-tactic and let 1 cleric be the stun-monkey for you. If hes too busy casting resists; being AFK in a FoP to spreadheal and DI not my fault :O



You probably mean without shrooms. Is that like asking Albs to run out without spec-AF so I will hit cap on you regardless as archer? Or I know: Try to take a keep without theurgist-pets on the door and no scouts around :OoO

Tho lets not over-react; last relicraid from Albion on Ailinne where I was the Albs died about 1500 units infront of our keep; not due to shrooms but due to being so stupid to hang around there for 3+ minutes without getting some sort of siege going on the door/walls. Baseline stupidity needs a nerf I guess :/

Well getting away from the point well and far here...

The point still stands: I can agree that Warlocks are OP and should be nerfed but then again its still only the same thing as the baseline stun on hib casters. Nothing you have said here have adressed that argument...

1. Yes it was an exaggeration but such a one that you really should have been able to figure out what I meant with the slightest effort.

2. Well why dont you do the same thing against warlocks ? Let a caster be a stun monkey for ya (please atleast try to stay with the points here. Warlocks is called OP I point to yes they are but so are the baselinestun) tactics 1 o 1 or ?

3. Well you figured this one out...even though apparently you felt a strange urge to point to the obvious ?

Are you telling me that there were no animists at the defence ? Or just that they had no impact what so ever ?

I really refuse to believe that you dont undertand the point here ? The question has been raised here several times and the answeres are always avasive or away from the point...but again can you honestly say that you dont think it would make any difference if albs and mids got an animist-like spec too ?

The shrooms make a world of difference weather you like to face that fact or not. As I said I dont mind facing any kind of hibgroup in open field roaming battle (we might win some and we might loose some). but with animists and casters at keeps the strenth of the hibs is hightened 10 fold.

Face it atm hibs are highly OP at tower/keep defence/attack.

/Charmangle


The

 

[Ilum]

I would suggest getting a decent cleric instead. With a normal RvR-spec a cleric will cast his biggest SPEC-heal about the same speed as his SMALLEST baseline-heal (per patch 1.73 iirc) which should heal on any decent cleric for 700+. 2 clerics in a typical FG is 1500~ heals on a caster every, well lets say every 1.5 second (that is a normal cast-speed on a cleric for that heal; any TOA'ed cleric will pump it out way faster).

The only way someone is gonna get killed is by multiple Hib-casters assisting on the target; if thats the case u will probably die; however this is where the argument comes: If multiple Hib-casters can assist on you then in the other case where Albs are attacking a cleric + caster(s) can assist too; giving u also BASELINE STUN.

i c m8, so 2 hib caster assisting with stun delivering pretty much unhealable dmg is the same as 1 alb caster nuking a cleric stunned target delivering healable dmg?

 

[Adianna]

i c m8, so 2 hib caster assisting with stun delivering pretty much unhealable dmg is the same as 1 alb caster nuking a cleric stunned target delivering healable dmg?

I got stunned by a minstrel last night and got nuked by 2 fire wizards and still survived. MIRACLE! :eek2:

 

[charmangle]

Well this is what I call an answere again!

Fortunately i do not need to repeat myself over and over to make a point like i'm trying to preach something to a herd of sheep. Everyone is entitled to make up their own mind in my book.

The problem is not the shrooms themselves but the bugged los in keeps, otherwise shrooms can be mezzed or killed with a few ae spells. If they are hidden around a corner and you get "ambushed" by the shrooms then it can be nasty.

This is the same pointless long-bearded discussion.
Of course stun is overpowered in some situations, all realms have overpowered abilities, some are more overpowered than others, some have been around for years others have been nerfed in the subsequent patch for some reason. I never said it wasn't powerful, just that it can be countered, but you had to assume i did.
Happy now?


Well, obviously mature adults have respect for different opinions and don't sprout random insults at the first person that disagrees with them, like you do for instance. That's usually a sign of someone who is childish and that needs to vent out some frustration.

Yes very!

Well you are wrong at one point!

I do not spread around random insults...you made an insulting and not to clever remark without taking the time to argue...then I respond in kind just abit more verbally. If you treat me with respec I treat you the same way, but if you act like a child I will treat you as a one.

This is more mature and argumentative...and I I am impressed. Well argued and quite to the point. And ofcourse you are right. The whine in the thread was about Warlocks beeing OP, my response was that in the same situations as the warlock is OP the baseline stun is OP they are in my opinion Over powered in some situations and I also argued that in some situations they arent. So basically the same opinion! Isnt it nicer when you can find that out through discussing ?

I do thank you for taking the time to putting down the arguments in your oppinion and its much appricated. I just wish more would take the time to do so (also that you had done it yourself the first time)

/charmangle

 

[aegnor]

I do not spread around random insults...you made an insulting and not to clever remark without taking the time to argue...then I respond in kind just abit more verbally. If you treat me with respec I treat you the same way, but if you act like a child I will treat you as a one.

Please do clearly point out where i was insulting.
Maybe a result of your own erroneous interpretation?
Or perhaps you are too focused on your preaching ways and see every slight disagreement as an "insulting and not too clever remark".
After all, when you press so much then you have to be right! :<

 

[charmangle]

Well it might be a missinterpretation but...

Yeah, and I can see you are a smart one. :<

Well if it was a missinterpretation then I do appologize. But I do find this comment to be both offending and demening or wasnt it ment to be ?

But hmm...I must say you must have missunderstood me. Im not preaching, im trying to make a point and hear about the views on this from hibs/albs point of view. But I do get abit upset when I put an effort into a post trying to make a point in a discussion and get 1 line comments that to me seem only meant to insult. :/


I only treat people the way I feel I have been treated. If I get argumentative non abusive answere I respond in kind and most often kindly. But again if it was meant in any other way I do appololgize for the pointers I made...

/Charmangle

 

[aegnor]

Well if it was a missinterpretation then I do appologize. But I do find this comment to be both offending and demening or wasnt it ment to be ?

If you had read that one line carefully you would see it was not directed at you but at someone else, directly in the same line of speech too...

 

[Killerbee]

Charmangle, you are a mid, so a bit biased towards warlock (when I played mid I was biased to that realm even if I denied it, hard to resist tbh ). As an alb I rather would have face a hib caster than a warlock, cause against a hib caster I have chance (at least to flee), against a warlock, I have no chance.

 

[charmangle]

You are ack so right and I do sincerly appologize!

If you had read that one line carefully you would see it was not directed at you but at someone else, directly in the same line of speech too...

I do appologize again for the missunderstanding. You actually were basically just attacked by me and quite innocently I might add....

Bah...I will read your notes more carefully in the future!


/Charmangle