As I see it...

[Alithiel]

The chance of winning (not taking in such things as which classes attack etc, but it won't matter, the difference is to huge for this to make an effect):

8vs1: -800%
8vs2: -400%
8vs3: -266%
10vs8: -125%
13vs8: -162,5%

Meaning, 8vs1 is worse than 13vs8. By pure mathematics. Simply: The solo-argument is more valid than the group-argument.

Both are doing wrong, soloers are just doing less wrong and groups more wrong.

Sorry, but you're wrong. From a group perspective, a single soloer adding (although it's usually more than 1!) can in many instances be far more damaging than a full group of enemies adding.

A high RR group adding is usually death, but a low - mid RR group can be dealt with if you're playing well and have the upper hand in your current fight.

When a full group adds, you'll usually have warning of their approach and at least have an opportunity to get in some form of CC (providing that your mezzer is still alive). You have no such protection against a solo/duo stealther popping on a Cleric or Sorc at a critical moment and totally changing the course of the fight.

And stealthers complaining about overwhelming numbers ruining their fights are, quite frankly, hypocrits. Last night we passed a 1 vs 1 fight between an Alb and a Mid at MMG. We left them to get on with it, and within moments of us having gone by 3-4 other Mid stealthers popped on him. If you can't stick to your own 'leave 1 vs 1 fights alone' creed, then why should anyone else?

 

[Vodkafairy]

wow, lox needs to make another thread on this boring subject

I agree with fluid, leaving stealthers alive is pretty risky... I just hope people know I don't add on fg fights and they will leave me alone in return...

I always pm other people to let me die I they (are about to) add, and I let other people die regardless of their whining. I don't respect a hib more than a mid or alb really, whether people get my respect or not depends on their actions and not their realm.

I add on wankers, I don't add on people I don't know or people I do know and are nice.

And sometimes I feel like zerging, why? because i can

ohh and agree with alithiel also... a stealther can ruin the fight no matter what you say lox, in the end its completely the same. Either a fg ganking a stealther, or a stealther ganking a key player in a team resulting in that team to lose.

 

[Puppet]

Majority of 'normal' fg players hate stealthers because too often they suddenly saw their cleric/druid/healer drop because of (a) stealther(s) jumping the poor defenseless class.

With that imagine in your mind you do not leave stealthers alone when you got the chance to retaliate.

 

[Loxleyhood]

I've been zerged during solo fights three times today without having a chance to add on a fullgroup fight. It's groupers who are the worse offenders.

 

[Fluid]

I've been zerged during solo fights three times today without having a chance to add on a fullgroup fight. It's groupers who are the worse offenders.

keep dreaming

 

[katt!]

one soloer dying = fun for one person ruined.

one soloer fucking up fg vs fg = 16 peoples fun ruined.

so to get even we have to kill you 16 times for every fg fight you ruin.

(summary: keep crying addboi)

 

[Tay]

Seems one of the most popular rants on the forums at the moment is the current animosity between the stealthers and the groupers. Now, the stealther view point is that groups ruin our RvR by zerging us. The group view point is that stealthers ruin fg v fg by adding.
It is my argument that you simply cannot compare one stealther adding on a full group to a full group zerging one stealther. For everyone who believes that 8 > 1 this is undeniable.
Of course, when more than one stealther is adding that becomes a problem.
However, there are stealthers out there who do nothing but solo and duo, and you know who they are, and their fights are constantly getting ruined by hypocritical and, honestly, down right cruel full groups. Hell, full groups are well versed in tactics for zerging soloers. Bards! What do you do if you see a solo stealther! That's right! You know it! Slap that insta amnesia on him.
I for one would stop adding on full groups who stopped zerging me, and I'm sure many of the other solo stealthers would too. But until you stop zerging the healers will continue to die.

Stop whining and do something to put it right. The stealthers can't do anything, if we chose not to add on a fight, you wont even know we were there and will zerg us next time anyway. If you want to reduce adds then you can stop zerging. If you chose not to you deserve what you get and have no right to whine.

As I see it, when people start paying my subs they can dictate how I should play the game, until then people yelling Dont add, dont leech or whatever will pretty much get me adding and leeching on every single fight.

My stealther will continue to get rolled over, I will choose if I want to add, I will choose if I'm going to leech, I will choose if I let somebody go.

It will not be some jumped up prat that think this is how the game should be played or otherwise.

 

[Talivar]

This isnt a boring subject its something that all need to accept,adding/zerging isnt so bad its the hyprcrits that can zerg a solo person and say "yea so what cry more noob" and then 1min leter when 2fg kill them its like end of the world and the 2fg are BIGGEST lamers ever.

 

[Jaapi]

I've been zerged during solo fights three times today without having a chance to add on a fullgroup fight. It's groupers who are the worse offenders.

Offenders of what? Most stealthers wanna fight 1 vs 1 fights against other stealthers, but seems to me some don't understand the meaning of the word assassin.
Assassin is maybe meant to go solo and kill, but not other assassins only. They are meant to kill key persons like for example healers.
It's not about stealther vs. stealther, it's still after all this time and whine a realm vs. realm.

Stealthers add, fine. Groups kill soloers, fine. Just bloody stop crying for your mommy when one of these things happen.

 

[nol]

I cannot understand how you really expect us to believe you camp mile gates for 1v1 action, they are camped because it's an obvious meeting place where stealthers can achieve max leeching for minimum effort. If you don't want to be ganked by fg's, take your fights somewhere else, you have a stealther channel in irc to arrange it.

It's not just being kept to Portal Keeps and Mile Gates anymore either, stealthers have little gank teams stacked up along the routes people run in fg's, like the ridge, crauch entrance valley, stones hill crauch cross roads. All of these places recently I have seen a minimum of 3 stealthers pop when we were fighting fg vs fg.

 

[Ziva]

Don't you people get bored after whine 53356363633663 about zerg/no zerg/solo/add??? It's pretty pointless if you ask me.

Just let people play the game they want in numbers they want and if a certain area get's too busy go to another area and if your group gets outnumbered bring more friends.

 

[Divinia]

The chance of winning (not taking in such things as which classes attack etc, but it won't matter, the difference is to huge for this to make an effect):

8vs1: -800%
8vs2: -400%
8vs3: -266%
10vs8: -125%
13vs8: -162,5%

Meaning, 8vs1 is worse than 13vs8. By pure mathematics. Simply: The solo-argument is more valid than the group-argument.

Both are doing wrong, soloers are just doing less wrong and groups more wrong.

Want another cup of stupidness Sir?

 

[Sabu]

The stealthers can't do anything

reroll another char, stupid post imo

 

[Asty]

one soloer dying = fun for one person ruined.

one soloer fucking up fg vs fg = 16 peoples fun ruined.

so to get even we have to kill you 16 times for every fg fight you ruin.

(summary: keep crying addboi)

lol, dying is bit worse than getting help in a fight.. i dont really get this attitude that stealther's adding is absolutely horrible. It changes so little that i really cant be arsed to give a shit. (and no i dont say this because i have a sb, haven't played him in months)

 

[[NO]Subedai]

alith is right.
And as for those statistics, its crap, sorry but it is- it is far more complex than that.

Playing a Cleric i can tell u that if a stealther archer/assasin adds on to me im pretty much put out of the fight until it gets messed. As i play in aoe grp i ahve the liberty of running to pbaoe, but when its a ranger/hunter it is so fucking annoying.
I cant actaully think of any stealthers who dont add. they just froth at the though of getting 1k rpts at killing support.
I only hate stealthers because of the fact that they add and have such a huge reputation for adding.
they just cant be trusted

 

[Jaapi]

It is my argument that you simply cannot compare one stealther adding on a full group to a full group zerging one stealther. For everyone who believes that 8 > 1 this is undeniable.

That's what you say now, this is what you said before:

I decide whether it's the Druids or the Healers who start dying in Hib vs. Mid fights.

So a healer dead doesn't affect the result?

 

[Loxleyhood]

Those statements aren't contradictory.

 

[Jaapi]

Care to elaborate?

 

[Loxleyhood]

I'll break it down for you. The first statement says that a fullgroup adding on a soloer is more affective than a soloer adding on a fullgroup. The second one says that I choose whether to shoot either Hibs or Mids when that is applicable (thx very much for taking the quote out of it's context btw).

As you can no doubt comprehend, those two statements are not contradictory.

 

[Jaapi]

I'll break it down for you. The first statement says that a fullgroup adding on a soloer is more affective than a soloer adding on a fullgroup. The second one says that I choose whether to shoot either Hibs or Mids when that is applicable...

The second one says you decide who dies first, not who you shoot at. Big difference.
That means the other group is suddenly one man short and you don't find that affective to the outcome?

 

[Raven]

your F5 button must be wearing out

 

[Jaond]

I have yet to be spared by a fg....

 

[bult]

I have yet to be spared by a fg....

And i have yet to see a soloer not adding. We spare soloers OFTEN for 2 reasons 1) it is abit hypocritical(sp?) to whine about zergs then kill a soloers moments after and 2) its more trouble then its worth, cant get jumped in the back while you are doing it etc.

For example the SM Shafu is someone we have spared countless of times then one time at ~mmg he comes and starts to nuke me? when we spared him 20 seconds earlier, was very dissapointed about this since i always tought of him to be a honourable player.

Sparing soloers dont work they still add on you it has happened looooads of times after we have spared someone that they come and ruin our fights just seconds after.

 

[[NO]Subedai]

And i have yet to see a soloer not adding. We spare soloers OFTEN for 2 reasons 1) it is abit hypocritical(sp?) to whine about zergs then kill a soloers moments after and 2) its more trouble then its worth, cant get jumped in the back while you are doing it etc.

For example the SM Shafu is someone we have spared countless of times then one time at ~mmg he comes and starts to nuke me? when we spared him 20 seconds earlier, was very dissapointed about this since i always tought of him to be a honourable player.

Sparing soloers dont work they still add on you it has happened looooads of times after we have spared someone that they come and ruin our fights just seconds after.

it is true, unfortunately

 

[Loxleyhood]

The second one says you decide who dies first, not who you shoot at. Big difference.
That means the other group is suddenly one man short and you don't find that affective to the outcome?

I carry arrows not A-bombs. Just because I shoot at someone doesn't mean they're going to die. One stealther cannot change the outcome of a fullgroup fight, and any adder knows to add on the losing side.

 

[katt!]

I carry arrows not A-bombs. Just because I shoot at someone doesn't mean they're going to die. One stealther cannot change the outcome of a fullgroup fight, and any adder knows to add on the losing side.

i wish i could attack alb stealthers. well, i wish i could attack most albs ;X

 

[Alithiel]

One stealther cannot change the outcome of a fullgroup fight

That is such a load of rubbish.

Often a fight is finely balanced, neither side having gained the upper hand. Then all of a sudden a stealther pops on a cleric/healer/druid, and the loss of heals tips the balance.

any adder knows to add on the losing side.

If their own realm is involved, theres only one side they can add on...

 

[Loxleyhood]

That is such a load of rubbish.

Often a fight is finely balanced, neither side having gained the upper hand. Then all of a sudden a stealther pops on a cleric/healer/druid, and the loss of heals tips the balance.

Only very rarely will a soloer cause that. However, a full group will always ruin a solo fight.

If their own realm is involved, theres only one side they can add on...

Stealthers will remain stealthed if their realm is losing.

 

[Loxleyhood]

wow, lox needs to make another thread on this boring subject

Link to a thread I've made before on this subject. No? K, please shut up. You make the internet cry.

 

[*Ialkarn]

I think we could directly use the word "leacher" instead to say Assasins or Archers,would be more easy to type.