Armsman help!

[gohan]

correct me if im wrong, but the over time dmg is equal, no matter what weapon it is, due to speed + dps are in equilibriam(SP?)

also if u miss get blocked parried evaded or fumble or hit BT ect ect then its like 2X that of a normal weapon (they'd have to miss twice for thier DoT to be affected as much)

 

[psyco]

i correct u then
if u hit for examples mid support class wich u should they are in chain that thrust has +5% dmg to, if u where slash u have -10% dmg, so that 15% dmg differance, now add that in ur calculations and u see alot more dmg.

well considering that most have capped mellee resists.... and theres no way to debuff them, so why bother saying that you do 31% less dmg... or 26%, its not really the point i was trying to make...

 

[Kagato]

Firstly, yes you can debuff resists with the correct weapon choice but lets keep things simple for the moment.

5% does not sound like alot now, but it is when you can be doing hits of 700 + damage.

Add to that the armour resistance to slash, if you hitting midgard support classes and its a 15% differential then due to the 10% resistance, so your damage is already 15% less then it could be.

Styles make no differance to the arguement here as you will all be using same polearm styles regardless of your damage type choice.

There is one and only one reason to choose slash, and thats because the malice axe can be used as an artifact. Where as there are no real good artifact choices for thrust or crush polearms.

 

[psyco]

Firstly, yes you can debuff resists with the correct weapon choice but lets keep things simple for the moment.

? ive never noticed being melee resist debuffed...

 

[Darzil]

? ive never noticed being melee resist debuffed...

Well, it's the one ability that several of the champion weapons have. I think the ML10 bow does so too.

Darzil

 

[psyco]

oh c'mon thats 30secs every 12mins, and also... theres a constant 5% resists melee increase on most of them>.<

 

[Sorin]

Damage done by slash/crush/thrust poles variates so much all the time even on the same target, so 5%base resists does NOT matter..

"we are talking without crit hits"

besides, no-one does 700+ damage all the time with a standard pole. not even you kagato.
maybe on a caster with not melee resists and no shields up.. otherwise its very unlikely.. unless ofc we are talking legendary poles in wich case the type of the weapon doesn't matter, but the elemental damage of the weapon.

so we are not talking more than 250-550 damage, thats the kinda damage my arms does on tanks.. he uses a 5.6 spd crush pole and got 438 str buffed.. I know that if i respeced to slash and got my hands on a MP 6.0 slash pole that i would do the same damage if not more, slower, but harder.. you got haste pots/charges to make up for that


if your aim is to use legendary poles, it doesn't matter if you go slash, crush or thrust.

and once again. why would slash be an option if it is no use?

 

[Rub]

if your aim is to use legendary poles, it doesn't matter if you go slash, crush or thrust.

it does, crush has an anytime 6s stun, slash hasnt

 

[Sorin]

it does, crush has an anytime 6s stun, slash hasnt

/slap

we are not talking about styles dude

 

[Kagato]

oh c'mon thats 30secs every 12mins, and also... theres a constant 5% resists melee increase on most of them>.<

You can choose to have a 10 / 10 % resist debuff on champion pole as a proc.

Damage done by slash/crush/thrust poles variates so much all the time even on the same target, so 5%base resists does NOT matter..

"we are talking without crit hits"

besides, no-one does 700+ damage all the time with a standard pole. not even you kagato.
maybe on a caster with not melee resists and no shields up.. otherwise its very unlikely.. unless ofc we are talking legendary poles in wich case the type of the weapon doesn't matter, but the elemental damage of the weapon.

so we are not talking more than 250-550 damage, thats the kinda damage my arms does on tanks.. he uses a 5.6 spd crush pole and got 438 str buffed.. I know that if i respeced to slash and got my hands on a MP 6.0 slash pole that i would do the same damage if not more, slower, but harder.. you got haste pots/charges to make up for that


if your aim is to use legendary poles, it doesn't matter if you go slash, crush or thrust.

and once again. why would slash be an option if it is no use?

No you wouldn't do the same amount of damage at all, that 15% differential will out weigh whatever base melee damage you gained from the .3 speed differance, and then be made worse over time by the fact your swinging slower.
And the haste/ speed arguement is invalid as you can get those same bonuses with a 5.7 speed pole, however a 5.7 speed pole you can actually reach capped swing speed with ( and I have) where as with a 6.0 speed pole it would be impossible even with paladin celerity.

Im sorry but simply going for a slow as hell pole, which is still only .3 seconds slower then a 5.7 thrust pole will not make up for how poor Slash damage is from an Albions perspective and even if you did go with slash you would be mad not to use slash malice pole which is only 5.6 speed and would lower your damage still further.

As for your last arguement: "why would slash be an option if it is no use ?"

For the same reason we've had cross bows for 4 years before snapshot

For the same reason we've got 1 hand thrust styles

For the same reason we've got a ml10 pole with a useless Mob taunt proc.

Its an option if your stupid enough to choose it because mythic cover as many varables as possible from roleplaying to leetist and because when they made this game 5 years ago they didn't have a fucking clue what they were doing, which is obvious enough already.

Its an option, that doesn't mean its a good option.

 

[Sorin]

lets put it to a test.. when i get tired of crafting, i will make a slash thid arms, since i already got a crush arms for thid..
i will equip them both with the slowest and biggest pole i can make, then i'l go do some damage, and make an overall damage for both weapons, compare them and post it here...


i will use Crippling Blow wich has a 0.45 growth rate.

since almost everyone now a days got thier chars in thid templated it should be a pretty good test place.

 

[Oboy]

lets put it to a test.. when i get tired of crafting, i will make a slash thid arms, since i already got a crush arms for thid..
i will equip them both with the slowest and biggest pole i can make, then i'l go do some damage, and make an overall damage for both weapons, compare them and post it here...


i will use Crippling Blow wich has a 0.45 growth rate.

since almost everyone now a days got thier chars in thid templated it should be a pretty good test place.

sorri to break it for u but thid is not a good test place, first characters is lvl 24 wich is very differant to lvl 50 chars both to spec and dmg output, second, no, not all chars there are templated, still lots of ppl in /level armor and with low resists.

 

[Rub]

lets put it to a test.. when i get tired of crafting, i will make a slash thid arms, since i already got a crush arms for thid..
i will equip them both with the slowest and biggest pole i can make, then i'l go do some damage, and make an overall damage for both weapons, compare them and post it here...


i will use Crippling Blow wich has a 0.45 growth rate.

since almost everyone now a days got thier chars in thid templated it should be a pretty good test place.

u should actually also make a test with the dmg over time, not only the best dmg
and that still wont prove that much, if u would fight against 5% - 10% resistance for slash most of the time and against neutral armor with crush
and as Oboy said theres still a difference between thid and 50rvr

 

[Sorin]

u should actually also make a test with the dmg over time, not only the best dmg
and u should fight against neutral armor for the dmg types, against the same resists etc
and as Oboy said theres still a difference between thid and 50rvr

well i guess someone has to make a lvl 50 slash pole arms then.


gimme two respec stones and i will do it

 

[Fahdlan]

ow:< now I want one too! atleast I didn't make a ugly classic half ogre mikke!

 

[Kagato]

lol you call that a test? Every alt i've put through thidranki has either been in random drops or aurulite armour with no resist above 5%

Its simple just look at the armour tables and you can see for yourself, as you said already most people have near perfect templates which means a blanket 26% + racial bonus to all 3 melee resists so the only differance will be the 0-15% range of armour type modifiers.

Now look at how many classes are resistant to you as slash damage and not only is it the greatest number its also the most important targets, i.e the majority of midgard support and nearly all of their tanks, not to mention fotm thanes and valkyries, then look at hibernia and its same again with you only being 'good' against hero's and champions who will take longest to kill already.

Any bonus the extra 0.3 seconds on the slash pole gives you is already over whelmed long long ago in terms of benefit, that fraction extra damage (which is slower in coming each hit) is always suffering the resistance penalty.

Buts its obvious we are never going to see eye to eye on this, so the thread starter will just have to make his own mind up given the arguements presented here and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Sorin]

lets agree on disagreing then

 

[Briton_Knight]

well i guess someone has to make a lvl 50 slash pole arms then.

<--is a lvl50 slash polearmsman.

ill post what sorta dmg i do on average when i get round to it for u if it helps at all

 

[Sorin]

<--is a lvl50 slash polearmsman.

ill post what sorta dmg i do on average when i get round to it for u if it helps at all

great!, we just need your strength/weapskill
and then we need you to get your hands on a MP 6.0spd pole

use Defender's Rage since it got the highest growth rate 1.20

 

[Briton_Knight]

mp 6.0spd pole's arent cheap and i aint anywhere near rich. so unless some1 wants to volunteer to make me one cheap ur gonna have to wait a while for me to get more money hehehe

 

[Dest]

Maybe a tad off-topic...

Could someone post an overview of the different armortables for each class if possible? Seen one before but can't seem to dig it up

 

[Alhanna]

Not sure anyone should question Kagato who has played his Armsman for over 4 years. Doesn't experience count?

 

[psyco]

my opinion is its only a small fraction... game mechanics is far more important

ps. dest, i cant... nowhere to upload atm... otherwize i would...

 

[Rub]

Maybe a tad off-topic...

Could someone post an overview of the different armortables for each class if possible? Seen one before but can't seem to dig it up

http://camelot.allakhazam.com/weapon_effect.html

Slash vs. Hibernia
Vulnerable (4)
- Champion
- Druid
- Hero
- Warden

Neutral (6)
- Animist
- Bainshee
- Eldritch
- Enchanter
- Mentalist
- Valewalker

Resistant (5)
- Bard
- Blademaster
- Ranger
- Nightshade
- Vampiir

Crush vs. Midgard
Neutral (14)
- All

 

[BlackrazoR]

Wasn't going to join in this moronic argument but the guys who are disagreeing with Kagato are actually idiots, it pains me to have to read their replies. Everything Kagato has posted is basic game-mechanics/logic - its indisupteable and yet you still disagree?

 

[Borgio Finstermoor]

Wasn't going to join in this moronic argument but the guys who are disagreeing with Kagato are actually idiots, it pains me to have to read their replies. Everything Kagato has posted is basic game-mechanics/logic - its indisupteable and yet you still disagree?

Hence why I stopped posting as soon as Kag turned up, what he says is as good as Armsman Law.

 

[Briton_Knight]

altho i am a slash polearmsman i dnt disagree with kag, but it would be interesting to see the actualy difference made by the vulnerabilities/resists of other realms as to your choice of polearm spec.

Not sure anyone should question Kagato who has played his Armsman for over 4 years. Doesn't experience count?

there are other people whove played armsman for as long m8, even if not as successfully as kagato has been.

 

[BlackrazoR]

altho i am a slash polearmsman i dnt disagree with kag, but it would be interesting to see the actualy difference made by the vulnerabilities/resists of other realms as to your choice of polearm spec.



there are other people whove played armsman for as long m8, even if not as successfully as kagato has been.

I've been playing Armsman that long - not continuously because I prefer to stand half a chance in RvR but I'd still value Kagato's view over any other when it comes to Armsmen.

 

[Oboy]

altho i am a slash polearmsman i dnt disagree with kag, but it would be interesting to see the actualy difference made by the vulnerabilities/resists of other realms as to your choice of polearm spec.

what is it to know, if u hit a dwarf in chain for 400 with ur slasher u had hit him for 15% more with a thruster. Simple game mechanics. All talk about variance and crap dosnt matter as u still has it whatever spec/weapon u have.

 

[Briton_Knight]

i didnt say i cared what the difference was it'd just be good to see it in actual numbers from the game rather than speculation of what it could be.