Armsman help!

[mikke]

I am making a half ogre armsman. and i wonder what is the best spec to go. i want to be pure melee, no s\s or hybrid.

then im left with two choises, 2h and pole. but i got no clue with what is best. and i also want to know what artifacts i can use as polearms, and what the stats are on them!

Cheers

 

[Borgio Finstermoor]

Kag will be along in a mo to more than likely tell you all you need to know but my current spec is:

50 Polearm
39 Crush
42 Parry

Good for soloing and group play, although thrust tends to do better with soloing due to resistances.

As for Artifacts, Malice and Battler can be activated as poles ( BUT ONLY AS SLASH,) but they are piss poor for albion. Theres the other spear artifact that I cant remember off the top of my head but Kag uses it.

The Champion poles are good and easy to get though.

Auto train up to 50 and you will have some more points to throw around (I auto trained so if I wanted, I could spec thrust and have more parry)

Thats all I can think of at the mo.

 

[mikke]

ok, i see every armsman go polearm. Is there anyone out there that goes 2h? because then you can get malice with the nice proc. and what about 2h damage compared to pole damage? is it much diffrence?

 

[cadwaladr]

only my oppinion, but the most damaging styles I got as a 2hander are the possitionals, onslaught (side) n the rear one. The only times I usualy get em off is in pve with another tank that can get agro or (pve/pvp) if I slam n move. Hybrid is potant but fiddly. Pure pole is a much more damaging form, and the front positional is a lot easier to get off from what Iv seen. I cant realy compare all three forms as I havnt done a pure pole yet. But I presume its very damaging and offensive. As for arties I know Kagato bemoans the lack of good crush poles. afaik none can be activated as a pole in crush, just the two mentioned earlier and Spear of kings in slash or thrust. (dammit mythic give us a pole bruiser/malice) but yeh the champ wep is an ok alternative, and hopefuly the noise regarding new legendary weps will pan out.

 

[Borgio Finstermoor]

I was 2 handed for a while and as cadwaladr says, the best style in 2hand are side and rear positional.

I find that Polearm is now what armsmen spec to do good damage. Defenders Rage (the front style) hits like a bloody truck, follows up with a snare then go back to spaming DR again. I was getting hits on my (then) RR3 for around 650 on stealthers

Also the Rear postional for polearm hits hard too, you also have two moves chaining off of it. One is a stun, the other is a bleed. Both nicely useful.

 

[scorge]

Kag will be along in a mo to more than likely tell you all you need to know but my current spec is:

50 Polearm
39 Crush
42 Parry

Good for soloing and group play, although thrust tends to do better with soloing due to resistances.

Legendaries are good, also try and add the basalt or brimstone (not sure which one) polearm to you inventory can be usefull as it has a duel proc heal/DD

besides that i find i can do some decent damage even though my armsman has no RA's, ML's, CL's or artis or even a template. Have even beaten a few fully templated people in 1 v1 duels, was close though was only the heal reactive procs that saved me

 

[Borgio Finstermoor]

Exactly, its fun out there at the moment as an Armsman. Im fully templated (can always improve) and have only just dinged RR4 (have been anr Arms for 4-5 years now lol) so im by no way UBER (ML2 btw)

Just get yourself out there man and see what works best for you. Respecs are cheap enough now.

 

[mikke]

ok thanks for all replies guys!

but i find it hard to make a polearmsman template, so if anyone have a decent one i would be happy if they would post it

 

[Mufasa]

Firstly i've never played or had a lvl 50 arms so i'm just working on what i would expect/experience from 2h pala (though never rvr'd to much with that either) But wouldn't a 2h crush arms work well? could use 1h for stun styles then get in positionals (yes i know everyone has purge but use the short duration stun first for them to blow purge then 10secs later use the better one).Prolly be better for grouping to wouldn't it with rear snare/stun? have to say arms look like alot of fun atm (maybe a little fotm ) think if i was to make one though would go thrust/pole.

Theres the other spear artifact that I cant remember off the top of my head but Kag uses it.

Spear of Kings?

 

[gohan]

Kag will be along in a mo to more than likely tell you all you need to know but my current spec is:

50 Polearm
39 Crush
42 Parry

Good for soloing and group play, although thrust tends to do better with soloing due to resistances.

As for Artifacts, Malice and Battler can be activated as poles ( BUT ONLY AS SLASH,) but they are piss poor for albion. Theres the other spear artifact that I cant remember off the top of my head but Kag uses it.

The Champion poles are good and easy to get though.

Auto train up to 50 and you will have some more points to throw around (I auto trained so if I wanted, I could spec thrust and have more parry)

Thats all I can think of at the mo.

imo thrust is better in RvR than crush an get champ pole as its 1 of the slowest

also u can auto train trust to 13 an get an extra 1-2 in parry but deffinatly go :
50 pole
51 composite thrust (40 +11 39+12 32+19 ect ect)
rest in parry (42-43 ish at low RR get about 48-49 at rr9-10)

 

[Kagato]

Just a quick post as im at work, i'll give you a more detailed explanation later when I get home.

Basically for pure damage you want to stick with Polearm spec only.

Its best all round for both positionals, reactionaries, grouping and solo.

2H is an ok line but only good for positionals and grouping and now with the recent changes to polearm, its not even the best option for that anymore, Polearm has the best positionals now as well with the highest growth rate and best dps of heavy tanks in the game (1.2 growth rate to be precise). This is on a front positional style so pretty much an anytime.

Add to this anytime snare, 2 chain 9 second stun style option (like 2h also has) and really in all regards polearm out performs 2H.

The only advantage to 2h is the fact that you have better artifact options with a crush 2h malice being possible. where as polearm can only have a slash option polearm malice which frankly sucks.

So if you want flashy artifact 2h is ok, but polearm will still always out perform like for like.

Any more questions and i'll explain later when im home or pm me in game or on here.

 

[Lethul]

50 polearm, enough crush to get 51 composite, rest parry sounds dangerous no?

 

[Kagato]

Crap, 2 hours over time tonight, going to be stuck at work awhile.

Ok to elaborate further.

50 polearm is essential, nothing else will do, then you want enough thrust or crush to reach 50(or 51) with items and rr bonus, thats up to you to decide how much you template and for what RR you are planning for.

All the rest should go into parry and/or crossbow if you plan to use snapshot (for soloers I recomend it).


You will notice I did not say slash, thats simply because I think its an aweful damage type choice from an albions perspective against enemy armour types, specially for someone planning to group.

Thrust is the best for group based damage types, and crush for group and/or solo based armsmen.

Personally I use legendary poles, but thats my own personal preferance, and I can make them myself so its cheaper but if I wasn't going to use those then i'd go for a alacritous ROG crush pole for soloing or Thrust based champion pole.

No artifact poles are worth considering, if they made golden spear a pole or malice a crush pole then i'd use them in a shot, but there not so you have to look at alternatives.

 

[Sorin]

You will notice I did not say slash, thats simply because I think its an aweful damage type choice from an albions perspective against enemy armour types, specially for someone planning to group.

Erhm m8..
A slash halberd also happens to be the only weapon with 6.0 spd "For a Reason!" you of all people should know that.


And since my "slash" merc can out damage pretty much every tank
...well.. my point... slash is just as good as anything else.
"maybe not at the lower lvls"

 

[cadwaladr]

Yo Kagato. new guy in the guild keeps telling me that the resists/vuln of armour vs dmg types is gona be caped at +/- 5%. Now I cant find anything to suport this but he so far aint been the kinda guy that BSs. so this true, a pipe dream, or just wishfull thinking on his part?

 

[Rub]

I am making a half ogre armsman. and i wonder what is the best spec to go. i want to be pure melee, no s\s or hybrid.

then im left with two choises, 2h and pole. but i got no clue with what is best. and i also want to know what artifacts i can use as polearms, and what the stats are on them!

Cheers

first of all sry if things has been posted already, i didnt read the rest of the post

best spec -> 50pole 39(lower this the higher your rr is)crush 7 shield rest parry, imo

as crush polearms -> get the champ weap or legendary weap (altho i doubt if its going to give u that much advantage with the new armor tables etc) or if u want energy poles, but im still for the champ weap u could go slash to get malice ofc but u lose your crush stun (and dmg table advantage, unless u go legendary ofc).

pole or 2h? 2h anytime with the dr(defender's rage, 1.20 growth rate) changes, u could argue before when grouping/soloing but now it would be a bit weird to go 2h tbh

u asked for the stats of the pole:

Magical Bonuses:
 - ALL melee weapon skills: 4 pts
 - Strength: 12 pts
 - Quickness: 12 pts
 Level Requirement
 - 50 Level
 Bonus to style damage: 4%
 -  Requirement: vs. all
 Bonus to melee damage: 4%
 -  Requirement: vs. all
Bonus to Strength attribute bonus cap: 8

 Magical Ability:
 Function: endurance heal
 Target regains lost endurance.
 Value: 75
 Target: Self
 Casting time: instant
 - This spell is cast when the item is used.
 - Requirement: Defeat the Circle of Five

 Damage Modifiers:
 - 16.5 Base DPS (16.2 Clamped DPS)
 - 5.8 Weapon Speed
 - 100% Quality
 - 100% Condition
 - Damage Type: Crush

 Can use item every: 12:00 min

then with
Or:
Melee resist debuff proc - 10% proc for 15 seconds to the damage type of the weapon (Slash, Crush, Thrust) 

Or:
5% slash/thrust/crush - persistent buff

 

[mikke]

Yo Kagato. new guy in the guild keeps telling me that the resists/vuln of armour vs dmg types is gona be caped at +/- 5%. Now I cant find anything to suport this but he so far aint been the kinda guy that BSs. so this true, a pipe dream, or just wishfull thinking on his part?

afaik this only counts with legendary wpns. it was in this patch

 

[Kagato]

Erhm m8..
A slash halberd also happens to be the only weapon with 6.0 spd "For a Reason!" you of all people should know that.


And since my "slash" merc can out damage pretty much every tank
...well.. my point... slash is just as good as anything else.
"maybe not at the lower lvls"

And? theres a 6.0 speed pole....everybody say wow ! and now tell me what this has to do with anything?

Slash is simply shit due to the enemy armour resist tables, the only thing you will be any good against is certain hibernia tanks which are the last targets you will be going for, the majority of support you will be weak against or neutral at best.
So you know where you can stick that precious 6.0 speed slash pole, because thats all its good for, it's better of as /salvage

And yes I have tried slash.

As for your merc, wether he can out damage anything else or not has sod all to do with you being slash, crush or anything else, as you should know. You'd be far more effective in a group situration if you were crush, same goes for solo.

Yo Kagato. new guy in the guild keeps telling me that the resists/vuln of armour vs dmg types is gona be caped at +/- 5%. Now I cant find anything to suport this but he so far aint been the kinda guy that BSs. so this true, a pipe dream, or just wishfull thinking on his part?

It was changed so no armour type would be more then 5% vulnerable to any type of damage, the 'resistant' factor stays the same so an armour can still be 10% resistant to a damage just not as vulnerable to a damage.

 

[Oboy]

Yo Kagato. new guy in the guild keeps telling me that the resists/vuln of armour vs dmg types is gona be caped at +/- 5%. Now I cant find anything to suport this but he so far aint been the kinda guy that BSs. so this true, a pipe dream, or just wishfull thinking on his part?

afaik its only vulnerable that cap at +5% dmg
resistance armor is still -10% dmg
and this goes for everything not just lgw

 

[Rub]

ok, i see every armsman go polearm. Is there anyone out there that goes 2h? because then you can get malice with the nice proc. and what about 2h damage compared to pole damage? is it much diffrence?

im still 2H, once i get my temp tho im gonna respec, but tbh pole is just better in everything for every situation

 

[Sollac]

Erhm m8..
A slash halberd also happens to be the only weapon with 6.0 spd "For a Reason!" you of all people should know that.


And since my "slash" merc can out damage pretty much every tank
...well.. my point... slash is just as good as anything else.
"maybe not at the lower lvls"

mercs reavers and palies fall to my crush pole in 2 or 3 hits

 

[Sollac]

my arms has the following spec

50 POLE
39 CRUSH
41 PARRY
7 SHIELD

FULLY TEMPLATED WITH 1 ARTIFACT (made it so much easier)
i use champion crush pole

had many a chat with kagato online in game, helped me with ra's and even as a pole user BG works a treat, although i prefer warlord abilities to keep u alive longer.

we of the merry men had a small spur of the moment tourney, buthcered paladins, freaked the reavers out, caused a snite cleric to throw all her toys out of the pram, and only got beat by a wizard as he ran away from me (muy)

lots of prople in the guild where very surprised and it was either a lucky streak or arms are now tuff.

tourney invovled no outside help, buffs if u had them, abilities and mls where allowed.

:england:

 

[Sorin]

And? theres a 6.0 speed pole....everybody say wow ! and now tell me what this has to do with anything?

Slash is simply shit due to the enemy armour resist tables, the only thing you will be any good against is certain hibernia tanks which are the last targets you will be going for, the majority of support you will be weak against or neutral at best.
So you know where you can stick that precious 6.0 speed slash pole, because thats all its good for, it's better of as /salvage

you gotta start thinking logic here!

Slash is just as good as anything else.. thats the way it is.

Why else make it an option? so you can fail?.. i doubt it.


and my point being, 6.0 spd, slash or not, means more damage than faster weapons. and 5%base slash resists doesn't really matter as the damage of the weapon makes up for it.

lol at you kagato. i think you're good enough but sometimes you just say stupid things.

 

[Kagato]

you gotta start thinking logic here!

Slash is just as good as anything else.. thats the way it is.

Why else make it an option? so you can fail?.. i doubt it.


and my point being, 6.0 spd, slash or not, means more damage than faster weapons. and 5%base slash resists doesn't really matter as the damage of the weapon makes up for it.

lol at you kagato. i think you're good enough but sometimes you just say stupid things.

I say stupid things? this coming from the guy saying slash is as good as anything else when 1 single look at all 3 realms Damage Resistance tables clearly shows its not?

Think logic? take your own advice and look at the main targets a tank should be attacking in a group situration and look at what armour they wear.

Yes you could manage with slash, but you will be hitting for less then you would if you were crush or thrust.

Therefore those 2 clearly have a significant advantage.

And an extra .3 speed which will also make your swing time slower therefore decreasing your dps over a given time wont make up for it. If you could make that speed up to 1.5 cap fair enough, but you can't. With a 5.7 alacritous pole though you can.

 

[Sorin]

I say stupid things? this coming from the guy saying slash is as good as anything else when 1 single look at all 3 realms Damage Resistance tables clearly shows its not?

Think logic? take your own advice and look at the main targets a tank should be attacking in a group situration and look at what armour they wear.

Yes you could manage with slash, but you will be hitting for less then you would if you were crush or thrust.

Therefore those 2 clearly have a significant advantage.

And an extra .3 speed which will also make your swing time slower therefore decreasing your dps over a given time wont make up for it. If you could make that speed up to 1.5 cap fair enough, but you can't. With a 5.7 alacritous pole though you can.

i'm happy we agree

 

[psyco]

correct me if im wrong, but the over time dmg is equal, no matter what weapon it is, due to speed + dps are in equilibriam(SP?)

and a about styles... like sorin said, theres pros + cons to each, thus overall giving them equal value...

so, back to the arument... i feel this is more about the armour resistance's, sure there is a 5% differance between each, however if your doing around 300dmg a hit, hypothedically, 5% of 300 is 15, so you would need to hit them 20 times before your accully have to make up some dmg, right? and is it not impossible to have 5000hp? so does it REALLY matter...

lets do the same thing with a lower dmg output per hit... say 100... 5% of 100 is 5, once again you would need to hit 20 before you loose any ground this equals a grand total for 2000, this is a relatively easy target to hit for a tank, however, if your fighting a tank in a rvr then your not really doing your job as a tank, ie interupter
unless your in a 1v1 situation, but then i still feel this is a small fraction of the game
and lets not forget, if your only doing 100 a hit then your probbabbly gonna loose anyway...

correct me if im wrong... but, does it really matter?

 

[Sorin]

correct me if im wrong, but the over time dmg is equal, no matter what weapon it is, due to speed + dps are in equilibriam(SP?)

and a about styles... like sorin said, theres pros + cons to each, thus overall giving them equal value...

so, back to the arument... i feel this is more about the armour resistance's, sure there is a 5% differance between each, however if your doing around 300dmg a hit, hypothedically, 5% of 300 is 15, so you would need to hit them 20 times before your accully have to make up some dmg, right? and is it not impossible to have 5000hp? so does it REALLY matter...

lets do the same thing with a lower dmg output per hit... say 100... 5% of 100 is 5, once again you would need to hit 20 before you loose any ground this equals a grand total for 2000, this is a relatively easy target to hit for a tank, however, if your fighting a tank in a rvr then your not really doing your job as a tank, ie interupter
unless your in a 1v1 situation, but then i still feel this is a small fraction of the game
and lets not forget, if your only doing 100 a hit then your probbabbly gonna loose anyway...

correct me if im wrong... but, does it really matter?

:worthy:

 

[Darzil]

correct me if im wrong, but the over time dmg is equal, no matter what weapon it is, due to speed + dps are in equilibriam(SP?)

You're wrong, but not very wrong. There is a slight damage bonus based on speed to the slower weapons. Being slower, however, they do hit pbt more often, where it's used, which can count against them.

Darzil

 

[Darzil]

lots of prople in the guild where very surprised and it was either a lucky streak or arms are now tuff.

Sounds like Armsmen are tough now. Certainly my pally has always struggled against polearmsmen, though most other meleer's get stuck in a long duel. A friends RR2 armsman has been enjoying running into pbaoe and walloping the caster, and is usually able to kill them even if they use mastery of concentration, even solo without healing.

Darzil

 

[Oboy]

correct me if im wrong, but the over time dmg is equal, no matter what weapon it is, due to speed + dps are in equilibriam(SP?)

and a about styles... like sorin said, theres pros + cons to each, thus overall giving them equal value...

so, back to the arument... i feel this is more about the armour resistance's, sure there is a 5% differance between each, however if your doing around 300dmg a hit, hypothedically, 5% of 300 is 15, so you would need to hit them 20 times before your accully have to make up some dmg, right? and is it not impossible to have 5000hp? so does it REALLY matter...

lets do the same thing with a lower dmg output per hit... say 100... 5% of 100 is 5, once again you would need to hit 20 before you loose any ground this equals a grand total for 2000, this is a relatively easy target to hit for a tank, however, if your fighting a tank in a rvr then your not really doing your job as a tank, ie interupter
unless your in a 1v1 situation, but then i still feel this is a small fraction of the game
and lets not forget, if your only doing 100 a hit then your probbabbly gonna loose anyway...

correct me if im wrong... but, does it really matter?

i correct u then
if u hit for examples mid support class wich u should they are in chain that thrust has +5% dmg to, if u where slash u have -10% dmg, so that 15% dmg differance, now add that in ur calculations and u see alot more dmg.

I think a pole arms should go 2 differant dmg types to have more utility, only works at high rr but is really good
at rr10
50 pole
30 thrust
30 slash/crush
rest in parry shield whatever (can get slam if full autotrained)