Armsman are really so bad?

Darksadness

Fledgling Freddie
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Everywhere i search info about armsman i read a lot of criticism about armsman... They say they are gimped etc etc... but why is that? Should the new Half ogre boost a bit this class? Gimme some answers plzzz ,-\. Im about to start a new arsman Half ogre in TOA... :eek6:
 

-Freezingwiz-

Fledgling Freddie
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Darksadness said:
Everywhere i search info about armsman i read a lot of criticism about armsman... They say they are gimped etc etc... but why is that? Should the new Half ogre boost a bit this class? Gimme some answers plzzz ,-\. Im about to start a new arsman Half ogre in TOA... :eek6:

merc's just out dmg them that is why
 

Kagato

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https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=5659

Some stuff about it in there.

Armsman are as good as they always have been, that is the problem, all other classes have been tweaked and given love and Armsman have not had a direct improvement virtually since release, so gradually other classes have over taken them and become more favourable.

Unless your high RR you will struggle to compete, sad but true, but if you plan to stick with the class then you will be ok, just do not expect to be uber unless Mythic finally give us some love.
 

Darksadness

Fledgling Freddie
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Damnnn

I get depressed just to think about this... i really loved to start an arms, i even had bought allready epic armor, almost all equip... Damn mythic, why the hell dont they improve the REAL tank of albion. Well i will just start one and see what it takes... :wij:
Hope Mythic check about this in the near future.... I downloaded some videos from armsman in Toa (with i guess Spear of kings?) and it deals a nice dmg on rvr (allways 300 up per hit), i guess this is a nice dmg tbh.
Someone posted upthere that merc outdamage amrsman... in the long fights maybe, but in RvR i think the more dmg in a blow the better, because you dont have time to make long fights!

Just correct me if im wrong!


Viriatus -> lvl 50 Paladin 2L8 Excalibur
 

NetNifty

Fledgling Freddie
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arms might hit for 300+ every 6 seconds but mercs hit for that in less time so do more dmg over time. Merc outdmg arms and dont have as much issues with BT or PBT, and palas more defencive. Also double speccing screws armsmen over tbh.
 

Kagato

Fledgling Freddie
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A 16.5 dps weapon is a 16.5 dps weapon, artifact or not its the character and the weapon speed thats going to make the differance to the damage, the rest is just fluff to make it sexy.

As a two-hander/polearmer you'd be expecting to hit for more then just 300 a hit, styled you should be looking between 300-600 depending on enemy armour type.

But as someone stated above, that kind of damage is at a long delay, mercs will hit for less but more frequently between those swings, and break through pbt easier.

Hitting hard with front load damage or doing damage over time both have advantages but alot of rvr groups these days would rather have mercs with prevent flight, DT and charge rather then armsman which is just damage and nothing else fancy. (Though soldiers barricade is an under rated RA in my opinion).

Personally I think though a polearmer and mercenary assisting on each other is a great team offering the hard hits with an any time snare/back positional stun chain and pf all together, but im sure the more fotm orientated will argue that 2 mercs would still be better.
 

Darksadness

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Thanks m8s

Thanks a lot m8s for your posts ,-) I have almost one week to think about start a offensive char, before Toa comes out. :D
 

Bracken

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Kagato said:
Armsman are as good as they always have been, that is the problem, all other classes have been tweaked and given love and Armsman have not had a direct improvement virtually since release, so gradually other classes have over taken them and become more favourable.

This is true sadly, but played well they can still do a job.

Darksadness said:
Well i will just start one and see what it takes...

That's the spirit! ;)
 

Vindicator

One of Freddy's beloved
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Armsman are really so bad?

No there not.

But There not the most optimal and damaging tank in Albion. So many ppl get hung up on this, when to many that is not important. They Just want a fun decent character.

I would be the first to admit that there is alot of things that need fixing for armsmen but It doesnt make them gimped or useless. There very useful Tanks and can handle them self very well. Basically unless you role the most optimal character your considered a gimp, whether thats a reaver or a Friar you can forget about joining the so called 'Uber' grps to which you would never get invited anyway because there basically all set now. So you can just keep playing with your friends and having fun as you used to with different grps and specs.


As for pointers/ tips etc.

If you spec to 39 in base dmg and get +11 from items as opposed to 50 in base dmg there is a 2% dmg loss. To minium dmg and not maxium dmg I may add. So in quick summary, you gain very little for the 100's < is it more?> of spec points you dump into base dmg instead of something else.

To what you want to spend points on is your choice, I went for 36 base dmg because I have some Realm rank behind me to soften the blow and give me some extra points :D.




As for some negatives.

Frontloading used to be great, but in the age of shield tanks you will find your blocked more often than not. with a decent Shield tank guarding that is, then factor in bt and pbt etc your chance to hit is goin down but with some /assist and/or good play you will do fine.

DW will half the shield tanks chance to block, hence why there so nice. plus also as you know they do more damage over time and in real rvr against a decent fg a proper fight can go on along time so this damage over time becomes a huge factor really.


Play your arms with toa and see how 'you' feel about it and try take some info from all this talk / bad talk about armsmen.
 

Drav

Loyal Freddie
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Such a damn shame the way things have gone with armsman, and Im sorry to say it but Im really sick and tired of all this merc loving sickness which seems to be spreading all over the realm.

Arms have had nothin but nerfage ever since the beginning of DAoC, and its about time Mythic sit up and make arms worthwhile...... Its hard enough getting this char to 50 anyway, we're not exactly group friendly, and the "Oh you do the most dmg" argument is completely thrown out of the window when most groups these days have casters that can do just as much dmg if not more than an arms.

Then all the folk scream "You have DET!!!!" well not for long by the looks of things, if Frontiers takes determination out of the picture armsmen will pretty much never get groups accept with loyal friends.

Look at the team lead reports, cant see any improvements coming our way, and anyone re-rolling an arms because of the upcoming expansion you have my serious pity, all those hours of downtime with even less group possibilities coming your way? Sorry Im patient but Im not gonna grind all that way back to 50 with a Half Ogre arms, and then get nerfed again for my trouble.

Mythic give this class something worth their while, and give it now, theres enough people rumored to be leaving the game because of ToA anyway, if ya dont wanna see the cash go flying away in little winged plate covered bags then sort arms out already!!!

Oh well, ok I admit, Im annoyed, after the polearm screw up the patch did to my favorite combo, and then the looming Un-Albish Stinking Scum of the Half Ogres, (pack the air freshner anyone who groups with em), I've pretty much reached my limit...

Give us morph.... give us anything just something to make us at least worthy competitors to the Paladins and Mercenarys out there.

If not..... then oh well Middle Earth Online is incoming, a game, if like they say they follow the true story of LotR's respects its hero's in plate ;)
 

Drav

Loyal Freddie
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Xanthian said:
FYI Half Ogre Pole Armsmen are the hardest hitting char in the game.
Ofc with only base Qui, no haste and 5.9spd Pole.

I've seen some screenys from US of them hitting over 1000 (non crit) on lvl 50 targets.

Yeah but what about the rest of us poor saps who have already levelled our armsmen up to 50? We automatically have no choice but to roll a Half Ogre Arms to be worthwhile??

Screw that, Ive already spent enough time leveling up my normal arms than to bother doing it all again with a stinking ogre, armsmen need something that will get them groups, both xpwise and RvRwise, pure damage alone isnt enough anymore. Or if Mythic are never gonna give us something to make us group friendly, then they should at least get rid of an armsmans group dependency, give us a decent health regen, and end chant and then let us be soloers...... either way is fine by me.

I just find it stupid that instead of improving armsmen as a class, theyve brought in a new race to pretty much nerf any non-defensive arms around, and that straight after screwing with every polearmers favorite combo - crippling blow to disabler.

It may sound like whine, but really its damn harsh truth.
 

bult

Loyal Freddie
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The thing is, armsmen will never get what they need to make them "ungimped" = better then some other class that can have thier spot instead. They wont give armsmen dualwield and i highly doubt they will change how blocking/guarding works, this is the main reason why armsmen are bad as offensive tanks. The other 2 realms heavy tanks (hero, warrior) are not as "gimped" because they have other uses except damage (guard) while in albion guarding is done by paladins since you need one of them in the group no matter what you do for endregen. The only real use an armsman have atm that they do better then some other alb class is guardbot for _caster_ groups but those aint exactly the most commonly used setups in Albion atm.

Having armsmen in the group WORKS but its far from the best choice.
 

Khefru

One of Freddy's beloved
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If you feel that armsam is so gimped, compared to Hero, delete and move to Hib :fluffle:

And moose is not that good tbh. 50% heal every 30 mins, but hero wears armour weak to 80% of tanks. I'd say Moose has saved me.....oooh......about.....eerm.....once over the last 2 years.
 

Lejemorder

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Drav said:
Yeah but what about the rest of us poor saps who have already levelled our armsmen up to 50? We automatically have no choice but to roll a Half Ogre Arms to be worthwhile??
try look at the pics, as far as i can c is he a highlander doing 1,2k dmg o_O
and that with defenders rage (i dunno if it shall be against u or he just shall do a style) and as i know does defenders revenge even more dmg, (i know follow up to a rear style), so if u dont get hit just try get behind target??

and for me 2h>dw in outlook any time :D
 

Kagato

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Lejemorder said:
try look at the pics, as far as i can c is he a highlander doing 1,2k dmg o_O
and that with defenders rage (i dunno if it shall be against u or he just shall do a style) and as i know does defenders revenge even more dmg, (i know follow up to a rear style), so if u dont get hit just try get behind target??

and for me 2h>dw in outlook any time :D

Defenders Rage is the most hardest hitting polearm style, infact my damage cap with Rage is 86 points higher then Defenders Revenge, whos damage has been reduced by around 30 points on cap since the styles got fucked over.

Defenders Rage however needs the enemy to hit you with a style to work, making it arguebly the most difficult and situration style in the game to land.

Firstly it will only work on an enemy attacking you, secondly that enemy HAS to be someone able to use combat styles, so thats all support classes out of the equation for a start almost, and then they have to land a style on you which is something you don't wish to happen in the first place, so really the style deserves to be damn good for all that.

Defenders Revenge now follows on from Phalanx, making it second in chain from a rear positional style, and the damage is reduced now. I usually find by the time I land it though its the killing blow regardless.

As you can see in the pictures though the person he hit does not have much resistances at all so its a target with crappy resistance no doubt vulnerable to the damage type, and on a 0 bonus quickness Armsman your bound to get good hits, your just going to have to wait 6 seconds every time for it.
 

Darksadness

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test

Last nigh i started a merc and a armsman with /level comand... just to test both. I gone to keltoy to kill some mobs and with merc killed one mob in 3 deads.... and allways looking to my hps going red line... damn merc takes a lot of dmg, and the dmg its not sooooo nice like ppl say! :eek7: After that started an arms with pole and killed mobs real easy and allways with half hps left... :eek6:
Maybe my play style its more adequate to armsman then. Real enjoying to play pole armsman and that will be my choice to start Toa new HO... Hope groups dont ignore me much ;-\ (sorry my bad english)
 

Remem

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Khefru said:
If you feel that armsam is so gimped, compared to Hero, delete and move to Hib :fluffle:

And moose is not that good tbh. 50% heal every 30 mins, but hero wears armour weak to 80% of tanks. I'd say Moose has saved me.....oooh......about.....eerm.....once over the last 2 years.


Aye and armsman and hero got exactly the same roll in opted grp :rolleyes: s
 

bult

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Darksadness said:
Last nigh i started a merc and a armsman with /level comand... just to test both. I gone to keltoy to kill some mobs and with merc killed one mob in 3 deads.... and allways looking to my hps going red line... damn merc takes a lot of dmg, and the dmg its not sooooo nice like ppl say! :eek7: After that started an arms with pole and killed mobs real easy and allways with half hps left... :eek6:
Maybe my play style its more adequate to armsman then. Real enjoying to play pole armsman and that will be my choice to start Toa new HO... Hope groups dont ignore me much ;-\ (sorry my bad english)


PvE and RvR is totally different lvl 20 and lvl 50 is totally different, your test shows nothing ;>
 

Duivel

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Darksadness said:
Everywhere i search info about armsman i read a lot of criticism about armsman... They say they are gimped etc etc... but why is that? Should the new Half ogre boost a bit this class? Gimme some answers plzzz ,-\. Im about to start a new arsman Half ogre in TOA... :eek6:

they r not fotm so they r marked gimped like all other non fotms
 

Mabs

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warriors get free 2h.. armsmen have to double spec for it
heroes get single line spear or 2h spec ... armsmen have to double spec for it
heroes get moose... arms get nothing, warriors get, erm, slightly more
damage ?
armsmen get plate... slightly useful but in no-way compensates for that ^

sword and board armsmen are inferior to paladins

armsmen have NEVER had ANY loving...

so yeah, armsmen are sh1te

heroes > warriors > armsmen imho
 

gunner440

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Mabs said:
heroes > warriors > armsmen imho


more like warrior > hero+ armsman

hero and armsman are kinda the same level compared to warrior
 

Mabs

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warriors have more utility and can 2h free, but dont get pole/spear wotsits
if all 3 types use both 1h and 2h, warriors get spec advantage over hybriding heroes/armsmen yeah

hero/arms/warrior with ip you have to kill twice
hero with moose you have to kill 3 times
 

Drav

Loyal Freddie
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No matter, guess its grind and grind and grind to rr10 and then enjoy killing off Half Ogre Arms in duels with your nice passive RA's :)

Team Lead Reports are getting very disturbing tho, isnt about time we got like..... something in a patch? Rather than stuff always being taken away?

I mean I could understand it if Armsmen were completely over powered and could own everything in site then your asking for some nerfage, but generally at least on Excal, you see very few armsmen around usually, ever since the merc has come into their new seemingly "main tank of albion" roll.

Hmmm maybe we will actually get something soon.... if not.... with ToA and spear of the Kings.... looks like us Pole users are gonna get nerfed again,can you imagine it lol work your a$$ off to get a cool wep that does cool dmg, xp it all the way up and then ya get nerfed.

I dunno, us armsmen look like the next dying breed of char...but who cares right? Lets just wtfpwn as many ppl as we can before they nerf us into healer without the healsdom.
 

tris-

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i never found my armsman gimped, with a bardiche (i think it was) 99% over 50 parry from items, i hit for 400-700 dmg on most swings and if i got the stun in just say good bye.
 

Drav

Loyal Freddie
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tris- said:
i never found my armsman gimped, with a bardiche (i think it was) 99% over 50 parry from items, i hit for 400-700 dmg on most swings and if i got the stun in just say good bye.

I dont think thats really the point tho m8, my arms hits fairly nice as well, the point is simply this, why introduce the Half Ogre Race to Albion???

I mean imo the race is completely out of character with the realm and we should be killing these troll wannabe's rather than grouping with em.

Another thing is they have nerfed the Highlander as the Str Tank of Albion, thus all people who started there highlander arms thinkin "Oh well at least I'll be the hardest hitter" have been given a straight forward kick in the b@lls.

If Mythic are gonna do stuff like this we should at least be given a race respec or something.

I just wish they'd stop acting like morons and realise its better to improve the class, than implement a better race.

If they'd have done this to the Int using classes or the Piety using classes there wouldve been a massive uproar and Mythic would be doing something about it to make it less of a nerf to already established lvl 50 chars.... but because its armsman nobody gives a f*ck right???

I mean who these days has the patience to make an armsman?? Seems the few of us that do are gonna get nerfed all the way to hell and back.
 

Pandemic

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Darksadness said:
Everywhere i search info about armsman i read a lot of criticism about armsman... They say they are gimped etc etc... but why is that? Should the new Half ogre boost a bit this class? Gimme some answers plzzz ,-\. Im about to start a new arsman Half ogre in TOA... :eek6:

yes they are tin canned junk next patch if i can be arsed to get it i can 3 shot them in 6 seconds
 

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