Arms in hand to hand combat action...

[Osri]

Any room for one at group rvr at 1.81?

 

[Kagato]

The 1.81 changes are not actually that great for making Armsmen any more group friendly. A couple of nice things but nothing that will make you more wanted then a merc or pally.

 

[Bubble]

Yeah Pbaoe Purge sucks

 

[Righthandof]

id rather swap 1 merc for 1 armsman after 1.81.. aoe purge, very good resists, boosted det5+stoicism+capped resists = no need for charge.. and warlord line is a nice extra also.
(deffinately wouldnt pick out the pally for an arms tho)

 

[Arethir]

I'd trade a merc for the arms any day, slam and 2h in assist train is evil. Pala im not to sure, more depending on the player really. But if i first was going to remove the pala from group i would rather replace it with friar for resists and heals imo. However, i'd rather have Osri than some random friar at trial, knowing he would play it decent and dedicated.

 

[Turran]

Merc has banelord which is pretty nice for interupting the oppositions casting

 

[Arethir]

Merc has banelord which is pretty nice for interupting the oppositions casting

Ye but you only need one if it's decent enough!

 

[Bubble]

I guess this would be a pretyy funky setup to try if all are good players-

Merc
Armsman
Friar
Cabbie
Theurgist
Sorcerer
Cleric
Cleric

 

[Argyle_Avendale]

Ye but you only need one if it's decent enough!

Yeah if you fight random grps, vs gg's you need more than 1 bl imo.

And fighting gg's >> random grps.

 

[Arethir]

Yeah if you fight random grps, vs gg's you need more than 1 bl imo.

And fighting gg's >> random grps.

Right! That must be why guilds like PE and Maelstrom etc only run with 1 BL in grp!

And Bubble, that setup would be ace tbh If you have the dedicated and opted people ofc I'd also consider removing the BG totally for reaver, merc or third caster though! And having 2 x Warlord (cleric and arms) in the group could be very nice aswell.

 

[Osri]

Farming so Raterik rdy at 1.81

Will see how he performs then...

 

[scarloc]

I guess this would be a pretyy funky setup to try if all are good players-

Merc
Armsman
Friar
Cabbie
Theurgist
Sorcerer
Cleric
Cleric

Nice setup, one thats been discussed a lot

 

[Righthandof]

Nice setup, one thats been discussed a lot

merc+armsman is weak imo. if you go for tank group, get 3 mercs or 2*merc + armsman, otherwise it won't work. if you're going for caster group, 1 merc is enough. we tried hybrid setup with Punishment, and it didnt work too good.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

merc+armsman is weak imo. if you go for tank group, get 3 mercs or 2*merc + armsman, otherwise it won't work. if you're going for caster group, 1 merc is enough. we tried hybrid setup with Punishment, and it didnt work too good.

Why would anyone on earth want to gimp the group with 3 Mercs please?

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Let me check for grouping in comparison with Merc at 1.81:

- 2-3 shoting casters with 2H Malice, in my opinion the damage is very good, at RR5 I ran Det4, AugQuickness3, MoPain3 with 401 strength it was nice, all this wank Merc >> Arms dmg wise is utter bullshit, go take a haste from a Theurg and an alacritous weapon and you will make every Merc jealous, my Arms has 101str/101con, 80 quick, 9/9/6 ToA without main weapon so it's pretty easy to build in and sick, you swing a 5.6+ speed weapon faster than a Merc his weapons,
- slam, 2H utility, crush artifact utility, also good vs Hibs, if you want to be an ass go Pole and perma snare someone with anytime style,
- massive hitpoints, good passive magic resists and shouts to increase that,
- CC deflection, semi-group purge (Purge2/Det4/Stoicism so does the job) make it up for charge I think,
- good new RR5 ability.

ML choice would depend on group setup. Throw weapon with 2H is quite funny to insta-kill casters that just just got freshly rezzed, BG works like a charm and will be even better in 1.81 with new RR5 and so on and Warlord ML10 is nice as well.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Farming so Raterik rdy at 1.81

Will see how he performs then...

If you need a good template, PM me .

 

[Osri]

If you need a good template, PM me .

O´right...count this as pm

Been working by myself with it. Still not finnished, got mincer & bb to farm scrolls for cash though.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

O´right...count this as pm

Been working by myself with it. Still not finnished, got mincer & bb to farm scrolls for cash though.

Might as well post it here then. When I did this template I focused on making it 26str/26con overcap without the main weapon with the intention of using a alacritous weapon. GoA deleted my with the Prydwen fuckup so I use Malice as 2H for now and changed the SC a bit, works good.

Not hard to work SoM in if you really want it also. Being Warlord now with Warguard, Battler/Malice /use2 works solo too for me, Eirene's arrogance being fixed soon, so enough of defensive stuff to play with.

LOKI Build Report
Default Configuration:
Build Utility: 858.0
Useable Utility: 843.0
TOA Utility: 234.0

Statistics
STR:107/101 CON:103/101 DEX:75/75
QUI:81/80 INT:0/75 PIE:0/75
CHA:0/75 EMP:0/75
Hits:220/200
Power:0/25
AF:0/50

Resistances
Body: 26
Cold: 25
Heat: 25
Energy: 15
Matter: 25+5
Spirit: 16
Crush: 26
Slash: 27+3
Thrust: 27+2

Skills
Crush: 11
Slash: 11
Thrust: 11
Polearm: 11
Two Handed: 11
Shield: 8
Parry: 8
Staff: 11

Bonuses
Style Damage: 6
Melee Damage: 9
Melee Combat Speed: 9

Two-Handed Configuration:
Build Utility: 753.3
Useable Utility: 739.7
TOA Utility: 274.0

Statistics
STR:106/101 CON:102/101 DEX:25/75
QUI:81/80 INT:0/75 PIE:0/75
CHA:0/75 EMP:0/75
Hits:260/240
Power:0/25
AF:0/50

Resistances
Body: 26
Cold: 25
Heat: 25
Energy: 15
Matter: 25+5
Spirit: 16
Crush: 26
Slash: 27+3
Thrust: 27+2

Skills
Crush: 11
Slash: 11
Thrust: 11
Polearm: 11
Two Handed: 11
Staff: 11

Bonuses
Style Damage: 11
Melee Damage: 9
Melee Combat Speed: 9
Fatigue: 5

Chest (Eirene's Hauberk):
Imbue: 20.0
15 Strength
5 Strength Cap Increase
6% Slash
6% Thrust
4 Style Damage
4 Melee Damage
Utility: 34.0
TOA Utility: 50.0

Arms:
Imbue: 37.0/32 (Quality: 100)
22 Quickness
28 Constitution
19 Strength
5% Thrust
Utility: 56.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Head:
Imbue: 37.0/32 (Quality: 100)
22 Quickness
25 Dexterity
19 Strength
7% Slash
Utility: 58.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Legs (arcanium Shadow-bound Greaves):
Imbue: 31.0
3 ALL melee weapon skills
8% Crush
7% Cold
18 Constitution
2 Melee Combat Speed
7 Constitution Cap Increase
Utility: 57.0
TOA Utility: 24.0

Hands (Maddening Scalars):
Imbue: 20.0
40 Hits
15 Constitution
15 Quickness
3 Melee Combat Speed
3 Melee Damage
5 Constitution Cap Increase
5 Quickness Cap Increase
Utility: 30.0
TOA Utility: 50.0

Feet:
Imbue: 37.5/32 (Quality: 100)
22 Quickness
9% Matter
9% Energy
7% Heat
Utility: 64.7
TOA Utility: 0.0

Right Hand:
Imbue: 37.5/32 (Quality: 100)
25 Dexterity
4 Shield
4 Parry
16 Strength
Utility: 67.3
TOA Utility: 0.0

Left Hand:
Imbue: 37.5/32 (Quality: 100)
25 Dexterity
4 Shield
4 Parry
16 Constitution
Utility: 67.3
TOA Utility: 0.0

Two-Handed (Malice's Axe):
Imbue: 20.0
15 Strength
15 Constitution
40 Hits
5 Strength Cap Increase
5 Constitution Cap Increase
40 Hits Cap Increase
5 Style Damage
5 Fatigue
Utility: 30.0
TOA Utility: 65.0

Neck (Ancient Copper Necklace):
Imbue: 45.0
10% Crush
10% Thrust
10% Body
10% Spirit
Utility: 80.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Cloak (Flowing Antalya Shawl):
Imbue: 26.0
16 Constitution
16 Strength
4 ALL melee weapon skills
6 Strength Cap Increase
6 Constitution Cap Increase
2 Melee Combat Speed
Utility: 41.3
TOA Utility: 34.0

Jewel (Gem of Lost Memories):
Imbue: 18.5
10 Constitution
24 Hits
4% Body
4% Matter
2 ALL melee weapon skills
2 Melee Damage
2 Style Damage
Utility: 38.7
TOA Utility: 20.0

Belt (Corrupt Cincture of Terkari):
Imbue: 17.0
6% Heat
48 Hits
8 Constitution Cap Increase
8 Strength Cap Increase
Utility: 24.0
TOA Utility: 32.0

Left Ring (Demon Blood Ring):
Imbue: 36.0
8% Crush
8% Slash
6% Thrust
6% Cold
6% Heat
Utility: 68.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Right Ring (Zahur's Ring):
Imbue: 40.0
6% Energy
6% Spirit
6% Body
6% Cold
6% Matter
60 Hits
Utility: 75.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Left Wrist (Naxos Abalone Bracer):
Imbue: 23.5
22 Strength
48 Hits
2 ALL melee weapon skills
2 Melee Combat Speed
8 Strength Cap Increase
Utility: 36.7
TOA Utility: 26.0

Right Wrist (Ebon Hide Bracer):
Imbue: 30.0
6% Cold
6% Body
6% Heat
6% Slash
6% Matter
Utility: 60.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Also some recent nice template from VN boards that is prolly cheaper than my and to use with DR and the upcoming artifact changes is that one here.

 

[Elitestoner]

with celerity 2h arms damage is pretty OP, hitting 400-500 a swing at capped speed

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I am looking for easy farmable mobs that drop them, any ideas?

 

[Arethir]

merc+armsman is weak imo. if you go for tank group, get 3 mercs or 2*merc + armsman, otherwise it won't work. if you're going for caster group, 1 merc is enough. we tried hybrid setup with Punishment, and it didnt work too good.

The whole idea is to use them AFTER 1.81, it will work better than 2 mercs then. And maybe you just need 2 stronger players than what you had in that combo if you couldn't make it work, arms with slam and 2h + merc should hurt some serious sht in assist train.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

The whole idea is to use them AFTER 1.81, it will work better than 2 mercs then. And maybe you just need 2 stronger players than what you had in that combo if you couldn't make it work, arms with slam and 2h + merc should hurt some serious sht in assist train.

It does. Played with two Mercs in a group a few times, it's sick.

The new RR5 combined with dashing defense will rock. 50% block and parry for the whole group, throw in SB and Warguard and Battler ABS buff and you have some super melee damage reduction for some time .

 

[Kagato]

Let me check for grouping in comparison with Merc at 1.81:

- 2-3 shoting casters with 2H Malice, in my opinion the damage is very good, at RR5 I ran Det4, AugQuickness3, MoPain3 with 401 strength it was nice, all this wank Merc >> Arms dmg wise is utter bullshit, go take a haste from a Theurg and an alacritous weapon and you will make every Merc jealous, my Arms has 101str/101con, 80 quick, 9/9/6 ToA without main weapon so it's pretty easy to build in and sick, you swing a 5.6+ speed weapon faster than a Merc his weapons,
- slam, 2H utility, crush artifact utility, also good vs Hibs, if you want to be an ass go Pole and perma snare someone with anytime style,
- massive hitpoints, good passive magic resists and shouts to increase that,
- CC deflection, semi-group purge (Purge2/Det4/Stoicism so does the job) make it up for charge I think,
- good new RR5 ability.

ML choice would depend on group setup. Throw weapon with 2H is quite funny to insta-kill casters that just just got freshly rezzed, BG works like a charm and will be even better in 1.81 with new RR5 and so on and Warlord ML10 is nice as well.

Your looking at things through rose tinted glasses mate if your trying to compare armsmen to mercs in group rvr. Your missing a lot of vital points from your arguement.

Firstly, no you wont be making any mercs jealous with your damage and you wont be 3 shotted any spellcasters, 9 times out of 10 your first second and third attacks will be absorbed by brittle guards and your fourth by blade turn, if after these 15 seconds your target hasn't been bodyguarded and you havent been grappled yet and your still alive and in melee range still you might land your first hit.

DW users will always have any advantage here for quickly ripping down enemy defenses. And thats not even looking at the Charge advantage, to which group purge and Det simply cannot compare.

400-500 a hit? you'll be lucky once you've gone up to cap speed, you can't have it both ways. I know, I specialised in the Alacritous haste template and have a nice stash of MP Alacritous weapons (which im not selling). Sure Armsmen can hit very hard, but if you then boost yourself to speed cap even with a 5.6 + weapon, theurg haste, Alac proc and quickness you'll soon see your damage per hit drop to very low proportions.

Yes you hit more frequently but don't delude yourself and other Armsmen into thinking you'll still be scoring big hits.

And of cause the price of using a haste proc on a weapon is that you'll lose having a nice offensive proc like Malice unless you plan to try wasting time switching weapons mid-fight, and even then Mercs still win out over you as they can have double your offensive proc potential on the enemy.

And if thats not enough, we then have flurry AND dirty tricks, and quite frankly, ignoring all of the above, dirty tricks alone would still make them better to use in a group then you. Its quite simply another 'I Win' button against any enemy tanks.

Yes 1.81 is nice, but trying to claim it makes mercs wank and you or any other armsmen better for groups is quite simply daft and fooling your own ego.

As for the RR5 + Dashing Defense, nice idea but it wont work for any of the group mates behind you, it only works on group mates in your visual frontal arc, and if your in the assist-train its pretty much pointless, think again.

Take the hits and resist and enjoy them, but don't get delusions of grandeour.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Your looking at things through rose tinted glasses mate if your trying to compare armsmen to mercs in group rvr. Your missing a lot of vital points from your arguement.

Firstly, no you wont be making any mercs jealous with your damage and you wont be 3 shotted any spellcasters, 9 times out of 10 your first second and third attacks will be absorbed by brittle guards and your fourth by blade turn, if after these 15 seconds your target hasn't been bodyguarded and you havent been grappled yet and your still alive and in melee range still you might land your first hit.

DW users will always have any advantage here for quickly ripping down enemy defenses. And thats not even looking at the Charge advantage, to which group purge and Det simply cannot compare.

400-500 a hit? you'll be lucky once you've gone up to cap speed, you can't have it both ways. I know, I specialised in the Alacritous haste template and have a nice stash of MP Alacritous weapons (which im not selling). Sure Armsmen can hit very hard, but if you then boost yourself to speed cap even with a 5.6 + weapon, theurg haste, Alac proc and quickness you'll soon see your damage per hit drop to very low proportions.

Yes you hit more frequently but don't delude yourself and other Armsmen into thinking you'll still be scoring big hits.

And of cause the price of using a haste proc on a weapon is that you'll lose having a nice offensive proc like Malice unless you plan to try wasting time switching weapons mid-fight, and even then Mercs still win out over you as they can have double your offensive proc potential on the enemy.

And if thats not enough, we then have flurry AND dirty tricks, and quite frankly, ignoring all of the above, dirty tricks alone would still make them better to use in a group then you. Its quite simply another 'I Win' button against any enemy tanks.

Yes 1.81 is nice, but trying to claim it makes mercs wank and you or any other armsmen better for groups is quite simply daft and fooling your own ego.

As for the RR5 + Dashing Defense, nice idea but it wont work for any of the group mates behind you, it only works on group mates in your visual frontal arc, and if your in the assist-train its pretty much pointless, think again.

Take the hits and resist and enjoy them, but don't get delusions of grandeour.

Seems we play a different game as I don't need 4 swings to destroy brittle guards and also not 15 seconds. Shieldswipe and throw weapon worked good for me. 2-3 hits with 2H are usually enough to kill a cloth caster that is not healed and I do it in the same time as a Merc, while the caster is snared and then stunned. If both doesn't work I have a very fast mace to take care of it. Grapplers and bodyguarders are a problem, but not in a good group with 3 tanks and some casters that know what they are doing. Good fights last long and you don't face blade turn or brittle guards anyway.

The new CC deflection is not a charge, but something towards the right direction and frankly I couldn't care less, even Det4 + Stoicism allows you to be in fight most of the time. Charge is a bonus for me.

I completly disagree on Mercs being better against enemy tanks, I never had any problems with Blademasters and Zerkers and Savages and with 1.81 it will be even easier. I can slam them, red con speed debuff or with Pole snare them and if they decide to fight me rip them apart with DR. I can grapple and bodyguard against them or use Warguard with Battler use2 with SB and with RR5. In solo fights I usually kill some 1-4 RRs higher than me without using Purge and IP2 and that with 2H/Shield/Crush.

I also don't care about big hits, I care about DPS and that what alacritous is for, it increases your DPS over time and amout of interrupts.

I'd take an Armsman anyday into a group when the player is good and the char done, especially when there is more than one Merc in it. Never said Mercs were wank and Armsmen to replace them, keep such allegations to yourself please .

 

[Doink-666]

Yeah Pbaoe Purge sucks

yeah and that 10%hp and 15% magic resist is a joke to god they cant get anything right these days!

 

[Kagato]

Seems we play a different game as I don't need 4 swings to destroy brittle guards and also not 15 seconds. Shieldswipe and throw weapon worked good for me. 2-3 hits with 2H are usually enough to kill a cloth caster that is not healed and I do it in the same time as a Merc, while the caster is snared and then stunned. If both doesn't work I have a very fast mace to take care of it. Grapplers and bodyguarders are a problem, but not in a good group with 3 tanks and some casters that know what they are doing. Good fights last long and you don't face blade turn or brittle guards anyway.

The new CC deflection is not a charge, but something towards the right direction and frankly I couldn't care less, even Det4 + Stoicism allows you to be in fight most of the time. Charge is a bonus for me.

I completly disagree on Mercs being better against enemy tanks, I never had any problems with Blademasters and Zerkers and Savages and with 1.81 it will be even easier. I can slam them, red con speed debuff or with Pole snare them and if they decide to fight me rip them apart with DR. I can grapple and bodyguard against them or use Warguard with Battler use2 with SB and with RR5. In solo fights I usually kill some 1-4 RRs higher than me without using Purge and IP2 and that with 2H/Shield/Crush.

I also don't care about big hits, I care about DPS and that what alacritous is for, it increases your DPS over time and amout of interrupts.

I'd take an Armsman anyday into a group when the player is good and the char done, especially when there is more than one Merc in it. Never said Mercs were wank and Armsmen to replace them, keep such allegations to yourself please .

Its not a matter of wether you can beat a savage or a bm, heck a bloody necro can beat them. Its what you can do about them, you can grapple oe disable 1 briefly, but with Dirty Tricks a merc can disable all enemy melee classes and still keep on fighting.

Wether they are a better 'tank' or not depends on the individuals opinion on what makes a good tank. Im not saying they are a better tank and i've beaten the best on the server in duels, all im saying is that in a full group situration mercs will still get picked over armsmen as 1.81 does very little to help us compete. We have nothing that will compete against a DW class with flurry and DT, and on the same note theres nothing we can do defensively that will make us a better option then paladins, we're still left in limbo inbetween the two.

 

[Raven]

agree with kagato 100% there just isnt room for an armsman in an alb group because other classes can do the same except better, sure the damage is ok in a 1v1 dick swinging compo but they just dont have the right toys for fg v fg.

 

[Galaha]

weeee time for back to play arsman!!!!

 

[Spetsnaz]

eirene's arogance is gonna be fixed (gif info)???

 

[Bubble]

While i respect your oppinion Kagato, i think Mani is planning to use his Armsman with a opt group as a part of an assist train not as a solo tank leaching in zerg combat.

Advantages of having a Armsman as the second tank in the assist train-

Shield- helps in meny ways, Shield Swipe to take out BG's etc, Slam to stun the target for 9 seconds before switching to 2h etc. Shield Swipe is also nice for getting past that nasty intercepting pet.

Offensive or Defensive Tank- Armsman can play both, if they encounter an tank heavy team he can instead use BG/Guard in a defensive way (Det5 tanks do make the best defensive tanks! ) specialy with there new RR5 ability etc. Armsman are ofc tougher to kill with Plate, extra 10% hps and shield/cool ras.

1.81 changes- That extra 15% resists and 10% hps shouldn't be knocked tbh, the rr5 ability also makes you tough as nails should the assist train turn on you.

Damage output- A armsman with capped Quickness, melee speed and a Alacritous weapon will just about equal a merc with the same. The only Difference being the armsman Styles on polearm and 2h have extra advantages (Such as an Anytime Snare and 7 sec stun behind style.

Armsman only RA's- Not meny use Soldiers Barricade, but its a great BoF like RA

Disadvantages-

Loss of second Banelord, Extra ZoU and Demoralise/banespike are always nice.

Loss of Damage output- you 'might' lose some dps if the armsman isn't kited as well as the merc.