Armor absorbtion

[Damon_D]

I give up.. some peopel will never learn/listen

 

[old.Cher]

truth be known i tested different af armours with a ns called brinn,

at lvl 46 with af102 qua 99 bonus 35% armour i was being hit by brinn of a p.a for 35 damage roughly (brins lvl24)

then i put on his armour and he pa'd me, for 250ish.

i then went a step further and put on af 12 armour, and he pa'd me for 450ish

then i stripped for my young ns apprentice, and also got hit for 450ish damage

i'm guessing 450is his damage cap, but all the armour i was wearing was leather, and i was sat for every hit.

this shows that there is a direct relation between af and damage taken, its not just absorb that affects the damage taken.

 

[Damon_D]

Let me know again when you find some lvl 46 armor with af 12...

plzz take 2 suits of armor both af 102 but with diff abs.. and do the same test.... okay ....

 

[lissandra]

Originally posted by Damon Doombring
LOL you gotta take the first price as assmonger of the month , I've seen dead dungbeetles smarter than you.

Now let me spell it out for you.

AF : determins how easy/hard it is to hit you

ABS : how much of the DMG is absorbt..thats why its call'd absorbation numbskull

Now piss of KATT..before I stuff you with dead mice

Wrong, just see how much u hit a caster for when he hasnt got his AF buff on, and compare to when he does have it on.

Or just put a couple of AF buffs on a friend and hit him alot of times.

 

[Fafnir]

Hmmm been reading on the hearald and have not learned anything else but i got a thought.

lets say you have AF 500 total and wearing chain abs 27%

500*27% = 135 could this be the value subtracted from weapon damage?

Best test would be put a tincan, chainwearer, scout and infil and have them sit down. take and infil and let him pa to make it even easier make sure they are all below rr5.

So this is my theory

Armor bonus negates the weapon bonus
Higher AF less chance to hit (thats why its harder to hit higherlvl players/mobs)
AF*Absorb is the value subtracted from damage taken.

 

[Damon_D]

´so whats the diff between the AF buff and the abs buff...Dont blame me if the git's who made the game cant figure it out themself...would not be the first time would it ?? Calling a spell one thing and having it do another thing , or intend to let AF work one way and ending up having it work a diff way.. I dont have the slightest doubt MYthic is capable of both those things. I think the reason AF works the way it does..is because peopel cant stand to miss..they will put up with doing less dmg.. but missing a target..no way..So instead of making AF work as it should.. its actualy working as +abs....is it silly..yes..is it confusing..yes...is it my fault..no ;-) It's not +abs = higher AF like some claim....its AF working as abs...kinda..instead of as intended...You can kinda see how it should work in the way AF has an effect on if a bolt will hit or miss..abs dont have any effect on that



And to the original poster..use the highest abs armor type you can but also make sure its at you lvl.. you cannot negiated one of the factors.. well you can but you will die alot more then


Aye Faf you prob right.. what we have is a clear case of some freak programming, that no one realy knows how works excactly..

I appologies for calling KATT stupid as a dungbeetle..clearly its MYthic that should be awarded that title for not being able to figure out how and why there programming works as it does

 

[Driwen]

damon dont make your point if you have no clue what you are talking about. You guessed af would work like in most games in here it does not. Btw it isnt that weird that AF doesnt matter for you to hit chance, as why would wearing better armour making you harder to hit. It would make you harder to damage on you though.

 

[Fafnir]

Originally posted by driwen
damon dont make your point if you have no clue what you are talking about. You guessed af would work like in most games in here it does not. Btw it isnt that weird that AF doesnt matter for you to hit chance, as why would wearing better armour making you harder to hit. It would make you harder to damage on you though.

Hhhmmm i think we have freedom of speech here, or dont we?

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Fafnir
AF*Absorb is the value subtracted from damage taken.

not that easy, but af*absorb is your "basic defense formula", guess it depends on attackers weaponskill, level, dps etc after that.

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Damon Doombring
so whats the diff between the AF buff and the abs buff

AF buff adds a set amount, abs buff adds a certain %.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Damon Doombring
LOL you gotta take the first price as assmonger of the month , I've seen dead dungbeetles smarter than you.

Now let me spell it out for you.

AF : determins how easy/hard it is to hit you

ABS : how much of the DMG is absorbt..thats why its call'd absorbation numbskull

Now piss of KATT..before I stuff you with dead mice

If that where true, i would have a harder time hitting Armsmen than i would casters.


But i dont.

And i would Hit lvl 46-49 (yellow con) same damage as i hit lvl 50s.

But i dont.


ofc not accounting for BT, block, parry, evade etc

 

[Jim_Spurious]

Sorry, but I have rarely seen so many vague and unfounded suppositions in a single thread.

Ok, will try and help if I can.

The only things that effect chance to hit are the attackers level vs the defenders level, magic bonus on weapon vs magic bonus on armour, any style bonus and the position from which you are hitting.

AF has no impact on how hard you are to hit, it does effect how hard you get hit. If you have higher AF you take less damage in the total damage calculation. Once this damage is calculated then the absorb factors and then weapon bonus factors (ie. blunt weapon against plate) are applied.

In answer to the question of which factor is the most important - absorb or AF - I don't know, and it would seem that no-one here knows. I can only guarantee you that AF does NOT effect chance to hit.

You would need access to the complete combat damage formulas to work it out, and I am sorry but I dont have them, neither does anyone else here, but I have seen them. I can only recommend running around with both types of armour and see which works best for you.

All I can tell you is that in light of the stirling intellectual commentary I have seen so far, you are far better off going out there and testing it for yourself.

 

[Graknak]

Ok can anyone tell me then what Bunker of Faith (Cleric RA, +50% Abs for 30 secs) does when a lvl 50 cleric has Epic armour (chain Af100, 27% Abs) and maxed +Af from buffs?
(Any changes regarding AF, dmg taken and getting hit %)

 

[old.m0000]

a) no one cares
b) katt is wrong

but let me remind you of a)

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Fafnir
Hhhmmm i think we have freedom of speech here, or dont we?

freedom of speech in this world yes. Well most, on this board no. This is a private board, the mods word is final. But I aint a mod. However I found it rather irritating that he keeps on going that he was right and in the end he was proven wrong. I find it irritating that a person just keeps on saying he is sure he is correct when he to be honest has no clue whether or not he is right.

btw m000 people do care or otherwise this thread wouldnt have 2 pages and b) katt is correct

according to the savage tl (could probably find these formula's in more class faq's) :

Effective AF = Listed AF * Quality * (1 + (absorb * quality))
For total AF you multiply the AF formulae results by 6.(assuming all peices are same AF and quality)

Effective AF = (Listed AF * Quality * (1 + (absorb * quality))) * 6

Damage = WeapDmg (which is a possibly capped weapon DPS) * Delay * Quality * Condition * (WeapSkill / Target's AF)

these formula's might be a bit off, but they do show you how AF works. Btw target's af means effective af and the hunter TL uses the same formula to explain how damage is calculated.

And i think the BOF just gets added on the effective AF is some way. Which is how the damage done on you decreases.

Hit percentage isn't dependent on your weaponskill and neither is it on your AF.

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by driwen
freedom of speech in this world yes. Well most, on this board no. This is a private board, the mods word is final. But I aint a mod. However I found it rather irritating that he keeps on going that he was right and in the end he was proven wrong. I find it irritating that a person just keeps on saying he is sure he is correct when he to be honest has no clue whether or not he is right.

btw m000 people do care or otherwise this thread wouldnt have 2 pages and b) katt is correct

according to the savage tl (could probably find these formula's in more class faq's) :

Effective AF = Listed AF * Quality * (1 + (absorb * quality))
For total AF you multiply the AF formulae results by 6.(assuming all peices are same AF and quality)

Effective AF = (Listed AF * Quality * (1 + (absorb * quality))) * 6

Damage = WeapDmg (which is a possibly capped weapon DPS) * Delay * Quality * Condition * (WeapSkill / Target's AF)

these formula's might be a bit off, but they do show you how AF works. Btw target's af means effective af and the hunter TL uses the same formula to explain how damage is calculated.

And i think the BOF just gets added on the effective AF is some way. Which is how the damage done on you decreases.

Hit percentage isn't dependent on your weaponskill and neither is it on your AF.

BoF is actually calculated before all of that which is why even though it says 50% absorb increase. its more like 70-80% because if a zerker is hitting a cleric for 450 a swing and then the clerics fires off BoF that zerker should then be hitting for 225 dmg. but he doesnt.. he actually hits for around 50-75 dmg which is way more than 50% absorb ;p

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by old.Emma
BoF is actually calculated before all of that which is why even though it says 50% absorb increase. its more like 70-80% because if a zerker is hitting a cleric for 450 a swing and then the clerics fires off BoF that zerker should then be hitting for 225 dmg. but he doesnt.. he actually hits for around 50-75 dmg which is way more than 50% absorb ;p

resist is calculated after everything else . So person hits for 600 due to his weaponskill/af/other stuff and then 444 due to resists (that would be 26% resist). 50% increase in AF wouldnt just half the damage. Someone gets 50% extra absorption, but he already had some off his armour.

Ok asuming your a cleric with 27% absorption. You get 50% extra, that would mean you got 77% absorption now.

Effective AF = Listed AF * Quality * (1 + (absorb * quality))

so from 1.27 extra you go to 1.77 so thats an increase of 1.40 in your af (assuming this whole formula is correct...). So the damage done on you is decreased by factor of 1.40.
600/1.40 = 429 and then the resists kick in. So you would be hit for 317, but if you are a mage your absorbtion would go from 0 to 50%. Which would mean a higher effect on the damage done on you. Again I might be wrong, but this is how I read this formula's, if they are correct at all. I do however believe that the idea of these formula's are correct as that is reasonable easy to find out.

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by old.m0000
a) no one cares
b) katt is wrong

but let me remind you of a)

[13:23] <moo|work> 9% of 120 = ~100 near as arse

 

[old.Lythande]

Agree with Katt on this one.

The reasoning behind AF and ABS is that AF on items determines item-level, so in order for heavy tanks etc to be able to get better defense they get higher ABS on their armor(chain/plate) which raises your _EFFECTIVE_ AF.

AF only determines how much damage you take from melee, to-hit is a mix of things including level disparity, bonus on weapon vs bonus on armor, weaponskill and probably more since Mythic seem to like ridiculously complex formulae for everything they do.

 

[Wend]

It has always been my understanding that more AF means (among other things) a higher chance to completely negate a blow (displayed as a "miss" in game). This was explained way back in the 1.36 notes or so when they upgraded items to have more durability and it was thoroughly researched by Johanas and Glug Glug, both regulars on VN at the time. Johanas wrote the definitive guide on AF back then which is sadly horribly outdated now but can still be found here: http://www.yeggs.net/underfoot/cgi-...rd=general_rvr;action=display;num=1017299485.

Found note on it on herald:

"Each time your torso
is struck, including times that it completely absorbs the blow and it is
displayed as a miss, you will lose the same points that a weapon loses when it swings."

So, AF doesn't factor into hit/miss chance, but it does factor in to your chance of completely negating a blow, displayed as a "miss". This was definately true a year ago. It was a big deal back then, have people forgotten or has that changed since then?

Remember casters Out There in the wild will have their shields up.

Absorb decreases damage taken when a hit lands, affected by quality. Both AF and absorb are affected by quality hence the great importance of having high quality armor (I remember this being a big deal on VN back then, quality plays a role twice).

It might have changed though, admittedly I have not really kept up since they introduced epic armor.

 

[Wend]

Originally posted by driwen

Effective AF = Listed AF * Quality * (1 + (absorb * quality))
For total AF you multiply the AF formulae results by 6.(assuming all peices are same AF and quality)

Without testing it I reckon this is patently false even today.

That would mean my AF should be 762. I can't get higher than 647 (I am RR5) and in epic I get 635 AF. So either different armor pieces are still weighted differently in the equation (as they are imo) or my cap is preventing me from getting that much AF.

 

[katt!]

*5 = 635 for af 100 qua 100 chain armor.

 

[Damon_D]

Originally posted by driwen
damon dont make your point if you have no clue what you are talking about. You guessed af would work like in most games in here it does not. Btw it isnt that weird that AF doesnt matter for you to hit chance, as why would wearing better armour making you harder to hit. It would make you harder to damage on you though.

Dohh I'm not guessing here dufus..I'm was trying to translate what Goa stated on the homepage as being " how it works " to bad that it dont work like that in game ( as it being a bit more complicated than that ) ..now go away or read ALL the posts carefully..and to you Q..why would armor make you harder to hit...it makes it harder to hit your VITAL PARTS..Yeeppee I hit him on his heavily armored arm.. now he is surely gonna die...NOT..

And atleast I admitted I was wrong... well wrong to trust in what those who made the game states as how it works..And those nice looking copy paste formulars...they still dont make it clear WHY it works like that and not as it was stated by those who make the game...It's just a formular put together to reflect more or less the effect we see ingame..its not something they got from the programmers , its not the entire truth..Because no one.. apparently not even those making the game know how it works " precisely " and why ??? You call peopel clueless.even thou you apparently dont have a " clue " yourself..No repeating what other " think " is right dont make you have more of a clue than me..Because that what was I did wrong...

 

[Danya]

Absorb is a percentage bonus to AF.
AF most definitely affects damage taken, ask any caster that experienced the caster AF shield bug.

 

[Solid]

Originally posted by Damon Doombring
..and to you Q..why would armor make you harder to hit...it makes it harder to hit your VITAL PARTS..Yeeppee I hit him on his heavily armored arm.. now he is surely gonna die...NOT..

Oopsy Damon Contradiction eh

Being hit on your armour is still BEING HIT is it not?

Anyway all I know is higher AF = good, why do we even need to discuss? just invest in the highest quality you can afford of the highest absorb best AF armour you can wear.

We really dont need to argue do we?

 

[Fafnir]

Originally posted by Solid
We really dont need to argue do we?

Its fun to argue

 

[Damon_D]

Aye it is Solid...but then nothing but evade , parry and shield specc should affect if your being hit ( modified by dex and quickness of course )...kinda hard to miss a 6 foot dude moving slow as hell in a heavy plate suit ( why dont a plate suit weighing a ton give dex penalty ?? ) ...so AF dont have anything to do with if u get hit... ??? If its all a matter of how much dmg you take.. why call it two diff things ??? if abs is just more af.. why the hell call it abs ??? Well leaving this thread for good..its clear NO ONE knows how it works excatly..

 

[old.m0000]

Originally posted by katt!
[13:23] <moo|work> 9% of 120 = ~100 near as arse

[13:23] <moo|work> 90% i mean, typo

and you're still wrong

and still no one cares

 

[kr0n]

Actually, cloth is actually better than Leather.
On a mage.

With L50 AF buff you have almost the same amount of AF as 102 Leather.
With 10% Absorb Buff you have same amount of absorb as leather.
Cloth has neutral to ALL resists. Whilst Leather has vulnerabilities.
But of course on a leatherwearer cloth sucks, but on a mage its equal or even better on a mage

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Originally posted by kr0n
Actually, cloth is actually better than Leather.
On a mage.

With L50 AF buff you have almost the same amount of AF as 102 Leather.
With 10% Absorb Buff you have same amount of absorb as leather.
Cloth has neutral to ALL resists. Whilst Leather has vulnerabilities.
But of course on a leatherwearer cloth sucks, but on a mage its equal or even better on a mage

Hehe had never thought of that. However, SB with Boney damage absorb buff might get better. Don't know for sure though.