Archers, scout's got... lemme see... hmm...

[Tranquil-]

I played beta too.

The stuff I listed isn't unbalancing the game. It's just that the comparisons that the Scout's shieldspec is supposed to be the PF/BC line of Hunters/Rangers. Currently it's not.


edit: And if I wanted to give Mythic reasons to nerf rangers I wouldn't be posting on this messageboard.

 

[Falcon]

Scouts damage is higher than rangers by roughly 50dmg. I posted a thread not terribly long ago, called Xest's theory of bowativity in the Prydwen/Hibernia forum, go look it up for an explanation of how bow works. A ranger with 50 +20 recurve will cap out at something like 1090, whereas a scout can easily clear 1100 at the same spec.

Who uses the speed shout for running away from someone anyway? Fuck that, it's to catch those who try to run away from you, or to charge enemy mages combined with stealth to get you safely on their arse with dual sickles at the start of a battle

 

[Falcon]

Spice: My ranger can beat anything in the other realms in melee except zerkers and friars with some degree of success. If you spec a ranger for melee AND get some shots into your target first you can beat anything 1 vs 1, from armsman to zerkers, to savages to friars.

 

[Tranquil-]

I've read your thread. Ofcourse there is a base damage based on the dps/spd of your bow and then spec/stats modify that. What's the point of your thread?

What are you saying?

There has also been numerous threads about the amount of damage per skillpoint all over vnboards and early on the critshot boards and all of them conclude with the ~4 damage per point theory. It's also a known fact that dex improves your weaponskill and thus raises your damage median and decreases variance.

Now about the part where you say that scout bow hits for harder than ranger. In that thread I couldn't find anything even remotely proving or insinuating that scouts have a natural higher base bow damage.

Oaklief the scout teamlead says in his teamlead reports that apart from the range differance scout and ranger archery is identical since rangers got their heavy recurve bows.

 

[Eleasias]

Originally posted by Nemesis Warlock



the zerker was afk

there is no ranger that can beat a zerker in melee ... wot u thinking ?`Alone base HP and base dam dont match.

I beat sub in a melee duel ~~ he didnt rat tho

 

[Svartur]

Rangers are good, especially if there is no bufbots in the equations.

However I have never been killed by neither a ranger or scout in a pure 1on1 encounter yet as long as I can remember. But then again you rarely see a solo ranger on Prydwen. Scouts are more abundant though but less of a problem.
Before respecc became available there where only sniper rangers around and they where almost as easy to kill as a scout and now you rarely see them instead.

Bow wise though, hunters lagg behind. You have access to our bow speed and have slower bows we cannot access in return.
If buffed a scout totally negates the only setback he has compared to a hunter using a bow.
You can shoot as fast as us and do more damage with bow if you like. Melee wise its different though.

I accept being inferiour to scouts in archery but I expect to win in melee.

In short. As a scout, dont expect to win in melee, you are the most defensive and more damaging archer at range. That rangers can access your slow bows is another matter though.

I do think that Scouts might need some sort of bone though I am not sure what.

Xest bring back your ranger.

 

[Falcon]

Tranquil, as I said, Rangers definetely CANT get a cap over 1000, Scouts definetely CAN. It's been proved and screenshotted a thousand times.

I will bring my ranger back Svartur, soon

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Falcon
Tranquil, as I said, Rangers definetely CANT get a cap over 1000, Scouts definetely CAN. It's been proved and screenshotted a thousand times.

I will bring my ranger back Svartur, soon

Cap over 1100 or 1000? Rangers CAN cap over 1000, but I've never seen any shots or heard about any of the archers capping at more than ~1090. Definately not over 1100.

Bring some evidence, I'd like to see something else than your personal theory not backed up by anything.

I think both Oaklief and Taco would like to see your evidence aswell , cause I asked Oaklief about this to get it confirmed.

This is a quote from the PM I sent him:

Re: Ranger/Scout bow caps
You are correct. A scout and a ranger with equal modified bow spec, shooting at identical targets (Taco and I got a test mob on Pendragon to do this with several months back) with identical DPS/delay bows have the same damage range.

Can you show me one of those thousands of screenshots you talk about? I'd like to see one.

 

[Jergiot]

.

.

Originally posted by kinag
Hmmm, scouts got the best bow dmg no doubt, and with slam, damn they hurt even more

My hunter can solo orange ok, but damn, i played my Friar lvl 21 out in the frontier and met a scout same lvl, we teamed up and went for red trees... it ended up with the scout soloed the trees when i sat back on the hill, he actually killed red trees with his bow even without going into melee mode...

My hunter gets maybe 4 shots in including one critshot on orange mob and then the mob got about 35% - 65% hp left.. i have to turn to my spear... but that crazy scout shot 4 or 5 shots at the tree and it died...

dont know actually what you want more balanced..

since when is PvE=RvR?!?!!?

 

[Falcon]

Yeah, it was a typo, was ment to be 1100 sorry.

I'll have a look for you, but refuse to go to VN Boards because apparently you're not allowed to suggest that a TL that hasn't been active for months and hasn't posted a report since 1.53 is useless

Remember also, that if you've seen archers hit for 1090, they probably were scouts seeing as no ranger in existence AFAIK is RR10 and that's what would be required to acheive that.

Admittedly it HAS been a while since I've seen any scouts showing off such caps, but I never heard of any scout damage nerf unless I've missed something ?

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Falcon
Yeah, it was a typo, was ment to be 1100 sorry.

I'll have a look for you, but refuse to go to VN Boards because apparently you're not allowed to suggest that a TL that hasn't been active for months and hasn't posted a report since 1.53 is useless

Remember also, that if you've seen archers hit for 1090, they probably were scouts seeing as no ranger in existence AFAIK is RR10 and that's what would be required to acheive that.

Admittedly it HAS been a while since I've seen any scouts showing off such caps, but I never heard of any scout damage nerf unless I've missed something ?

TL's aren't obliged to post their reports in public you know, only to Mythic.

I haven't personally seen any archers hit for that kind of damage, but the caps at the higher realmranks give a pretty good idea of what it will be since the stepups in cap is equal per RR. And no Scout in recent patches(the 10 last patches ATLEAST) has been able to get a damage cap above 1100.

There hasn't been any recent damage nerfs(not official atleast), but damage was decreased across the board after retail went live. So unless your evidence is older than that it's false. It wouldn't be valid now anyway though. Rangers didn't have the Heavy Recurve bows back then anyway.

Feel free to browse www.daocscout.com in search for the patchnote where the damage was lowered.

Also the point that both the ranger TL and the scout TL has done tests on the issue and they show an identical archery line should say something shouldn't it?

 

[kinag]

Originally posted by Tranquil-

No offense, but that seems to be more because you don't know what you are talking about.

Read all the posts before you post straight out false info. Or even better, don't post false info.

Sure, but i havent spended my whole life since DAoC came out reading the net of facts about the game, so calm down, you take things to much serious.. its a god damn game...

and speaking of false info, i was just telling from my personal experience.. so no need to get angry for nothing...

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by kinag


Sure, but i havent spended my whole life since DAoC came out reading the net of facts about the game, so calm down, you take things to much serious.. its a god damn game...

and speaking of false info, i was just telling from my personal experience.. so no need to get angry for nothing...

What if I like to find out how things work? I'm a curious person. Is that to take things to seriously?

I only responded to your statements and said what was and what was not correct and realistic. People look on messageboards to get facts and information about classes, to give them correct information from the start can't be wrong. You gave an impression that scouts pwn everything and soloed better than a friar.

And I'm not angry, I just don't butter up my posts with smileys when talking facts.

You also said: "dont know actually what you want more balanced..". The scenario you described was at lvl 21, you can't really talk class balance at such a low lvl either.

 

[mskin]

 

[Gekul]

22 (atm) posts of one word answers and smilies, what's the point?

 

[kinag]

Ok, im sorry to give you all wrong information..
I dont want to argue about this, wanna put it behind us?

and i sorry if i didnt follow any rules of the board...
i wont post anything like that anymore..

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by kinag
Ok, im sorry to give you all wrong information..
I dont want to argue about this, wanna put it behind us?

and i sorry if i didnt follow any rules of the board...
i wont post anything like that anymore..

I didn't argue, I merely pointed out that alot of your points weren't valid. You didn't commit a crime.

I used one exclamation point because alot of people seems to think that what you said is right, even though it only seems that way because other factors creates misconceptions. And misconceptions is what alot of whines are based on.

I didn't mean to come over heavy with my post, for that I'm sorry, but I'm not angry

 

[kinag]

You really think people thought the same as me?


good we finally sorted this out (dont want to be blacklisted from this forum ) hehe

 

[Nemesis Warlock]

Originally posted by Falcon
Scouts damage is higher than rangers by roughly 50dmg. I posted a thread not terribly long ago, called Xest's theory of bowativity in the Prydwen/Hibernia forum, go look it up for an explanation of how bow works. A ranger with 50 +20 recurve will cap out at something like 1090, whereas a scout can easily clear 1100 at the same spec.

For info my dam cap is 1065 with 65 bow (50+15).. or was it 1080 ;P ? damn ;P

EDIT:

It was 1068 ;P yay

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by kinag
You really think people thought the same as me?


good we finally sorted this out (dont want to be blacklisted from this forum ) hehe

No, I know alot of people think alot about how they think stuff works, when it really doesn't.

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Nemesis Warlock


For info my dam cap is 1065 with 65 bow (50+15).. or was it 1080 ;P ? damn ;P

EDIT:

It was 1068 ;P yay

And a scout with the exact same specs and stats would hit for the same damage if he had the same speed/dps on the bow.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by kinag
good we finally sorted this out (dont want to be blacklisted from this forum ) hehe

You managed to post a reasonable discussion (if factually inaccurate...) and not just a constant stream of '' or 'k' or random abuse

You're off to a far better start than most on here

 

[nerfdom]

Findings

Yo

Here are my experiences of scouts so far - level 47 now.

BG1 was specced full bow/full stealth (with items +5)/shield 7(for engage) and the rest in thrust. Had a great time and was capped in a matter of days. Infs were not a problem as i hardly ever encountered them as i would move rapidly after i killed anyone. Good news so far eh.

47 now - totally different story.

Since BG1 decided to keep thrust at max for level to help with levelling - no running from mobs that i missed crit on. Worked a treat - still works as i have killed many mobs - even some orange - with just my sword!. Specced now? - Full spellcrafted 102af 99% quality suit on which means i am resistant to loads and maxxed in dex/quickness/str and con. Longbow is base 44 and 10 with suit so way over level - thrust is 47, stealth is about 36-38 i think with suit, shield is still only 7. Using a 99% quality dirk with 2.2 spd and a level 47 fire proc on it. With quickness now 172 i swing very rapidly. So far sounds great eh? Read on!

Blasted to bits in Emain - after getting mezzed for so long i could have made a cup of coffee! Decided to do some duelling for the hell of it to see what i could do. The more you do of this stuff the better i thought as you can only learn. Went mental and decided to attack a level 50 armsman and a level 50 paladin (both orange). No kidding i could not actually hit the armsman with his blocking! and me with a 2.2 spd dirk? Same went for the paladin - impossible to get off any styles though i did hit him a few times for a rediculously low amount. Now then i hear you say - 15 dps dirk? - why ain't you using a 16.5 dps slow weap for hard hitting? Waste of time i found it as the slowness makes styles near impossible to get off on anything with any speed. Well what am i upset about?

Jumped by a red essence shredder in Darkness - got him down to just over 1/2 health before people helped. This is a fast monster but i was evading madly. Again had 3 - yes 3!!! yellow tempters on me and killed them ALL with as i said before sword only! I use detaunt with a followup that slows the mob down some so my defensive moves are good - evasion is up etc. Now if i can do that to a RED - READ - RED - essence shredder and 3 yellows at once how come i cannot even hit an armsman? The armsman and pala were like high purple mobs on steroids.

Where do i go from here?

To be honest it don't look good. As i have used thrust to level i now find myself great on mobs and useless on players. Only thing is to either fully respec to slam shield or to use this alt for money making purposes. Was hoping to use level 50 dragonfang to get my 9 sec stun off but what a joke that is.

One more thing!

See hidden - hope you are aware this but if a SB has this he can see you no matter what for 10 mins after you have shot an arrow at anything - eh?. There is no defense against this apart from camoflage (10mins after you shoot bow). Try and run and hide from a mob with a SB with this - should be fun!

Conclusions

For goodness sake don't try and create a thrust scout. Infact forget all about any melee and concentrate fully on fast bow speed with max damage and high stealth. Don't forget the all important slam. This is gonna be my spec after the next patch and the all important respec stones become available. As for the issues with stealth - well all to hell if you ask me as it seems infs/sbs etc have all the advantages going.

Disgruntled thrust scout

Peaceful

 

[old.moriath]

But one would ask the question why try and melee an armsman and a pali ..... you are a cloth killer / SB killer if you see them.

Any shield specc'd tank can just engage you till you run out of end meaning he blocks all your hits then he kills you when u can no longer style.

Try a duel with a studded armour user or someone that thrust is bonus against instead of the hardest class for an archer to kill ... a tank

I wont even attempt a tank solo in RvR its not worth the pain.

 

[Tranquil-]

A scout with 7 shield can also engage. So what if he engages? You'll find out if he does and then it's just to go unstyled untill he stops to engage.

 

[Falcon]

Here are my experiences of scouts so far - level 47 now.

BG1 was specced full bow/full stealth (with items +5)/shield 7(for engage) and the rest in thrust. Had a great time and was capped in a matter of days. Infs were not a problem as i hardly ever encountered them as i would move rapidly after i killed anyone. Good news so far eh.

TBH I'd be quite scared if, being a scout, Infs were a problem. I think it's the NS' and SB's you should be watching out for mate

 

[old.moriath]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
A scout with 7 shield can also engage. So what if he engages? You'll find out if he does and then it's just to go unstyled untill he stops to engage.

But then he has a lot higher shield than 7 as he doesnt have to put points in 2 weapons and stealth and shield they get 2 points per lvl and only 3 spec lines so he will block more anyway. I found the only way to beat a shield spec with a hunter is to strafe around and get behind them pull off the 6 sec stun and follow up and that way you have half a chance ... with block and parry its even harder to even hit a warrior / thane.

7 shield insent a lot to block back with

and the shield spec guy just needs to slam you and your basically dead unless you purge cause they have a lot higher dmg output with thier primary weapon.
I you wanted a melee archer should have gone hunter as they have higher melee / more melee dmg output

 

[shius]

whine!

 

[old.moriath]

Originally posted by shius
whine!

Hmm what an intelligent comment ... guess you only have a one word vocabulary.

And what i posted wasn't a whine I don't play a scout and dont intend to I play a hunter and don't mind picking my targets. I don't ex[ect to own every class.

Why not ask mummy to buy you a dictionary for your birthday see if you can learn some other interesting words. Or try easy Peter and Jane books to start with don't want to make it too difficult to begin with.

 

[Armalite]

Ok, have'nt read anything but the first post in this thread, but it seems to be a common opinion that an archer class should be able to one-shot or nearly 1shot other chars. Excuse the language, but why the hell do most ppl think that??? There is no reason an archer should be able to do this? You think an arrow in you chest do more damage than a sturdy piece of sword/axe do? Stop whining about low damage, etc.. Yes you do need a few arrows to get some1 down, but evry other char need a few chops with his weapon to do this too!