Archers and 1.88

[Rhoma]

Solo archers

Duos, trios of archer (or more) will get fun


And too many whines (from casters) will make archers get a new nerf

 

[aika]

From what i've read, RF does crap damage, so that was probably two PB shots.


I'm not sure what to make of the changes, tbh. Lots of people on VN whine, but some say they like them.
If 2-3 archers assist on a caster, i don't see why he shouldn't die. He would have died with todays archery as well. I know my skald and zerker would.
Some archers on VN whine about too low damage on crit shot, but it's basically a ranged PA now, that doesn't require positioning. Ye, I know it doesn't have a followup stun like PA-CD.
Stuff like PB shots seems quite nice. What doesn't seem too good is the missrate and not being able to hold an arrow before releasing.

Overall, it looks ok'ish. Might have been better to simply do some small fixes to the old system, like have critshot penetrate defence/BT and make 50 archery worth speccing.
I don't really like the idea of making archers into stealthed casters, but who knows, it may not be so bad once i try it, if i will ever play my hunter.

I bet we'll see lots of new archers out though. Many of them assisting eachother, because most of the new ones wont be the solo type.
Because of this, i'm sure some will think the archery system is unbalanced and OPed, but lots of assasting archers today can kill stuff too. We'll just see more of it after the archery patch.

It's not like a ranged PA cause afaik it doesnt pop bt?

 

[censi]

archers are prolly the only class thats been so heavily nerfed that even a duo/trio of them assisting can get pwned by a solo visual...

 

[liloe]

archers are prolly the only class thats been so heavily nerfed that even a duo/trio of them assisting can get pwned by a solo visual...

We'll see =) I have a few bows in my inv that need testing with that system.

Btw, classic hunters will be pretty pissed by these changes, cause now they have to spec bow for the buffs or BC for the pet, even as melee hunter. Well ok, they can run without the buffs, but only sword spec then, as spear hunters want the dex

 

[Zoia]

It's not like a ranged PA cause afaik it doesnt pop bt?

No, it's not exactely like a PA, but it's from range and without any positional requirements. The target no longer have to stand still and it will also bypass shields.
The damage isn't that much worse than a PA either.

 

[Cromcruaich]

the miss rate is supposed to be a bit of a shocker...

wonder if mages would stand for them casting spells and getting a "miss" message.

you cant afford to like attack something on a ranged class (archers aint strong in melee) and just get misses.

Void eldie, we do, and sometimes the miss rate is 100%. No use someone saying it misses 7 times out of 10, that wont be the mean - we all get unlucky runs now and again.



*edit
Wait and see how it pans out anyhow, easy to get worked up about these things when it might only end up a minor irritation.

@Other person lower down
As things stand 2 archers may well be able to kill someone assisting with critshot now and again, but they can only make the shot if the target stands still - this makes sense - archers then have to wait for there chance and stalk their prey - wait for caster to start casting. But with this change it just means that 2 archers can perma crit shot on anything that moves. Get enough of them and its pretty much insta death for anything that moves, they can the simply restealth - rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

 

[censi]

Btw, classic hunters will be pretty pissed by these changes, cause now they have to spec bow for the buffs or BC for the pet, even as melee hunter. Well ok, they can run without the buffs, but only sword spec then, as spear hunters want the dex

thats what they are saying. but the reality is they now spec 39 weapon, 40 beast, 49-50 total stealth rest bow (will be 35-40 depending on rr).

This will give them strong melee. strong bow, good buffs. and ghey pet.

 

[Cromcruaich]

thats what they are saying. but the reality is they now spec 39 weapon, 40 beast, 49-50 total stealth rest bow (will be 35-40 depending on rr).

This will give them strong melee. strong bow, good buffs. and ghey pet.

I hate that 'kin pet. When they gonna nerf the disease proc rate?

 

[censi]

Wait and see how it pans out anyhow, easy to get worked up about these things when it might only end up a minor irritation.

yer defo agree. I dont treat VN boards as gosple. and also people tend to whine like mofos when any changes are made.

the only thing is I know ranger melee is gonna sux balls come 1.87. but tbh I am kind of looking forward to playing the ranger as a sniper/hybrid. I think the whole melee ranger thing has got a bit stale. and change with forces archers to spec archery and use archery has to be good i guess.

 

[Hawkwind]

Might be worth dusting off the old scout then. Is the stealther population worth renewing?

 

[Takhasis]

Can't wait for 1.87 and Frenzy on my pet...

but come 1.88 the "best" hunter spec is 50 bow, 39 or 44 spear, stealth (mod'd to +50), and bugger all BC which means i lose my ickle pet

And losing PD sux so big, which is why i asked in the other thread if the "great mythirian of protection" is equivalent of PD3?

 

[aika]

Losing PD isnt such a problem, everyone with half a brain cell will instantly switch to legendary when he sees his damage go something like 200(-150) anyway

 

[Kinetix]

I'm not sure what to make of the changes, tbh. Lots of people on VN whine, but some say they like them.
If 2-3 archers assist on a caster, i don't see why he shouldn't die. He would have died with todays archery as well. I know my skald and zerker would.
Some archers on VN whine about too low damage on crit shot, but it's basically a ranged PA now, that doesn't require positioning. Ye, I know it doesn't have a followup stun like PA-CD.
Stuff like PB shots seems quite nice. What doesn't seem too good is the missrate and not being able to hold an arrow before releasing.

Overall, it looks ok'ish. Might have been better to simply do some small fixes to the old system, like have critshot penetrate defence/BT and make 50 archery worth speccing.
I don't really like the idea of making archers into stealthed casters, but who knows, it may not be so bad once i try it, if i will ever play my hunter.

Know little about scouts, mine is only rr2l6 but i agree Zoia says

 

[thergador]

As things stand 2 archers may well be able to kill someone assisting with critshot now and again,

sorry but thats changed now crit shot works only while stealthed but it dont matter if the target is moving or not

miss rates on RF seem to be about 50 to 60 % at least
hunts the scout TL has said its seems to be bugged as it seems to be using the old caster bolt code and not using it correctly or something

 

[swifteagle]

I just hope you guys dont face what happened on the classic cluster when 1.88 went live.

It wasnt unusual to find yourself facing 11+ hunters or the same amount of scouts camping docks etc when a port was cut.

Basically it was team zerg but everywhere you went not just one or 2 groups,the first day in hib there were 159 hibs online and 79 of those were rangers and about the same in all other realms and as the population increased so did the amount of archers logging in.

Archer damage isnt great btw for all those expecting to roll one and go out and kill everything in sight,my highest crit was against a warlock with only 10% melee resists and that was 700 with 50 archery(compared to my old crit shot which even on a low RR ranger with only 40 bow was 1000 or so),normal crit shot damage ranged from 400-550 ,normal shots also are a bit lower but can be alot faster than the old system.

For anyone that played an archer after the first nerf with increased fumbles,blocked by pbt etc it feels very much like that again with the miss rate and lower damage

Edit rangers are now probably the PVE kings btw can easily 2 shot high oranges with a crit followed by a power shot and use no end while doing it

 

[eble@work]

Honestly the population is that low on this cluster that if we all went and log our archer toons, we would have everyone camping twrs and not moving, whatever has happ'd elsewhere is no indication of what to expect on this cluster.

1.88 will pass by without too much of a problem for this cluster, granted the melee rangers/hunters will vanish, but new scouts will appear.

Will just mean the few archers left 'will' fight from the advantage i.e bridges/twrs/keeps, no longer being able to defend ourselves against infils/SB/NS's.

I tried the new system out on pendragon, thought it was shite and that was before the nerf'd the critshot the day of release.

I'll try my best to play when it hits but I'm thinking it's the end of the road to be honest.

Eble

 

[censi]

melee hunters aint effected by the melee nerf really.

well they loose they parry penetration.

spec 50 sword 40 beast. rest whatever. low archery though. will still = big pwn.

melee hunters are gonna do horrible horrible things to rangers. because the pet stops any chance for ranger to use his bow and hunter melee will be >>>> than ranger melee.

Rangers hope is to get the jump with mos5 hope crit dont miss. grit teeth and try and pummel down with pokers. thing is if hunter fz's you your basically in trouble. if you FZ him, well it dont do jack because pets interupting you.

fighting scouts gonna be horrid time for rangers because you basically cant use bow on them at all and your going to get out grinded now with shield block rates.

I am really worried about the proespect of getting outgunned in melee by all other sneaks even rr2-5 ones, to the point where Im considering staying more melee orientated (as ranger is a less effective arrow slinging platform).. atm I really dont know what the best way to go is. mos5+50or47 bow, say 44 poke, 25+ cd 29 sneak. or 42 bow mos4, 50 cd 31 poke 29 sneak (if that fits)... or even lower bow for higher WS wyrd spec. summin like 33 bow mos3-4, 36 poke, 50 cd, 29 sneak (ish)

mos 5 really drains your RA choices but is ofc vely nice in sneak V sneak where jump can be close to ='ing win... but does fook all for you versus visuals.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

They will most likely remove the stealth advantage from Archers (good idea), give Assas IP and defense penetration tools (don't ask me why).

Rangers will be even more useless in melee then but you are welcome to play your Hunter, or make a Scout in melee or stick to those half a dozen Archers camping Crauchon keep and share the RPs .

 

[censi]

well believe it or not I actually chose to play the ranger over the hunter as the hunter isnt really a challenge. plus rr11 = lots of fluff to counter the nerfs, but not sure what fluff to opt for yet.

my rr5 hunter would prawn the living shit out of my rr11 ranger thats for sure though.

 

[Dafft]

On US Classics from my experience:-

I've not lost to a Ranger in melee yet, Shield block rates hurt them loads. Vs Hunters it's 50/50 due to the pet, however if I can get rid of it quick enough the fight evens out.

Archery is really nice but Miss rates suck, up to 30%. DPS has improved drastically with more reliable dmg however it is lower than the previous system but with casting speed influenced by Dex means if I get a stun either through Slam or Beartooth, I get between 3 to 5 Point Blank Shots. FYI I have 42 Archery with Point Blank doing an average of no more than 330 dmg per shot.

Dmg add doesn't work with bows atm but it boosts my melee dmg.

The one thing this patch brought out, from my PoV was the Archer zerg. Often with mos4 I see several grps of 5 or more archers.

Only thing that ppl should watch out for is last attacker. It doesn't work until the 3rd shot by then you may have lost a good chunk of HP. if you're a shield class just charge the archer, Pet class sick pet onto archer & interrupt them. Anyone else should just get the heck outta Dodge.

Interrupting is also a killer to archers unless they have MoC - So far I've not seen one on the classics with MoC on any realm.

Overall, I really enjoy the new system. The ability to outlast & outdamage opponents, esp DW'ers is great.

Rangers, as Censi mentioned, take a HUGE hit in this patch with the loss of Physical Defence & DW/CD/LA being only 1/2 as effective as it was.

 

[eble@work]

Seems 1.88 has finished and they have moved onto the fluff of 1.89.

so miss rates not addressed, on critshot.com mentions MOC not working right for archers.

Some things seem broken, i.e you can target someone in stealth other sneak take aim and they can move out of sight yet your arrow will still fire and knock them out of stealth, so maybe MOS5 is the way to go.

I always fancied a stealthing caster, ah well.

EBle