Archer v Assassin

[Xajorkith]

On the VN boards there's so much whine about Archers "owning" Assassins... yet on our beloved server I don't see much evidence of this...

If I have every single one of my toys up I "may" beat an equal RR assassin... if that occurs I will die next fight anyway.... if assassin catches me and I'm forced into Melee early and no FZ I’m fooked.

I was always under the impression that archers were just assassin fodder (esp. Hunters!).

So do assassins fear archers in a 1 v 1 situation?
Do our assassins really fear MoS 5?
Aren't archers just 4 times an hour uber tough and the rest of the time a pansy?

Or are the yanks just blowing gas and spouting shite as usual

 

[Matmardigan]

On the VN boards there's so much whine about Archers "owning" Assassins... yet on our beloved server I don't see much evidence of this...

If I have every single one of my toys up I "may" beat an equal RR assassin... if that occurs I will die next fight anyway.... if assassin catches me and I'm forced into Melee early and no FZ I’m fooked.

I was always under the impression that archers were just assassin fodder (esp. Hunters!).

So do assassins fear archers in a 1 v 1 situation?
Do our assassins really fear MoS 5?
Aren't archers just 4 times an hour uber tough and the rest of the time a pansy?

Or are the yanks just blowing gas and spouting shite as usual

imo

Archers point of view:

ah look there, a target i can shot at.

Assasins point of view:

Fuck, a leeching cu.nt on my ass again.

 

[Neffneff]

archers CAN provide quite a threat, but 9/10 yes that's only if they have a few toys up.

as part of a duo, or group, archers can be pwn, solo, specced right, AND given the right situation, they can pwn once more, well, i can only vouch for rangers tb, as its the only one i have played.

i found as pierce spec, most archer fights we're short, ending with me above a dead body, but as blades, archers pose a little more threat.

 

[Lethul]

Habemus owns me badly

 

[Punishment]

From what ive seen archers are pretty easy rp in melee anyway ... as imo shooting something thats engaged in combat with one of your realm-mates is not 1v1 its just the archer being retarded ...

As for hunters being weak in melee ... a good Sword specced Norseman hunter can 3 shot an assasin while they are in fz with backstyle ...

Assasin is designed to win ... id imagine that rangers ... aint fought many of em Are abit oped with all the toys up .

 

[Dukat]

(talking from experience before 1.82, havent played in rvr since the patch)

From a melee scout's point of view, I had to have every toy up to stand much of a chance. A single mistake would usually mean I ended up having to /release.

For me there wasnt alot of difference in difficulty between fighting an assassin and fighting a melee specced archer.

Hunters (when you could find one solo) were a real pain in the backside - literally, if they managed to get the backstyle off it tended to make things real nasty, rangers just seemed to be alot of stuns involved with nasty, constant damage. With assassins it was similar to rangers, but ofc the added annoyance of poisons and having to avoid PA at the start.

If an assassin got PA off on me they'd have to make alot of mistakes and I'd have to be fairly lucky to pull the fight back - even with all my toys up.

tbh I cant see how an assassin would have a problem with the typical scout - I would think most are not specced for melee, and aside from FZ (which is pretty easy to avoid) there's not alot for a scout to do in retaliation.

 

[Laws]

As an Inf I have the worse time with Hunters than I do Melee Rangers.

Both can be taken out but WH/SOM/IP and FZ really do turn the tide of a lot of fights in Melee.

MOS5 negates the assasin CS line because you will normally be seen as you approach, it also nagates any possibility of the assasin getting away as he will be found.

Against a melee ranger it is usually a close fight that can go either way.

No matter how well you are doing in a fight with a Hunter if he lands FZ you can start to type release cos you are in for a world of pain. My last fight with a Hunter went horribly wrong he shot me out of stealth using camo then FZ me as I ran in for Melee. I did not get within 100 units him.

 

[Aiteal]

On the VN boards there's so much whine about Archers "owning" Assassins...

VN is full of assassins that think they have a god given right to win a fight with an archer simply because of the class they rolled, including the SM TL.
If an archer specs full melee and equips and RA's his toon for melee, he's no longer an archer.
Granted 12 bow probably gives more damage than it should, but who has ever died to 12 bow?

Looking at Warhammer's proposed idea of open ended skills available to all classes, where you have the chance to evolve your character along the path you want by choosing from skills open to a wider variety of classes is just going to be too much for the sort of assassin whose reasoning can't go beyond
"I'm an assassin, you're an archer, I should always win in melee"
those without the brainpower to factor in templates, sepcs, RA's and the RNG.

Next to the SM TL the biggest moaner on VN is Tracyfearson, who for over a year posted chat logs of rangers beating her followed by nerf crys
He/she failed to mention that his/her toon was running around using str/con charges and no buffs till someone pointed it out

The SB TL is a little more balanced in his opinions, probably because he has a RR6 ranger, and will always be the first to say that, yes, he has beat higher RR assassins when all his toys were up but is fodder for low RR assassins after that, and that his SB is a far better consistant killer with a wider variety of targets than his ranger could ever hope for.

Assassins whinging about melee rangers is 1000 times more fotm than melee rangers will ever be.

 

[illu]

Archers are fine if you can get close up to them to hit them :>

The ones who are a pain are the high MoS4-5 who run away or hide near towers, so guards always kill you :/ Lame way to play, but whatever rocks your boat.

Some real tough melee rangers out there, when they have WH+I can only think it is Malice charge? Can Melee Rangers get Malice? Anyway, they are evil. It's like an Archer version of SoI :>

Most archers that end up in melee range though have a tough time, simply because assassins evade like crazy - so I do feel a bit sorry for them. On the other hand, I get 5000000000 arrows in my butt all the time, so it's also nice to kill them :>

Oli - Illu

 

[Jeriraa]

MoS5 + FZ is almost a 100% guaranteed kill on an assassin once every 15 minutes. But for the rest of the time you are rp-fodder. Only exception are melee rangers like people said already. They are evil.

 

[illu]

MoS5 + FZ is almost a 100% guaranteed kill on an assassin once every 15 minutes. But for the rest of the time you are rp-fodder. Only exception are melee rangers like people said already. They are evil.

Au contraire, MoS5 + FZ = lots of RA points and ML points, which can be countered by Malice2 or Health Potion or Health Totem.
/stick /run and the Archer is in trouble.

The tough buggers are the ones that shoot you out of stealth (Mos5) at that place where you just don't know whether to run AT them or run FROM them In that moments hesitation, you get a ton of arrows in your butt, and if you run TO them, you can expect a FZ journey, and if you run AWAY, you end up with even more arrows in you, and if you vanish, MoS5 will find you :/

It is basically down to who the enemy is, and what timers you and they have up.

Oli - Illu

 

[Elrandhir]

From what ive seen archers are pretty easy rp in melee anyway ... as imo shooting something thats engaged in combat with one of your realm-mates is not 1v1 its just the archer being retarded ...

Not really, if an Archer is Bowspecced this is what he should do, well I would rather shoot at mages etc, but what do you think he should do, anyone playing an Bowspecced class and going melee has to be an fool, and anyone suggesting this just do so to win really as it's as dumn as it can be.

Not retarded, playing the class as it fits his spec most, as anyone would do.
And there is nothing retarded with shooting anything already engaged in 1 vs 1 or whatever, once again this is something those trying to enforce fair fights as they say, well there aint really any fair fights, if the classes aint same RR yadajada etc.

Leaving a 1 vs 1 because someone wished so is another thing, but if someone told me to stopp adding in a rude manner or so, I would just laugh at him tbh.

Clueless post tbh, saying anyone playing so or so is retarded that really annoyes me, I can admit if several stealthers or whatever kill off a soloer it can be abit annoying, but still noone that can say sh*t, as if they want to play like that it's still their choice, skillless way of playing I would agree to that, but still up to 1 and all.

 

[Puppet]

I do quite oki on my ranger (Spinesprout). Lastnight I lost one or two fights with an assassin, especially remember one with Battleboobs where I got cocky, and got rolled.

Also must admit I saw quite abit of clueless newbs on the SB. Now the SB got some serious love + with recent changes to brittleguards + 2H-perfs, u see quite a few FOTM-players.

A fight on level, eg. with a good assassin around my RR (9+) means I have to seriously dump on them to stand a chance. And ofcourse with all the adding and leeching, 1vs1 performance becomes less important, more important on which side the add(s) are then anything else

 

[Ogen]

On the VN boards there's so much whine about Archers "owning" Assassins... yet on our beloved server I don't see much evidence of this...

If I have every single one of my toys up I "may" beat an equal RR assassin... if that occurs I will die next fight anyway.... if assassin catches me and I'm forced into Melee early and no FZ I’m fooked.

I was always under the impression that archers were just assassin fodder (esp. Hunters!).

So do assassins fear archers in a 1 v 1 situation?
Do our assassins really fear MoS 5?
Aren't archers just 4 times an hour uber tough and the rest of the time a pansy?

Or are the yanks just blowing gas and spouting shite as usual

Try making a template using sun spear, and ofc you have to have somewhat a spear spec. Allmoust every stealth class got shit energy resists, so your gonna cut through them like a warm knife in butter.

 

[Ogen]

Not really, if an Archer is Bowspecced this is what he should do, well I would rather shoot at mages etc, but what do you think he should do, anyone playing an Bowspecced class and going melee has to be an fool, and anyone suggesting this just do so to win really as it's as dumn as it can be.

Not retarded, playing the class as it fits his spec most, as anyone would do.
And there is nothing retarded with shooting anything already engaged in 1 vs 1 or whatever, once again this is something those trying to enforce fair fights as they say, well there aint really any fair fights, if the classes aint same RR yadajada etc.

Leaving a 1 vs 1 because someone wished so is another thing, but if someone told me to stopp adding in a rude manner or so, I would just laugh at him tbh.

Clueless post tbh, saying anyone playing so or so is retarded that really annoyes me, I can admit if several stealthers or whatever kill off a soloer it can be abit annoying, but still noone that can say sh*t, as if they want to play like that it's still their choice, skillless way of playing I would agree to that, but still up to 1 and all.

I can crit people for 600+ with 30 bow spec on my ranger. Rest goes in melee wich leaves you with a fairly nice wyrd spec. Id say you dont have a choise since you will meet lots of other stealthers and by the time you see them, you wont have time to use your bow at all. So with 45 or 50 bow your fucked.

 

[Kaun_IA]

i have tryd 3 types of ranger speccs so far. bow, mixxed and melee.

whit bow spec u usually try and hit visuals...

whit mixxed specc u usually kinda suck at evrything... ofc if u dont have a hell of a expencive temp whit alot of utill u can be very deadly in eny situation

melee specced u dont wanna fight casters often. couse u cant deal the same dmg as assasins can for them. all so u dont have a good opener couse ur first hit will be negated by lade turn. good fights are agains assasins and melee types.

atm im full melee specc on my ranger. becouse i like to fight 1vs1 whit assasins.
hard fights are agains infs... they still seem stronger to me then SBs... mybe becouse theyr armor isnt slash weak.

i personally think out of 3 archer classes rangers are the best in melee, closely followed by melee hunters and then scouts far far behind. (thats only in melee, melee specced)

atm seriously thinking going back mixxed specc and useing bow again, alltho i know i can kill stuff 1vs1 more whit current specc.

 

[Dorimor1]

Both are adding, useless, unskilled monkeys who leach and emote all the time, delete the classes and make everyone roll a proper char.

 

[xxManiacxx]

they should take back maximum 25 weapon specc on archers again

 

[Xajorkith]

Try making a template using sun spear, and ofc you have to have somewhat a spear spec.

lol "teaching grandma to suck eggs".
I'm R7L5 fully ToA'd and carry sun weapons...

The problem for a Hunter is actually trying to hit an evade seven class whilst the hunter is on Evade 1.5 due to DW bonus over 2h.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Just for Rangers and Scouts, then. Hunters never had the 25 points limit on melee.

 

[Urgluf]

From my own experience with my ranger (RR5 + 50 CD / blade spec) I won most 1vs1 fights vs shadowblades (if purge was up).. Infils we're harder but doable.... with some side strafing :O

but I doubt scouts or hunters do that well vs assasins.. no dw etc

 

[Alyssania]

I remember winning once against about rr3 sb in melee when I still had high melee scout spec. Usually just enemy evades 7 time and beat me 100% - 0% in melee... So to all wondering why scouts add and run stop running at em and stand still so we can shoot you to death...

 

[Ogen]

lol "teaching grandma to suck eggs".
I'm R7L5 fully ToA'd and carry sun weapons...

The problem for a Hunter is actually trying to hit an evade seven class whilst the hunter is on Evade 1.5 due to DW bonus over 2h.

The nasty melee hunters ive seen allways either fz´d people to get back pos in. Or they would abuse run through to land it. But ive never played a hunter, so i guess i dont know alot about that evade problem.

 

[Simba]

I can't beat archers in 1v1. i can beat low rrs, but i can't do anything against ip2+fz+purge. and all archers running with that trio so pointless to try even. Fz should be purgeable as dragonfang purgeable too.

 

[xxManiacxx]

Just for Rangers and Scouts, then. Hunters never had the 25 points limit on melee.

True. Hunters "were" the melee archer

 

[Phantomby]

I always thought this debate was down to growth rates of the styles being used.

My NS has high CS and deals lots of damage fast, this is what my class is designed to do. Ranger i see outlasting opponents with IP, FZ, WH, Malice, so the assassin eats through their hp while they steadily chip away.

This usually means that archer classes try to outlast assassin classes with use of RA's and timers so they are very tough every 15 mins, but with them down they are far less capable of outlasting my damage output.

Scouts slam, once thats purged they are fodder, Hunter fights can swing either way, if i evade they have a hard time, if they land their rear style they cause immense damage and it can turn the tide. Rangers do better in melee cus if their dual wield (obv).

yeah archers can negate our opening attacks with high mos but tbh if they are trying to compete as a melee stealther they need quite a few rr's so they can amass their toys to keep them alive long enough to win. This is how ive always seen it.

Phant - 50 NS
Blinx - 50 Ranger

 

[Puppet]

I can't beat archers in 1v1. i can beat low rrs, but i can't do anything against ip2+fz+purge. and all archers running with that trio so pointless to try even. Fz should be purgeable as dragonfang purgeable too.

FZ has a 15 mins recast timer, Dragonfang has no reuse timer.

If FZ is made purgeable, they better lower the recast-timer aswell as making it so its impossible to 'miss' it on the enemy you got targetted.

Reducing max. weaponspec for archers would be pretty stupid, bow would need a tremendous boost to make that 'fair'.

Dont forget that bow-dps is already so shitty low, that even with 45+19 bow I wasnt even near doing REALLY good damage. Now I have 1+8 bow, and hit for 150~ dmg regular shots on chain. With 45+19 I was doing 300~ dmg regular shots, but bow is soooo slow its simply too low increase to make it worthwhile to spec (for me). Increase bow, and I mean seriously... increase it by ALOT and then we can see. For now, I think melee-archers should be a viable spec option, simply because bow is severly lacking.

 

[Elrandhir]

they should take back maximum 25 weapon specc on archers again

heh I woulden mind atall tbh, if they gave the Bow parth a good boost.

 

[xxManiacxx]

Essence flare is resitable and purgable and on 30min timer....

 

[bigchief]

FZ has a 15 mins recast timer, Dragonfang has no reuse timer.

If FZ is made purgeable, they better lower the recast-timer aswell as making it so its impossible to 'miss' it on the enemy you got targetted.

Reducing max. weaponspec for archers would be pretty stupid, bow would need a tremendous boost to make that 'fair'.

Dont forget that bow-dps is already so shitty low, that even with 45+19 bow I wasnt even near doing REALLY good damage. Now I have 1+8 bow, and hit for 150~ dmg regular shots on chain. With 45+19 I was doing 300~ dmg regular shots, but bow is soooo slow its simply too low increase to make it worthwhile to spec (for me). Increase bow, and I mean seriously... increase it by ALOT and then we can see. For now, I think melee-archers should be a viable spec option, simply because bow is severly lacking.

i dont think box is particularly gimped, given the trend that if ones shooting you 3-4 will be, if theyre doing 700+ a shot it'd be a total and utter joke. Servers would be utterly flooded by small archer groups.

Regarding fighting hunters/rangers. If its not rr8+ it needs a serious dump to beat me 1v1, talking ip+fz+purge+rr5+charges+... quite often. If it is rr8-9 then it also hits hard, so just one or two abilities may be enough to win.

Last fight i lost 1v1 to a ranger was vs some rr6, he used literally everything and only just won. Last fight vs a hunter i lost, i got jumped -> insta stunned, -> insta fz'd on purge with battler charge. rr8 hunter tho so really hurt in melee. Now if i'd had the jump in those 2 fights, since i'm 69cs, who's to say i wouldnt have won regardless?

But at the same time I have to argue that I cannot deal 150-300dmg every 2 seconds at 1500+range in addition to doing high melee damage. They can. I think its fairly balanced really. Its annoying to lose to a total ra/ml dump, but I know I can be back to that place in 5minutes, they're without anything for the next 15.

Don't get me started on people that hide in keeps/towers when timers are down tho