AoM and EM in 1.65+

[[NO]Magmatic]

If your looking at the effect of AOM, you should definitly look at the effect it has when wearing all items + buffs, as that is the in-game situation... And look at the damage done to you, not at the point where aom gets into play...

Because if you have 0% from items and buffs, then end result on 100 damage is still going to be 3% ... Pre-patch and post-patch...

 

[Pin]

Well looking at 'just' baod is useless now isnt it? You'd have to look at full resists pre-1.65 and post 1.65...

So taking my resists, and thinking (not sure) that baod gives 35% extra resists... In 1.65 pop'ing baod with 16% from buffs, and 1 level of aom gives you 63% 'resist' (reduction), while before 1.65 it would have been 90%...

As far as I know the amount of resist that BAoD adds is not changed in 1.65, just the way its used in the end-damage calculation is...

If you take the above example, even though baod 'is' 35%, it only actually gives 20% reduction due to its place in the calculation...

('damage' - <Racial + Item resists + buffs>) - <RA resists> = end 'damage'
(damage can be time of mez-etc too)

BAoD (unlike pre-patch) doesnt give an effective 35% anymore...

<effect from BAoD> = 1 - (<damage with BAoD>/<damage without BAoD>)

Using your numbers (26+16, AoM1)

1.63- : <effect from BAoD> = 1 - (0.2 / 0.55) = 0.636 = 63.6% reduction caused by BAoD.
1.65+ : <effect from BAoD> = 1 - (0.3596 / 0.5626) = 0.3608 = 36.1% reduction caused by BAoD (it's over 35% due to the effect of being additive with AoM).

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So... It means if you (and your group) have high base resists and resist buffs, BAoD is no longer a godmode RA (vs magic).

 

[Trubble]

Why?

The question you want to answer is:
What effect does AoM have?

For that you need to look at purely the effect of adding AoM, not the effect of adding items+buffs+AoM as you're never going to be running around the frontiers naked.

AoM now makes 3% difference per level on spell effects, instead of the 4-7% before.

AoM1 was 3% before patch, no matter what other resists you had.

With your calculation you show the difference of AoM before and now. Its misleading in explaining its effects in practice now.

AoM will maximum give you 3% resist per level now, and this number will degrade as you get higher base resists (items,buffs,racial bonuses).

For an average gamer who is not interested in calculating the effects in detail, a good rule of thump is saying that AoM is now giving around 2% per level on average.

 

[Pin]

AoM1 was 3% before patch, no matter what other resists you had.

AoM1 added 3% to your total level of resists before. That does not mean that it gave 3% reduction to spell damage or CC - which is the real number you are interested in.

With your calculation you show the difference of AoM before and now. Its misleading in explaining its effects in practice now.

No, with my calculation I gave the effect that AoM has. It's misleading to view it as 3%, because it never gave the 3% damage reduction per level unless you had no items, buffs or racial bonuses.

AoM will maximum give you 3% resist per level now, and this number will degrade as you get higher base resists (items,buffs,racial bonuses).

AoM will ALWAYS give 3% effect per level now. It was the previous patches where it would give a variable effect depending on how much other gumph you had.

For an average gamer who is not interested in calculating the effects in detail, a good rule of thump is saying that AoM is now giving around 2% per level on average.

AoM gives 3% per level reduction to spell damage and CC after 1.65.

For an average gamer who is not interested in calculating the effects in detail: Buy AoM1 if you want to take 3% less spell damage, or be CCd for 3% less time.

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

Your giving the wrong impression if you say it effects the duration of spells for 3% or reduces damage by 3%, as it doesnt...

We have John Do, he has 26% resist, 8% from buffs, and has AoM level 2...

He gets mezzed (single target) by a spell that lasts 60 seconds:
1.63 : 60 - (26+8+6 %) == 36s
1.65 : (60 - (26+8 %)) - 6% == 38s

The effect that 6% from AoM had pre 1.65 was 3.6s for that person (6%), the effect that AoM has for this person now 2.4s for that person (4%)...

How is this a decrease of 3% per AoM level in 1.65?

The *only* time, with the new patch, that AoM is effectively 3% is when the person has 0% resist from items/buffs/racial... Casual gamer or not, this does not change...

If you look half-way the calculation, then it does give 3% reduction AFTER normal resists, and then the old AoM does indeed give more then 3%, but this is not the effective reduction... Cause it only has 4% reduction on the 60s mez...

 

[Trubble]

For an average gamer who is not interested in calculating the effects in detail: Buy AoM1 if you want to take 3% less spell damage, or be CCd for 3% less time.

Example:

Spell hits for 500 damage on you. (could also be CC time, but lets do it with damage).

You have 26+16% base resist and have AoM1.

Pre patch:

Base resists : 26+16 = 42%
AoM1 resists: 3%
Total resists: 42+3 = 45%.
45% of 500 is 225.

Resulting damage value: 275 (-225)
Of the 225, AoM1 is responsible 15, which is 3% of 500.

Post patch:

Base resists: 26+16 = 42%
AoM1 resists: 3%
Total resists: 42% applied first, 3% applied after that
42% of 500 is 210. 3% of 210 is 9, total resisted damage: 219.

Resulting damage value: 281 (-219)
Of the 219, AoM1 is responsible 9, which is 1,8% of 500.

Its very clear that AoM1 have less than 3% effect if you have any base resists (itemresists,buffs,racialresists).

 

[Pin]

Okay... 1 last time...

Your giving the wrong impression if you say it effects the duration of spells for 3% or reduces damage by 3%, as it doesnt...

We have John Do, he has 26% resist, 8% from buffs, and has AoM level 2...

He gets mezzed (single target) by a spell that lasts 60 seconds:
1.63 : 60 - (26+8+6 %) == 36s
1.65 : (60 - (26+8 %)) - 6% == 38s

The effect that 6% from AoM had pre 1.65 was 3.6s for that person (6%), the effect that AoM has for this person now 2.4s for that person (4%)...

How is this a decrease of 3% per AoM level in 1.65?

The *only* time, with the new patch, that AoM is effectively 3% is when the person has 0% resist from items/buffs/racial... Casual gamer or not, this does not change...

If you look half-way the calculation, then it does give 3% reduction AFTER normal resists, and then the old AoM does indeed give more then 3%, but this is not the effective reduction... Cause it only has 4% reduction on the 60s mez...

Servers up.
You have no AoM.
You go out in your group with 26+8% body resist and get hit with a 60s mezz.
This mezz lasts 39.6sec on you.

Nobody cares that the mezz had a 60s delve because it only lasts 39.6sec.


So, you go buy AoM1.

You go out in your group with 26+8% + 3% body resist and get hit with a 60s mezz.
This mezz lasts 38.4sec on you.

You have reduced the time that you spent mezzed by 3% by buying AoM1 (1.2/39.6).
Ergo, AoM reduces duration of CC by 3% per level.


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Example:

Spell hits for 500 damage on you. (could also be CC time, but lets do it with damage).

You have 26+16% base resist and have AoM1.

Pre patch:

Base resists : 26+16 = 42%
AoM1 resists: 3%
Total resists: 42+3 = 45%.
45% of 500 is 225.

Resulting damage value: 275 (-225)
Of the 225, AoM1 is responsible 15, which is 3% of 500.

Post patch:

Base resists: 26+16 = 42%
AoM1 resists: 3%
Total resists: 42% applied first, 3% applied after that
42% of 500 is 210. 3% of 210 is 9, total resisted damage: 219.

Resulting damage value: 281 (-219)
Of the 219, AoM1 is responsible 9, which is 1,8% of 500.

Its very clear that AoM1 have less than 3% effect if you have any base resists (itemresists,buffs,racialresists).

Servers up.
You have no AoM.
You go out in your group with 26+16% energy resist and get hit with by a pbae spell. This would have hit you for 500 damage, but you have some resist.
So it hits you for 290.


Nobody cares that the pbae was originally 500, because it only hit you for 290.


So, you go buy AoM1.

You go out in your group with 26+16% + 3% energy resist and get hit with by a pbae spell. This would have hit you for 500 damage, but you have some resist.
So it hits you for 281.

You have reduced the damage that you took by 3% by buying AoM1 (9/290).
Ergo, AoM reduces spell damage by 3% per level.


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Stop comparing the amount subtracted to the original delve of the spell. Nobody cares that it's a 60sec mezz or a 500 damage nuke because that is NOT THE BASELINE.

The baseline of comparison is how long you are mezzed, or how much you are hit for without AoM, but with item+buff resists as these are held constant before and after the purchase of the realm ability.

 

[stighelmer]

You gotta love Pin, he knows his shit

 

[Bonehead]

Example:

Spell hits for 500 damage on you. (could also be CC time, but lets do it with damage).

You have 26+16% base resist and have AoM1.

Pre patch:

Base resists : 26+16 = 42%
AoM1 resists: 3%
Total resists: 42+3 = 45%.
45% of 500 is 225.

Resulting damage value: 275 (-225)
Of the 225, AoM1 is responsible 15, which is 3% of 500.

Post patch:

Base resists: 26+16 = 42%
AoM1 resists: 3%
Total resists: 42% applied first, 3% applied after that
42% of 500 is 210. 3% of 210 is 9, total resisted damage: 219.

Resulting damage value: 281 (-219)
Of the 219, AoM1 is responsible 9, which is 1,8% of 500.

Its very clear that AoM1 have less than 3% effect if you have any base resists (itemresists,buffs,racialresists).

omg?! What is this?!

Go play daoc. Who cares about numbers? I mean .. common!!
Few percent doesnt mean shit when alb zerg approaching anyways!

 

[Bracken]

I think Pin won :touch:

 

[Trubble]

Stop comparing the amount subtracted to the original delve of the spell. Nobody cares that it's a 60sec mezz or a 500 damage nuke because that is NOT THE BASELINE.

The baseline of comparison is how long you are mezzed, or how much you are hit for without AoM, but with item+buff resists as these are held constant before and after the purchase of the realm ability.

Since you insists.

You have to examine your resists against the base/delve value. It is not enough to just claim something is 3% after some other resists, without examining these other resists, and how it effects the efficiency of the 3%. If you plan to run around with 50% base resists you will get less out of buying AoM1 than if you plan to solo around with just item resits.

Its really that simple.

 

[Pin]

Since you insists.

You have to examine your resists against the base/delve value. It is not enough to just claim something is 3% after some other resists, without examining these other resists, and how it effects the efficiency of the 3%. If you plan to run around with 50% base resists you will get less out of buying AoM1 than if you plan to solo around with just item resits.

Its really that simple.

3%

just like determination is 15% per level.

 

[Fluid]

pin makes me get a headache :< he's like the yoda of daoc, knows it all but talks in riddles

 

[Konah]

the numbers don't matter all that much, all u need to know is its roughly half as effective as it was and hence roughly half the value it was.

considering it reduces dmg and cc duration i think its still worth 1point and no more, on a det tank anyways.

 

[Divinia]

Damn.. maths ~~