News Anyone with Virgin Media?

[rynnor]

Virgin Media to Begin Throttling BitTorrent Next Summer - Torrent Finder Forums

Application based throttling - basically torrents will become un-usable if this goes ahead (10kbps anyone?).

Virgin Media seem to be the worst ISP out there now - they are the most in bed with the copyright holders and now this.

The big question is why would anyone need a 50Mb connection with them since without torrents what will they do with it?

It wouldnt suprise me to see them blocking the bbc Iplayer and other streaming next - anything that hogs bandwidth?

 

[Mabs]

there is a counter argument that if you are stupid enough to still be using it after all this time, you get whats coming to you ?

 

[rynnor]

there is a counter argument that if you are stupid enough to still be using it after all this time, you get whats coming to you ?

I assume you mean bittorrent - you dont think they might throttle the other ones too then?

 

[Edmond]

ok, call me a dumbass, i still use torrents thrugh uTorrent, with peer gaurdian running with it. What should i be using??

I'm with BT not VM btw

 

[Mabs]

I assume you mean bittorrent - you dont think they might throttle the other ones too then?

no i mean VIRGIN

 

[Zenith.UK]

Virgin Media to Begin Throttling BitTorrent Next Summer - Torrent Finder Forums

Application based throttling - basically torrents will become un-usable if this goes ahead (10kbps anyone?).

<snip>

It wouldnt suprise me to see them blocking the bbc Iplayer and other streaming next - anything that hogs bandwidth?

There are alternatives to torrents but I'm not going to talk about them as I could get into trouble with the mods.

BBC Iplayer bandwidth is rocketing up according to a friend who works in an ISP. During the Olympic games in the summer, almost a quarter of all the data the ISP transferred during the day was related to Iplayer. There is talk amongst the ISPs of getting the BBC to colo stream servers in their central networks to reduce the transit bandwidth used.
BBC iPlayer upgrade prompts new ISP complaints ? The Register

There is also talk of charging a premium for "good" access to Iplayer as the bandwidth charges aren't being paid by the BBC.
iPlayer chief pushes tiered charging for ISPs ? The Register

 

[RandomBastard]

There is also talk of charging a premium for "good" access to Iplayer as the bandwidth charges aren't being paid by the BBC.
iPlayer chief pushes tiered charging for ISPs ? The Register

The BBC will be paying the cost of there peering bandwidth and the ISPS are already charging customers for their bandwidth, so ISPS have no rights to expect either the bbc or the consumer to pay twice for that bandwidth. IMO ISPs are money grabbing fucktards who need to learn that they can't keep overselling capacity.

 

[Tom]

Good. I've been looking for a reason to ditch Virgin for some time. Only the loss of my email address bothers me.

Their on-demand service is shite too. You're watching half a series in the menu, then you wait for the next half...and wait...and wait......and then the entire series disappears, leaving you with nothing.

They're a load of wankers who aren't in favour of net-neutrality. Fuck them.

 

[bigbb]

Unfortunately, BT want to charge £125 to setup installation in my place, otherwise I would've left Virgin long ago. They're shocking, and their Customer Service department is, to coin an old and overused arguement/problem; shit.

I see no way out. To give an example; last year speed ground to a crawl and once I got hold of someone who knew what was going on (forcing to be fed back to the UK 2nd line team) they said they were suffering from a lack of capacity inherited from NTL. Recent advertising campaigns had a put a strain on the existing network and they were resolving it within a month.

That month went and I did eventually get compensation by moaning, constantly. Here we are 12months later and having a similar problem I rung them and after pushing found out they're suffering from a lack of capacity in the local area and they're hoping to resolve it by the end of Jan. I didn't shy away from presenting my opinion on the forethought of whoever implemented the previous extension to capacity. But, frankly... they couldn't and wouldn't do anything except give me a couple of quid and apologise.

I asked they pass thoughts to someone who cares. But, he didn't seem too convinced anyone would actually change for the future.

 

[GReaper]

Unfortunately, BT want to charge £125 to setup installation in my place, otherwise I would've left Virgin long ago. They're shocking, and their Customer Service department is, to coin an old and overused arguement/problem; shit.

BT have been offering reduced installation costs for the past year or more. The most recent one was free installation, as long as you go on an 18 month contract and make 30 calls per quarter (or 10 calls a month if you do monthly billing). Unfortunately the last offer seems to have expired and I can't see any new ones.

We moved off Virgin earlier this year and so far things are great. Phone calls are generally cheaper with BT and are even cheaper with override providers such as 18185. Virgin has been ripping off people with high phone prices for a long time, they bundle it with TV/broadband and then rip you off with the call charges. Be* gives us 18-19Mbit for far less than Virgin did 4Mbit (now 10Mbit) and doesn't do any traffic shaping bollocks.

It's a shame really, blueyonder was a great ISP - it only took them a year under the Virgin brand to ruin the entire thing.

 

[Sparx]

i'm with Virgin on a 20meg line and i havent had any problems with them, couple years ago when i had to deal with the customer services i could have killed myself, but connection wise i've never had less than 16 meg on my 20 meg line. I can download at over 1meg a second after midnight. I'm happy with that

 

[Macey]

Ive been with Virgin for about 4 years now and dont really have much to complain about. I had lots of problems when I first moved into this flat with constant connection dropping, and at first their customer service left a lot to be desired. But after about 4 phone calls and 2 engineer visits I managed to get somewhere, after about a month I had the problem fixed, 2 months free subscription, which actually ran to 3 months for some reason, and Ive not had a single problem since. I prefer to the tv package to Sky, I find it far more user friendly and accessable, and the on-demand service is far superior to anything sky can offer.

The bit-torrent thing is a tad intrusive, but as I dont download things from them anymore it isnt something which upsets me majorly.

 

[Dudley52]

I really think Virgin must be better than the appalling Orange.

I signed up to a contract about a year ago, been trying to cancel since, but they just won't give me my MAC code without paying some stupid £200 cancellation fee. I'm stuck on 512k with them, they won't upgrade it, when I call customer services its some call centre in India, they can't understand anything. Can't wait till this subscription is over then i'm going with be.

 

[Aada]

I have been with Virgin since the NTL days sure their customer service aint the best mainly in my opinion because they have too many people from India on their phones.

Their broadband is quality i have never had a problem with it except when they used to take it down for maintenance in the NTL days.

The people moaning are dirty downloaders and are very angry they won't be getting their freebies quite so fast anymore

:kissit:

 

[Calaen]

No problems at all with Virgin, been with them for yonks!!!!

 

[Tom]

The people moaning are dirty downloaders and are very angry they won't be getting their freebies quite so fast anymore

:kissit:

Of course I'm angry. I pay to be supplied with an internet connection. What I don't expect is for that company to decide what I can and cannot use that connection for.

Linux is distributed over torrents, as are the iPlayer's downloadable programmes. Virgin is essentially admitting that they're unwilling to invest in their network to supply a reliable service.

 

[Aada]

Of course I'm angry. I pay to be supplied with an internet connection. What I don't expect is for that company to decide what I can and cannot use that connection for.

Linux is distributed over torrents, as are the iPlayer's downloadable programmes. Virgin is essentially admitting that they're unwilling to invest in their network to supply a reliable service.

True, but we all know Torrents mainly supply pirated games/films to the people who download 50gigs of the stuff every week.

Hell there is a guy where i work who openly admits to downloading game after game after game and selling them off.

Fucking can't stand em tbh.

 

[DaGaffer]

True, but we all know Torrents mainly supply pirated games/films to the people who download 50gigs of the stuff every week.

Hell there is a guy where i work who openly admits to downloading game after game after game and selling them off.

Fucking can't stand em tbh.

Yes, but you wouldn't turn a motorway into a single carriageway because people were speeding on it would you? (Actually, scratch that, looking at the M1 roadworks NuLab have done just that).

Anyway, as Tom says, this has nothing to do with the morality of downloading and everything to do with Virgin (and most other UK ISPs) over-promising in their marketing and under-delivering on their networks.

 

[Bob007]

Been with virgin (Nynex, NTL) for close on 12 years. I don't download to much but i can hammer it if i need disc images for reinstalls and such like. Linux, Windows, even been known to warez a mac os once or twice for a repair. Software updates/reinstalls. So i can and do (if am busy) hit traffic shaping caps. I will use torrents, usenet, ftp and anyother form of downloading just to grab what i need as fast as posible to ship the customer out of my life and the cash in my bank.

This month i will be leaving VM for BT and a new BB supplier. I can even save myself £20 a month by doing this.

/wave Virgin Media

 

[SawTooTH]

I have been with NTL (VM) since BT screwed me over an ADSL line (when they first came out). I've been fairly happy except when I was upgraded from 10MB to 20Mb I didnt see an improvement (probably due to my modem being so old) so I downgraded back down to 10Mb.

Ive noticed that my line does slow down more these days usually at peak times so Ive moved downloading anything thats sizable to early morning/overnight.

A lot of games come in at >1Gb these days so if Im reinstalling using Steam or the EA downloader it can take quite a while.

 

[Tom]

True, but we all know Torrents mainly supply pirated games/films to the people who download 50gigs of the stuff every week.

Hell there is a guy where i work who openly admits to downloading game after game after game and selling them off.

Fucking can't stand em tbh.

Who cares? If I pay for a 20MB connection, I expect to have that ability 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If theres a problem with piracy, let the police deal with it - it is none of Virgin's business. If torrent users are causing problems for other people, that isn't the fault of the torrent user - its the fault of VM for not being able to supply the service they said they would.

I wonder what would happen if all VM customers suddenly started using their online service, all day. I wonder what the bandwidth is there? Would VM suddenly impose restrictions on the amount of programming you could watch each day?

Don't even get me started on their views of net-neutrality.

 

[Aada]

Who cares? If I pay for a 20MB connection, I expect to have that ability 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If theres a problem with piracy, let the police deal with it - it is none of Virgin's business. If torrent users are causing problems for other people, that isn't the fault of the torrent user - its the fault of VM for not being able to supply the service they said they would.

I wonder what would happen if all VM customers suddenly started using their online service, all day. I wonder what the bandwidth is there? Would VM suddenly impose restrictions on the amount of programming you could watch each day?

Don't even get me started on their views of net-neutrality.

Yeah true i get a maximum of 18mb on my 20mb line.

 

[ford prefect]

When virgin took over from NTL in my father-in-law's area, they duplicated his account and started billing him for two accounts, he told his bank to stop paying one of the accounts, and depsite many many phone calls it escalated to the point where debt collection agencies where informed. Although it's sorted now, it took nearly 16 months to get there, and he is still in the process of getting his credit record ammended.

 

[Macey]

Who cares? If I pay for a 20MB connection, I expect to have that ability 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If theres a problem with piracy, let the police deal with it - it is none of Virgin's business. If torrent users are causing problems for other people, that isn't the fault of the torrent user - its the fault of VM for not being able to supply the service they said they would.

I wonder what would happen if all VM customers suddenly started using their online service, all day. I wonder what the bandwidth is there? Would VM suddenly impose restrictions on the amount of programming you could watch each day?

Don't even get me started on their views of net-neutrality.

I have to say that I find the concept that internet piracy none of the ISP's business somewhat short sighted. ISPs are under constant pressure from anti-piracy types to enforce higher protection so it seems to me that they have to be seen to do something about it or their company will be seen as sympathetic to people who wish to commit fraud and theft.

Not saying that I agree with the interference as I see it as a massive invasion of privacy. But from a business point of view I dont see how you can say its none of their business.

Its not really any different from a company like GAME refusing returns on any product which has been opened, they have to do something to ensure that scabs arent simply buying games, cracking the CD keys and then returning them to do the same thing again on another title. Distributors have to ensure that they keep other business industries happy, there isnt that much difference between an ISP and a highstreet chain in my view when it comes to this.

 

[Scouse]

VM suck donkey balls. End of. (Yep, I'm still with 'em - at least till the summer).

Anyone who brings up the "piracy" stick to attempt to justify VM's pathetic over-selling is a n00bie loser.

 

[`mongoose]

firstlt, I hate NTL. I wouldn't touch Virgin with a barge pole.

I think if ISP's were to actually allow for everyone using their max connection 100% of the time our bills would double, probably triple.

Gamers and downloaders have been using the spare capacity provided by joe bloggs and his surfing/emailling for years. Web 2.0 and the advent of media rich web surfing is really hitting all ISP capacity which is why everyone is getting twitchy.

Now we can all sit here, eat lentils and complain about how ISP's make money for nothing but unless you guys want to go into business as an ISP the only person likely to foot the bill is you.

It's like sky etc. All this bullshit the EU have brought in about not allowing exclusive deals will actually save me money - simply because I can't justify spending nigh on £40 a month for sky sports anymore. Not now they haven't got ALL the rugby, ALL the football etc etc.

It's not made things better for me - it's made things worse. The only good thing is that I will shortly be £40 a month better off.

I am a bit of a leftie but I think ISP's have a valid point. I love my *acquired* software and music but these days it's very risky and generally speaking not worth the hassle. Not when 90% of the time the music or software I downloaded was fringe stuff that I never bother installing or listening too anyways.

I realise some people will be hit by this and it's a pita. Tbh I'd pay the install charges to avoid being with NTL/Virgin. They pissed me off for about 6 months 4 years ago and I would never go back.

M

 

[Macey]

The way most media and games are going these days anyway, my old justification of "I cant afford to buy DvD's/ CD's" just doesnt fly. Between play.com, hmv and zavvi these days you can get 10 or more dvds for about £50, theres no real reason to download this stuff anymore imo.

 

[Wij]

Zavvi ?

 

[nath]

Its not really any different from a company like GAME refusing returns on any product which has been opened, they have to do something to ensure that scabs arent simply buying games, cracking the CD keys and then returning them to do the same thing again on another title. Distributors have to ensure that they keep other business industries happy, there isnt that much difference between an ISP and a highstreet chain in my view when it comes to this.

I think it's completely different. They don't go after petrol stations for people who use the petrol to break the speed limit. If I phone up my mate and arrange to go round his and copy a load of his CD's, I'm not going to have the record industry coming at me via BT. The internet should be a utility like all others coming in to your house - a pipe, nothing more. That's when it comes to monitoring etc. When it comes to fair usage (i.e. heavy downloading) I think it's fair that heavy downloaders pay more for the service.

 

[Scouse]

The way most media and games are going these days anyway, my old justification of "I cant afford to buy DvD's/ CD's" just doesnt fly. Between play.com, hmv and zavvi these days you can get 10 or more dvds for about £50, theres no real reason to download this stuff anymore imo.

Hi, my name's Macey and I'm fucking stuffed to the teeth with cash, so go out and buy everything you want, never download it. Even if you've other reasons to download than "cost" - they're not important to me so they shouldn't be to you either...

I don't care if companies lie to get money, but I do care if a single real person is slightly dodgy. Always remember: corporate theft is the way of things and is good and right, doing things on a small scale is bad and wrong - that's why we call one-man bands "Pirates" and corporate theft "Business"