Any GM who can throw some light on this?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Aonmeamna

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
107
If GOA controled it, and all trades had to be through them to work, it may benefit the game, by bringing more players in. You may get some pure fps players that just buy an account for RvR.

GOA gets the subscription and the software sales regardless. Forcing character renaming is a good idea. GOA could even take a cut for the service.
 

Zenythe

[GOA] English Servers GM
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
332
Lethul said:
i think its time to start a Requiel_bs.txt, its startign to get a lot of it now :cheers:


And I don't spose you possibly stopped to think that what has been posted may not be the whole story about what happened with the account? If an account gets reported to us more than once for 'hacking' and we track account info sharing on it or trading on it the account is marked to watch basicly... if it happens yet again it gets terminated.

Additionally Req is telling you the way things are generally to work, however the accounts department (which isn't us) have parameters they work within as well if there are outstanding issues they do have the remit to terminate accounts without requesting more info.
 

Config

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
90
Aonmeamna said:
If GOA controled it, and all trades had to be through them to work, it may benefit the game, by bringing more players in. You may get some pure fps players that just buy an account for RvR.

GOA gets the subscription and the software sales regardless. Forcing character renaming is a good idea. GOA could even take a cut for the service.


Whats the point in playing this game if you can buy a RR5+ char with a lot of artis on it? Then they could just give out artis for free and make a /level 50 command aswell and give you free RRs, how fun would that be tbh?
 

Belomar

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,107
Jika said:
haha, such bs .. u never asked me to prove if Freddina was my acc .. caus I do have all cdkeys and stuff u need .. u just perma banned it .. 10 pts to goa
HAHAHAHAHA! Five star thread! Go go, Requiel! :D
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
Zenythe said:
And I don't spose you possibly stopped to think that what has been posted may not be the whole story about what happened with the account? If an account gets reported to us more than once for 'hacking' and we track account info sharing on it or trading on it the account is marked to watch basicly... if it happens yet again it gets terminated.

Additionally Req is telling you the way things are generally to work, however the accounts department (which isn't us) have parameters they work within as well if there are outstanding issues they do have the remit to terminate accounts without requesting more info.

cus goa is always right and we are always wrong :m00:

sorry, that's not how it works, but going to court cus you make retarded descisions goes too far - even for a whiner like me :p

im sure you have some valid points but your policy is inconsistant as hell, keep changing your arguments all the time, but kinda cba to go into that again cus you'll never acknowledge ;)
 

Lethul

FH is my second home
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
8,433
Vodkafairy said:
sure is, i have some quality stuff to add in there aswell :D

this is my favorite tho

"All I will say is that the use of 3rd party programs will get your account terminated instantly.

No warnings. No 'slaps on the wrist'."

tihi :)
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,862
Lethul said:
this is my favorite tho

"All I will say is that the use of 3rd party programs will get your account terminated instantly.

No warnings. No 'slaps on the wrist'."

tihi :)
At the time I wrote that, it was absolutely true. People we caught were terminated instantly. As of right now it's also absolutely true. People I catch are terminated instantly. The only time that policy has changed was just before Christmas when we ran the radar sweep. People we caught then got suspended for a fortnight and we publicised the fact that we'd done so to encourage dishonest players to stop cheating. Other than that one time warning, everyone caught using a third party program has been permabanned. What was your point again?
 

Methos

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
412
Requiel said:
People we caught then got suspended for a fortnight and we publicised the fact that we'd done so to encourage dishonest players to stop cheating. Other than that one time warning, everyone caught using a third party program has been permabanned.

With the risk of going off-topic i'd like to reply on this:

Effectively what happened is that the people that have used radar since the beginning of the game (or how far radar goes back), got let off easy at the start of NF with a 2-week ban, while Joe Regular installing his radar now gets permban. You could almost see it as a warning/reward for the people that have been ruining fun for others from the start of the game.

Don't get me wrong, i think all radarusers (or cheaters in general) should get a permban... but everytime i see that midgard player who's name starts with a K, i see someone that shouldn't be playing, but he is.

On-topic: Zenythe & Requiel: I like the fact that the GM's take an active part in the community but be careful with being drawn into discussions like this. Everything is stated clearly in the CoC and EULA, if people can't be bothered to read them it's their problem. The more you try to discuss and reason with them, the more people will try to poke holes in your story or find inconsistencies.
 

Killswitch

FH is my second home
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
1,584
This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever read. Surely this isn't that hard to understand.

Breaking the CoC is NOT illegal. As far as I am aware, you can grief people, scam items, use 3rd-party programs and speedhack without being taken to court or having your door kicked in by the Police.

When you pay GOA your $$$$ each month, both parties agree to abide by a defined set of rules concerning conduct. GOA agree to let you use their servers and to offer support. They also agree to take action against people breaking the rules laid out in the CoC.

If you break the CoC, all that means is that GOA no longer have to keep up their side of the bargain. This is a little one-sided, because part of the CoC basically says that if GOA don't like what you're doing, you're in violation. However, Req and the gang all seem fairly reasonable.

From what I can tell, the "secret word" that GOA use to determine ownership of an account is the CD-KEY used to activate it. In the case of a disputed account, if one party has the CD-KEY then they are the "proved" owner and will be given control of the account. If both parties have the CD-KEY, the account is, by definition, insecure (ie ownership cannot be proven).

This is a GOOD system, because if your computer or e-mail is hacked, you can still get your account back (although you may lose items and plats) provided you have the original box. CD-KEYs are not shown on login (anymore) or on the Subs site.

Now, if you buy an account, you can be pretty sure that the original owner had access to the CD-KEY and probably still does. That means that at any time, they can regain control of the account and you can't do anything about it. Even if they give you the CD-KEY, they can still have the account perma-closed by disputing ownership.

As it stands, there is NO safe way to trade an account and it would be trivial for someone to take £200 off you for their account and then have it back under their control within a week.

IF YOU BREAK THE CoC, THE RULES YOU AGREE TO FOLLOW EVERY TIME YOU LOG ON, YOU CAN'T EXPECT GOA TO BE SYMPATHETIC WHEN YOU GET SCAMMED.

If you want a discussion of the US system, just read the above post again replacing the phrase "CD-KEY" with the phrase "SECRET WORD" and it'll read just as well. The only difference is Mythic allow wholesale trading of accounts, so the buyer will still have support. If both have the SECRET WORD though, ownership will still not be proven.
 

moik

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
482
Requiel said:
At the time I wrote that, it was absolutely true. People we caught were terminated instantly. As of right now it's also absolutely true. People I catch are terminated instantly. The only time that policy has changed was just before Christmas when we ran the radar sweep. People we caught then got suspended for a fortnight and we publicised the fact that we'd done so to encourage dishonest players to stop cheating. Other than that one time warning, everyone caught using a third party program has been permabanned. What was your point again?

I think it's fun when you actually get the chance to spot radarusers you let them off with a slap on the wrist - instead of following your policy about permabanning without warning.

And i would like to contribute to requiel_bs.txt with my sig :eek:
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,862
moik said:
I think it's fun when you actually get the chance to spot radarusers you let them off with a slap on the wrist - instead of following your policy about permabanning without warning.

And i would like to contribute to requiel_bs.txt with my sig :eek:
I've caught plenty of radar users and they've all been permabanned. The radarsweep has been run several times since then as well and the people caught have been permabanned.

Regarding the point in your sig. When I was asked that question, I did not realise that people could use it to exploit. It was annoying but nothing more. As soon as it became clear that it was an exploit, it became punishable. You described half a situation to me and I replied on the basis of that information. If you'd asked "Is it punishable to crash boats so that people can use them to become invulnerable in RvR." the answer would of course have been yes.
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
Requiel said:
People we caught then got suspended for a fortnight
Requiel said:
No warnings. No 'slaps on the wrist'.

you can twist words all you like, but saying x and doing y and trying to defend it makes you look like a fool. hence all the whines you get ;)
 

moik

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
482
So, then the question is: Why did you ban people directely instead of making an official statement where you make it clear you have changed your view on the whole crashing boats issue?

And i also would like to know why the one's crashing the boats got AT LEAST 3 days suspension while the ones sitting in the boats to actually become invurnable got off with a warning?

Have asked these questions to rightnow, still waiting for an answer since friday when you set my rightnow to SOLVED even tho it wasn't even close to being solved - but it seems its more important trolling forums than providing support trough the official support-tool, rightnow.
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,862
moik said:
So, then the question is: Why did you ban people directely instead of making an official statement where you make it clear you have changed your view on the whole crashing boats issue?

And i also would like to know why the one's crashing the boats got AT LEAST 3 days suspension while the ones sitting in the boats to actually become invurnable got off with a warning?

Have asked these questions to rightnow, still waiting for an answer since friday when you set my rightnow to SOLVED even tho it wasn't even close to being solved - but it seems its more important trolling forums than providing support trough the official support-tool, rightnow.
Because people were cheating and that's never acceptable. People caught abusing got suspended. I replied to your queries on RightNow but after explaining the position multiple times, I felt that there was little point in continuing to repeat myself.
 

moik

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
482
Answer the questions i asked instead of coming with some bullshit reply, u've avoided the questions on rightnow enough imo.

Question still stands:
Why did ppl abusing the boats only get a warning while the ones crashing the boats got atleast 3 days?

Oh and edit: just checked my mail, not gotten a reply on my last 3 updates on the rightnow.
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,862
Cheating is cheating regardless of whether we've said it is specifically or not. If people cheat they can be punished. It says so in the CoC:
CoC said:
Players undertake not to make use of any bugs, nor to use any undocumented functions, nor to exploit any possible design faults....GOA reserves the right (at any time and without prior notice) to reduce access to or block an account temporarily or definitively if the user has not respected this Charter, has encouraged another user not to respect the Charter or has caused harm to the user community.
Regardless of whether we've said it's cheating or not publically, any infringement is punishable. When you spoke to me ingame and asked me, I was mistaken as I was not aware of the entire situation. Had I been, my answer would have been different. However I have no doubt that the people abusing this bug were aware that they were getting an unfair advantage from it. Anyone I catch abusing this bug by either putting boats into illegal positions or using them while in that state will be suspended. We don't warn people for bug abuse, you either get suspended or you get terminated depending on the severity of the situation and your previous history.

There will be an announcement regarding this, there was supposed to be one in the last news but for various reasons it didn't go in. I expect it will be there next week. As it is the issue seems to be confined to a very small number of people. Since the suspensions last week the number of crashed boats has gone from several dozen per server to practically none at all.

There really is no argument to be had here, it is cheating and people who abuse it will get punished. That is the beginning, the middle and the end of it.
 

moik

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
482
Greetings,
We have investigated an incident of bug abuse and found your account to be involved. The specifics are:
Character: *Edited*
Account: *Edited*
Date: 10-04-2005
Details of the offence: taking advantage of the stranded ship bug in New Frontiers
Consequences for the account: Warning


"We don't warn people for bug abuse, you either get suspended or you get terminated depending on the severity of the situation and your previous history."

This does not look like a suspension or termination to me.

Edit: this warning is not from my account, i got this info from someone else.
 

Belomar

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,107
Eh, it is obvious you are slow, but exactly how slow are you? The GMs post on these forums more or less a service to the community, not so that dimwits like you can get an opportunity to break down every statement into molecules and scan them for irregularities. Requiel and the others are putting a face to GOA and have improved the service immensely these last months, yet the downside is obviously that they have to deal with things like this (i.e. "buuuhuuuu, I abused a bug and got suspended but they did something similar and they only got warned!"). Now wipe your tears and take it like a man(?).
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
that's not how it went belo. innocently crashing boats was fine, the gm himself TOLD him it was fine, then they change their policy, consider us as malicious bug abusers and ban us

when the REAL abusers only get a warning.
 

moik

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
482
I'm just pissed since i have asked these questions to RightNow for several days and all the answers i get are bullshit answers that they think they can get away with - had they answered properly i would never be here bitching about it. Im still waiting for for an answer to my last update on Rightnow (posted this Friday) but requiel decides to stay here and add more content to requiel_bs.txt instead.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
"Dear GOA, Can I stand on top of rocks?"

GOA: yes.

Post on FH:
WAAAAAAAAAAAH GOA BANNED ME FOR STANDING ON A ROCK
(whilst gaining stupid amounts of xp in a way that carries no risk but that I'm not gonna go into details of)

Grow up, you cheated, you crashed boats so that people could use them to exploit in RvR - you got warned/suspended/whatever (or your friends did) - tough shit.
 

Raven

Happy Shopper Ray Mears
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
44,617
even a simpleton would grasp the fact that crashing boats for the use of an exploit would be against the CoC (you know, that thing you agree to when you log in to the game) Its also funny that ebayers QQ because they got their account banned when they know that its not permitted to trade accounts. you have no come back for cheating its tough shit, sorry.
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
maybe the boat weren't crashed so people could exploit them but to get to a 'safe' dropoff point :p ?
 

Jika

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Messages
1,040
blaa blaa blaa .. I have got like 3-4 warnings so far .. 4 suspensions .. 1 perma ban xDD .. who rox?! and only 1 of them was for real thing, rest was pure bs :) but again .. 10 pts to goa .. making this game shit :D that I dont wanna even play it anymore :D
 

moik

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
482
Still waiting for an answer to my questions - both here and on rightnow.

And flimgoblin, all i did was placing the rock there, after i asked a GM if i could, others stood on it while killing mobs - and got away with a warning too.
 

Tilda

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
5,755
moik carry this out in RN, Requiel comes here volunterly, if you want to grill him do it through RN, not here.
It seems to be its pretty obvious you knew it was bug abuse, but asked in a way that Requiel wasnt told the full facts so he gave you an inappropriate reply.
Go out get some fresh air tbh.

Closed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom