Albion RvR TL Report - March

[Asha]

There is more ppl who play like me than you think. If you consider me "hardcore" then most of the server is...

Why do you think that the people who enjoy keep taking and running in herds outnumbers those who do not? I don't think that everyone has to play the same way that I do, but I also think that it's a shame to encourage (force) "realm wars" as a daily event/only way to rvr. And in fact I DON'T think that is mythics intention. I think that they want people to be able to log in and find a fight - it isn't the same. And the fact is that they cater to the "hardcore" players far more by introducing RAs, SC, SI, & TOA. I don't think they are doing an about-face anytime soon.

Mythic Could easly make this a FG game, Medal on pad = Port to RR7+ BG with 16-32 player cap < incl BB's etc >.

Or they could make it a FG (they did invent groups set at 8 for a reason) game with some Realm Wars thrown in ... where you can port to a zone and fight as many ppl as you can handle before starting again or, if you choose, you can do something epic like relic raids. I think that the 10% bonus per relic and the RP bonuses of holding a keep should be enough.

There are wankers everywhere, no matter what game style, guild, etc. That is besides the point. If NP, JH, DH, VNG, BF, FC, AD, and 10 other guilds that I forget left the server, the high level of play would drop. To me that is what is fun, not being cannon fodder or a heal bot. Not being part of a group of 50 people that I don't know.

 

[Asha]

Fair point.

Many a time I have seen 130+ albs in emain running around in FG's and Mini Zergs and even big feck off zergs, some bright spark says hey lets do DC and get DF for some farming, 5mins later 30 odd people are smacking on the door then they get fed up and leave, the infils inside get left behind dragging pops away from DC.

So why is it out of a CG with 100+ people in it less than 30% turn up take a keep, dare I say it slows the RP's down a bit...

So yeah, yer right Skil

No, it's because it's fuckoff boring to hit doors, or worse, stand around as a support char. People want to fight... Why stand around doing something that is virtually pointless if you could be having fun ? If you told me I would get twice the RP for taking DC as for spending the same 45 mins having good fights, I would want to fight.

 

[Skilgannon]

If NP, JH, DH, VNG, BF, FC, AD, and 10 other guilds that I forget left the server

What would frighten Mythic more?

The top 10% quitting or the bottom 90%?

If the above Guilds (and their opposite numbers on all other servers) all quit then whoever chairs the next Mythic meeting would probably start by saying "Bad day at the office"

If the non-RvR guild players quit, the person chairing the next Mythic meeting would be Mythic's Attorney filing for protection and saying "Game over"

 

[Asha]

lies, damn lies, and statistics...

rr5 is not difficult with an RvR friendly character. RvR friendly or not is a totally separate issue - that I would love to see fixed. rr5 is not an impossible dream at all. You're 11% is counting chars that were totally made by the player for PvE (necros, paladins, friars) and bbots. I mean people like Eggy have 8 lvl 50 on one account. Obviously, RvR isn't his focus there. Because 2 of his 8 chars are rr5+ doesn't mean that rr5 is an impossible dream.

I have a friend who has a mincer, rr5, she doesn't even have epic on this char. She did it all solo. She got rr4 before 50 I think. I have some sc on my reaver and have made rr4 almost all solo w/o a bbot (and I suck!). If someone cannot get rr5 it's because they got to 50 and discovered they don't like the toon or RvR.

I think mythic set it at RR5 because it's something to achieve. RR3 or 4 would be too low rr7 too high. Maybe rr4 would have been ok, but rr5 certainly isn't that hard.

One thing that I have heard before and would not have a problem with would be "mini relics" for keep taking forces. I am not sure how that could work w/out encoraging zerging (and I mean zerging not equal forces) keeps. Maybe only the group that kill the lord would get the bonus, or only the group claiming - until the keep falls again. Ofc only one bonus per character. And maybe you could make some keeps have better bonuses than others to encourage the use of zones that don't see the light of day right now. Maybe make it so that you can't overlap relic bonuses with the littler bonuses so that realms w/o relics would have more reason to do realm warfare.


I think it's more like 30% than 10% and I think that these people often own 2-3 accounts. And I think that the game would be horribly dull w/out them.

 

[Bracken]

From Herald:

"New Frontiers will overhaul the game's Realm vs. Realm combat system, where players from the different Realms invade each other's territory, engage in pitched battles, and lay siege to keeps.

What are the goals of this expansion? After more than two years of RvR experience and player feedback, we have three specific goals to meet:

1. We want to add more tactics and diversity to RvR battles. Within New Frontiers, you'll find strategic geography, more movement abilities, and expanded keep building options. You'll also find revised and expanded siege capabilities.

2. We want to make RvR battles more accessible. That means players will be able to find battles more quickly, as well as participate more effectively than before. We want everyone to experience the excitement of battle should they choose to do so, whether that battle is in a fast and furious battleground (available for most levels of players), or a full out war between armies.

3. We want to give more concrete bonuses and abilities as rewards for taking part in RvR. As part of this expansion, we're redesigning the Realm Ability system. We're also expanding the keep bonus system - meaning we're adding to the benefits derived from capturing and defending territory.

In a nutshell, our goal is to make RVR even more fun and compelling for our entire player base. "

Note the last line...basically Mythic want people to be able to enjoy their chosen form of rvr, whether that be solo, 1fg, large scale fights or keep battles. There is no stated preference.

 

[Sohan_thc]

From Herald:

1. We want to add more tactics and diversity to RvR battles. Within New Frontiers, you'll find strategic geography, more movement abilities, and expanded keep building options. You'll also find revised and expanded siege capabilities.

2. We want to make RvR battles more accessible. That means players will be able to find battles more quickly, as well as participate more effectively than before. We want everyone to experience the excitement of battle should they choose to do so, whether that battle is in a fast and furious battleground (available for most levels of players), or a full out war between armies.

LoL ! add more tactics and diversity to RvR battles ( so it is more difficult )
Within New Frontiers ( any1 know the way in sauvage ? or midgard ) so is more difficult also , knowing most ppl only know the way to amg / mmg and mill.

And the second command is
make it more accesible , hmmmm how does that match ?

3. We want to give more concrete bonuses and abilities as rewards for taking part in RvR. As part of this expansion, we're redesigning the Realm Ability system. We're also expanding the keep bonus system - meaning we're adding to the benefits derived from capturing and defending territory.

That is if some other realm group found the keep and wanna give it a try.
In realm , take the keep when ppl got bored to dead. and gone to bed.
ohw but you get more bonus !! yeah right like ppl now care about the bonus you get from having a keep / relics etc , you bash away on lvl 50 for 60 mil in a group those 5% orso extra who cares. == 1 pull with 5 mobs on the 100 pulls . pffft .

To make a keep insta intresting ?
give 1000 rlm when door 1 goes down
1500 for door 2 and 2500 when killed the lord.
then the guild gets rlm for the ppl who got killed by the guards.

In a nutshell, our goal is to make RVR even more fun and compelling for our entire player base. "

Even more fun ? hmm as soon as the layed their hands on a button to tune it. that button got nerved to the bottem / broken / screwed or dissapeard.
Nope sofare the game tuning is not really the best point to pomote in the game.

note the last line...basically Mythic want people to be able to enjoy their chosen form of rvr, whether that be solo, 1fg, large scale fights or keep battles. There is no stated preference.

Yep albs are large scale due to lots of albions around who need to do something.
Mids are running pretty fair in the middle loose some win some
hibs hmmm insta mezz pboae repeat repeat /stick /wave

but we just keep on playing and will take a look to the new keeps etc
like we last did , on the new lay outs with new places for the door
cause this would give keep take retake a great boost
hehehe well they are just as intresting as last year.

random /group quote
Relics are SOoo last year stuff

 

[Skilgannon]

You're 11% is counting chars that were totally made by the player for PvE (necros, paladins, friars) and bbots. I mean people like Eggy have 8 lvl 50 on one account. Obviously, RvR isn't his focus there. Because 2 of his 8 chars are rr5+ doesn't mean that rr5 is an impossible dream.

Perhaps your interpretation of 'active RvR' differs. You obviously believe a bot or PvE necro is active in RvR The numbers are based on the 2 weeks prior to ToA in Europe for characters with a min 3k per week. Bots and PvE toons don't tend to earn that. You can even run it yourself on the camelot seer.

And yes, it is the impossible dream for many to achieve RR5. For some of us it isn't, but for most, RR5 is a vast amount of RP.

There are many who go out to RvR and make little to no RPs in return for several hours.

It is easy to say things like, form an optimal group, wait at the PK till you have a good group, join a top Guild etc etc. These things are always spouted when this question arises. The harsh reality is that not everyone has access to a performing Guild, and not everyone can stay at a PK for an hour building a group.

Say to the player who comes home from work and wants to RvR for a few hours to spend 1 or 2 at the PK. Pointless.

Yet why shouldn't these players be able to have fun? Fun isn't being rolled by optimum groups and earning nada.

As for Mythic not doing an about face. Sorry. Mythic are in the real world. Do you believe that the ToA bonus nerf was because of player whines or was it based on a business decision. I know where my money would be.

Mythic will do whatever is necessary to ensure their market share in the face of competition. At the moment there is little to zero competition. Frontiers will be there their vehicle to ensure they remain top dog. They have to make the game look attractive in terms of reward, but they also have to retain the bulk of their playerbase.

They will do an about turn if the money men tell them to. Simple as that.

 

[Asha]

There are loads of rr5+ chars that weren't active 2 weeks before TOA. Those kinds of stats can be made to back up just about any point. So you're stat is saying that 2 weeks before TOA, 11% of euro and usa characters getting 3k+ a week were rr5+ ?? That stat says nothing to me, but maybe I misunderstand you. That stat on teh EU servers could simpley illustrate that many people had rerolled in anticipation of TOA. It could also mean that many rr5+ players weren't active that week. It could also mean that people were farming cash instead of getting 3k that week. Stats can be twisted to say anything.... really

I am not talking about optimal groups. I gave two examples of people getting rr5 (well ok I am rr4 on reaver, but if I wasn't in demand w/cleric I would be rr5) with minimal set up, solo - it isn't THAT hard. It's 2 or maybe 3 months work depending on the class. If that is too much, then this isn't the game for you. This game demands huge time sinks.

"There are many who go out to RvR and make little to no RPs in return for several hours."

Then they are doing something wrong. Like soloing in emain with a rejuv cleric, or standing around apk yelling for a group - no one answers those yells.

"Say to the player who comes home from work and wants to RvR for a few hours to spend 1 or 2 at the PK. Pointless."

Why not go to HW and solo ? Or join a friend in DF? Or a few friends in Odin if there isnt' too much going on there? Me playing reaver isn't good for groups so I don't group her often, but I have fun when I play her. RP isn't all. I have fun to find little fights with her in Alb or Mid frontier, or Hib late at night. Doesn't feel pointless at all...

"Yet why shouldn't these players be able to have fun? Fun isn't being rolled by optimum groups and earning nada."

Why? Because that is the nature of this game. You put in time to get rewards, in pve and in rvr. Mythic want to keep their existing player base interested so they will continue to bring out more goodies and add ons. No, the player who wants to play 2 hours every other day won't keep up. If they want to be able to log in and play w/out putting in the time that other people do, then DAoC isn't the game for them.

Mythic are in the real world (just down the road actually ) - but they are also producing a certain kind of game. It's not a game that you just log on and play and log off. It's a game that you build up and return to again and again. Where you work with other people to create something - hopefully lasting. That is what makes it different from other things on the market. The kind of people who enjoy that are their player base. The player base isn't people who just want to log in, not build anything or put any effort in, and play. I hope that the changes that I see described in Frontiers don't take away from the building of characters, groups, guilds, and alliances and the effort some people have put into that.

 

[Kagato]

I enjoy the thrill of high end RvR for the challenge, for the pride of winning, and simply for the rps to make my character stronger. If that makes me a bad person so be it, we play the game for what we want to enjoy.

What I don't enjoy is bashing keep doors whilst being cannonfodder for anybody with a ranged attack.

Nor do I enjoy f8/stick/anytime style zerg fights, where am sorry but as much as you like to think it, you DON'T make a sodding differance, 1 person no matter how good is going to turn the tide of a battle, you might help to a small barely significant percentage, but the fact is if your zerg was going to beat the enemy zerg, they'd of done it wether you were there, afk, or still sat on the pad in CS.

Call me pretentious but I like to know I played a crucial part in my side winning. That you can only get in a small scale fight, be it solo, duo's, small groups or fg vs fg, in fact the greatest thrill I get is beating greater odds by killing enemies with larger numbers.

In an ideal world Mythic would give us a game where we can get all the above type of fights we want, so you know where to look for the encounters you enjoy, and to be honest the game is not that far off from this now. However the changes to the game now and the ones coming all indicate that they are forcing us to only stand a chance of having zerg fights, and that is just wrong, to take away even the option of the other fights we enjoy.

Provide us with all of them, but do not take away the choice.

 

[Gordonax]

There is more ppl who play like me than you think. If you consider me "hardcore" then most of the server is...

But as Skilgannon says, even on Excal only 20% of active level 50s are RR5 and above. That indicates there's a huge number of sub-RR5 more casual players, who more likely than not aren't devoted to 1fg. Unlike you, I actually still play in pickup groups and sub-optimal guild groups - and in those types of set up, which (if you look around in emain) constitute the majority, there's little emphasis on 8v8.

I'm not criticising your right to play how you enjoy, but I think you're wrong if you believe that most of the server shares your likes and hatred of zerging. I suspect that, actually, what the majority of people like is variety: a bit of zerging, a bit of keep takes, some solo stuff if you can do it, some 8v8, with a bit of PvE mixed in. Playing in only one way all the time is a recipe for boredom, in my book.

 

[Skilgannon]

My argument is not that you should be forced to zerg. You shouldn't be. There are are better games for fg vs fg out there and maybe that is your better option.

I don't zerg. I hate Emain with a passion. I RvR predominantly with the same group of people in Odins/HW, and sometimes solo. But i will never criticise those who zerg, those who steamroll me solo with a fg, or run 5+fg. They are paying there subs and playing how they want to. I would prefer to fight in even fights, but i would prefer more to still be playing this game 1 year or 2 years from now.

I am also old enough and long-toothed enough to see reality. This game is not fun for a great many players, but there isn't anything else out there to force change...yet.

Change will come when casual players have an option. WoW, with it's limited PvP, may provide that. When the prospect of losing their playerbase happens Mythic will act (and I believe they know a tad more about the market than most players) What governs the success of a game like DAoC ( and success will be quantified by dividends to shareholders) is how many players/accounts logon. All decisions about the game are governed by that. If fewer players logon, change will come.

Mythic asked for feedback and they got it. What the majority feel is what will eventually happen. It is the way of the world. If you disagree with the decisions you vote with your feet, just like in the real world.

 

[Gordonax]

I am also old enough and long-toothed enough to see reality. This game is not fun for a great many players, but there isn't anything else out there to force change...yet.

Pfff, got to disagree with you there. If it's not fun, you don't play. If there are people around who pay a subscription fee to be bored or have a bad time, they're pretty damn stupid. ToA madness made it not fun for me for a bit. It was only when I realised I'd only played one night in three weeks that I even thought about coming back. And playing my baby level 24 cabby is making it fun Actually it's the Hibs and Mids who try and beat up my pet without realising that a spirit cabby's pet is damn tough that's making it fun

 

[Grebneklaf]

Sometimes i am really happy that i enjoy PvE so much, so much hate and anger outside my little bubble