Albion E&E's

[psyco]

So, in order to make the game playable for E&E we get absolutely no abilities other than what everyone else gets.

i wasn't sugesting they get these abils on a normal char... ie, they get a special 11th char slot with some reseting facilitys

 

[Kinetix]

I tell you this sympathetic pregnancy lark is a pain... the amount of cream cakes I need to eat to keep up with the belly size...

Thoughts:

24/7 service: You do indeed pay to play a 24/7 game, and the game is (usually) up 24/7... one particular encounter in one tiny part of the game might be down for a bit longer (and not fixed immediately at 3am on a saturday night) but if the servers go down there will be people there to fix them any time of the day, any time of the week. So you _do_ pay for a 24/7 service and you get it. Just not a 24/7 arti-raid fixing service.

Someone did rightnow that katorii was bugged, yes? rather than everyone thinking someone else must have done it?

It's also not been bugged intentionally a few different times by someone trying to sneak past to (say) farm Typhon? In which case it might have been fixed multiple times already.

Regarding E&Es:
As much as I'd like to have the ability to port around at will (it'd make my smiter a dangerous enemy for a change) I don't think giving that sort of powers to anyone not employed by GOA is a good plan.

Incidentally if it were easy to create a "reset switch" for an encounter it'd probably be just as easy to fix the bug in the first place.... and before people go "why don't GOA do that?" - that's entirely up to Mythic. And as the issue with "what if the E&E is out in RvR" shows you'd need to give a lot more powers than just "press a button".... and any sort of extra powers would lead to people accusing E&E of using them to cheat. Moment anyone died to an E&E it'd be because of their encounter-resetting abilities.

So, in order to make the game playable for E&E we get absolutely no abilities other than what everyone else gets.

More E&Es:
Can't be a bad thing - apply it usually takes a while for them to choose new E&E's they need to make sure you've not spent your life exploiting in Avalon City or whatever... or grief emote-spamming people

And since this seems to be made a bit more obvious:

USE RIGHT NOW - USE IT! LOG IN SEND A REPORT, USE RIGHT NOW, IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, USE RIGHT NOW.

did I mention to use right now?

GMs don't lurk on servers all that much - but there's someone on RightNow from 11am to 11pm (CET) every day.

more important is what is the response time after you right now? if a GM would log 15 mins later saying that the problem is being take care off would be very good

 

[Corran]

i wasn't sugesting they get these abils on a normal char... ie, they get a special 11th char slot with some reseting facilitys

And that means that a E&E will have to stop doing whatever they doing, log off, log onto another toon then fix the bug....

Oh but hang on, they now lost there /stat stuff which stops them from keeping track of how the day went. They lost their space in the XP group/RvR group or said group had to stop ... etc etc etc.

It a bad idea .. dont need to say more

 

[psyco]

And that means that a E&E will have to stop doing whatever they doing, log off, log onto another toon then fix the bug....

Oh but hang on, they now lost there /stat stuff which stops them from keeping track of how the day went. They lost their space in the XP group/RvR group or said group had to stop ... etc etc etc.

It a bad idea .. dont need to say more

they dont have to do it imediatly... there just volentiers, unlike goa who get paid

 

[evzy]

Ah nothing like a whine thread with a pretty much new(ish) flavour of whine

BTW I havent rightnow'd it but there is a problem somewhere on a server ...I think its DAOC... can it be fixed yesterday please

 

[Golena]

And since this seems to be made a bit more obvious:

USE RIGHT NOW - USE IT! LOG IN SEND A REPORT, USE RIGHT NOW, IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, USE RIGHT NOW.

did I mention to use right now?

I think the issue here is that rightnow while useful doesn't appear to be enough on it's own.
I personally knew Katorii was bugged over 24 hours before the raid. I posted on freddyshouse 24 hours before the raid that it was bugged.. I rightnowed it 24 hours before the raid that it was bugged, yet the encounter hadn't been fixed before the raid.

GM's no doubt get lots of rightnows every day that they work through in order to address. The problem is that there is currently no way to contact a GM to let them know that unless this if fixed in the next 24 hours, a raid isn't going to happen. Fixing Katorii 4 hours after the raid has occured leads to 120 people leaving pissed off because a raid has failed due to a bug. GM's shifts finish at 11pm, but that's of no help to anyone's raid if no-one can actually get hold of them.. (i've been on 2 raids recently where bugged encounters have endangered the raid, during what is apparently working hours for the GM's, yet no-one from the 150 people present had any way of letting them know) and the only way to do so is via a system that means your query will get looked at in 10 hours time.

What that system means is that any raid that encounters a bug that means an encounter is undoable will fail. There's a GM about working that could fix it in 5 minutes, but instead of doing that he's sifting through a report someone filed about someone emote spamming from 2 days ago. When you look at it this way, surely something can be implemented to allow players to grab the GM's attention in the case of bugged ML encounters. An option on rightnow that allows you to file a fast trak bug report that gets looked at before the mundane stuff, anything.. Just give it the option to select a ML step that's bugged that flashes up on a system in the office so a GM knows they need to log on and investigate.

 

[Golena]

Ah nothing like a whine thread with a pretty much new(ish) flavour of whine

It wasn't started as a whine thread, but more a thread to try and find a solution to a increasing problem.

Like all threads on here, the whiners felt the need to leap in and doomsay however.

 

[Esselinithia]

Remember my favorite problem with prydwen crash: Lack of proper communication, and lack of backup plans (what you can do while you face some bugs).

While I told why rightnow isn't enough to warn the players, now we see one more problem with it: it isn't enough to warn the players. You know what would happen, if everyone from a raid would ask on RN, if this or that step is bugged now or not? Lots of extra work, but if GOA would be able to post information about server status, etc. that would work.

Now some E&E, who is volunteered for such work says: Logging out and logging in is bad, it kills stats, etc. When you have to go to rightnow because there is no real in game support, it tends to end up in a very similar way. Partly because GOA site is heavy with flash, uses too much resources, slow, etc.

In game support is common for MMORPGs.
If a game is weak with in game support (and this is changed by GOA since Mythic uses in game support tools), you need a fast, non intrusive web page, that lets you access to support system quickly: GOA is weak here too.
If you can't get in game help with bugs quickly and easily and should check status of stuff before raid, you need reliable information source, since 160 RNs asking about the same step would be destructive...

As you see we have some GOA only problem here.

 

[Esselinithia]

they dont have to do it imediatly... there just volentiers, unlike goa who get paid

Psyco: As I have explained, E&E is just one information source from the 3 main sources of information for GMs, if the two outher way would work well, they wouldn't have to react quickly. Now a lot of things depend on them.

 

[Esselinithia]

more important is what is the response time after you right now? if a GM would log 15 mins later saying that the problem is being take care off would be very good

With the response time on rightnow, if you plan to attend on a raid, and plan to ask GMs about status of the encounters (since they can be broken) you would have to ask 3-4 days before the raid, and that would flood RN and would add to response time, etc.

 

[Thorwyn]

While I told why rightnow isn't enough to warn the players, now we see one more problem with it: it isn't enough to warn the players. You know what would happen, if everyone from a raid would ask on RN, if this or that step is bugged now or not? Lots of extra work, but if GOA would be able to post information about server status, etc. that would work.

There is an online information about server status. It´s "Excalibur: up". What more information do you need? And even more important: how do you expect the information to be correct and up to date? Do you seriously expect an online information: "ML2 step 1: ok, step 2: ok step 3: currently bugged" for every frigging ML step, every artifact encounter, every CL step and every boring epic quest? All this based upon the informations of JimmiPowerGamer, who is too thick to properly start the encounter and claims it to be "bugged" and complains to a GM, E&E or RN? Or RogerTheDodger who heroically messed up an encounter and says it´s "bugged" because it´s too humiliating to admit it to an entire ML raid? Can you even imagine the ammount of work it takes to a. gather b. verfiy c. update those informations? Wouldn´t you prefer the ressources to be spend on the actual problem instead of a problem management system?
If a ML encounter is bugged, THIS is the place to make it known to the playerbase. True, not everybody reads FH, but there´s a pretty good chance that at least some of the people in the /bg will. All the mindless drivel about a lack of informations just shows that you don´t even remotely have a clue what you´re talking about.

 

[Esselinithia]

Thorwyn: Easy, a server can have the following states:

Normal: Up and running, no serious bugs
OK: Some minor bugs, workaround can be seen on the page (say CM bug, etc)
Check: There are bug reports about the server, and GOA is checking them (affected encounter is listed)
Confirmed: The reported bug is confirmed by GOA staff
Degraded: The known bugs have a significant effect on game, some compensation inc. Reboots (for hot fixes) or a possible crash to be expected
Down: Down.

In all cases: The ML / CL / etc steps related to Reported / confirmed bugs are displayed (without discussing the bug in detail)

 

[Thorwyn]

So you want an online bug database?!

It won´t happen. No company in a healthy state of mind will publish that, let alone pay someone to keep that database up and running and correct.
PLUS... the informations would only be relevant if it´s a permanent bug i.e. not something you can fix on the fly (if a GM is online).
In addition, the information update would still have the usual delay if reported at off-work hours or the weekend.

 

[Esselinithia]

Wrong:

1st: Since only CURRENT bugs are listed it wouldn't have the usual risk of bug database. And since no details are listed only the name of encounters no chance to abuse it.

2nd: Maybe Microsoft is stupid for that, maybe all security companies are stupid for having a bug database, maybe lots of web developers are stupid and only you know how to run a company. Realy! And all ISPs, cable companies, etc are stupid for reporting all problems with the service asap to reduce the strain on support staff. You know it better. Yeah, right.

3rd: It is easy to code it as an automated tool linked to RN. Fast, automated, 0 staff required to update.

4th: They need a bug database anyway, it is just a VERY limited view of it...

5th: You can see how quickly they fixed this bug, and the rest, and you can imagine how much time they might spend on RN if we keep asking about bugs since they don't have a knowledge base about the relevant ones... That isn't wasted work time and money, no...

 

[psyco]

this would be silly people would have to check the encounters constantly witch is just not plausable

 

[Thorwyn]

lol

You´re obviously living in Cloud Cockoo land.

Go on explaining everybody how the world is working and what´s possible and easy and what´s not. It´s really interesting.

 

[Esselinithia]

Psyco: noone needs to check them, when they are reported: Only encounter name gets visible in the list of bugous encounters.
When it is fixed: It gets removed

This easy.
Why?

Because GMs can't detect the bugs without doing the encounter, so it can only end up in the database when it is reported.
And it gets out of it, when it is fixed.

Without such database noone can fix reported bugs. Why? Because they can't keep track of all problems in mind... Much less if they need teamwork to maintain something

 

[Esselinithia]

lol

You´re obviously living in Cloud Cockoo land.

Go on explaining everybody how the world is working and what´s possible and easy and what´s not. It´s really interesting.

You must have a company far bigger than microsoft, since you claim you can run companies better than them. Can I hear the name of it? Moron, Inc. maybe? Or Stupidity Ltd.?

 

[Thorwyn]

Psyco: noone needs to check them, when they are reported: Only encounter name gets visible in the list of bugous encounters.

So you want to list bugged encounters without checking them? This is getting better and better.

Good! So some guy who killed my mobs in Mithra is planning a ML raid. I don´t like that guy. So I better start reporting some bugged encounters and spoil his raid, right?

An information like this is so utterly redundant that it´s not even worth the time to read it. The only information it contains is: some person *thinks* the encounter might be bugged. Would you cancel a ML raid based upon that information?

You must have a company far bigger than microsoft, since you claim you can run companies better than them. Can I hear the name of it? Moron, Inc. maybe? Or Stupidity Ltd.?

Dude, you´re spilling your pseudo-didactic drivel all over the place since years now. And the GMs have proven that you´re wrong time and time again. Yet it doesn´t keep you from acting like the messiah of software engineering and marketing and you keep failing to understand simple mechanisms of both areas.
Way to go.

 

[Esselinithia]

BTW: A Ticket based support system, where you can group tickets when they are about the same bug, is the tool you might need. Want to hear about one such tool? Guess... it is called Rightnow. The makers of this piece of software claims it is good for such solutions

And also it is possible to integrate Rightnow with "external data sources" such as bugs reported in game, etc.

Even some free systems can do this

 

[Esselinithia]

Dude, you´re spilling your pseudo-didactic drivel all over the place since years now. And the GMs have proven that you´re wrong time and time again. Yet it doesn´t keep you from acting like the messiah of software engineering and marketing and you keep failing to understand simple mechanisms of both areas.
Way to go.

Ok, if you can't do anything but do personal attacks, here is the list of things GOA proven...

They "proven" to you, that only OpenTransit has backbone in france. Official databases (whois, ripe, etc) proven otherwise. You can guess what you can trust: A GM, or and official database, that displays REAL data, which can't be fake (since it is used by the net itself).

They proven that the main goa.com web site isn't used, for years: Only a few articles added to it after that, and they recruit staff for such stuff even now.

They proven they aren't part of same company, as OpenTransit, since they are no longer Wanadoo but the parent company (France Telecom) who runs OpenTransit too, but they proven their independence.

They proven that they haven't done anything to prepare for clustering before prydwen crash: Just the servers prepared at same time were prepared for next day, even if they didn't had to work on them after the crash.

Many claim they (in fact other) players proven: only mythic makes changes to the game. GOA quests, barrels, etc. proven otherwise.

Imho they proven one thing: That if they treat you as a moron, they treat you well, because you are a moron. And you are happy when they treat you like that and in fact defend them. You are fail to think all the time. Fail to read, fail to know.

Just one thing: Why DAOC isn't successfull on the European market in english?

A. Because GOA is brilliant and does a job far better than all...

B. Because other companies do a MUCH better job? Like they know how to sell, support and manage their games.

You say Blizzard is a big company? And see the guys behind Everquest? The team behind their MMORPG products didn't start as big. They are part of a bigger company, much like GOA is part of france telecom.

You are so smart, that you knew classic will save the game, and when it doesn't work, you know most people won't look back for old oppinions and can claim, you said otherwise.

GOA knows one thing: for you, a bugged game is enough. And they know it well. And they are happy to provide it. Checking an encounter in 6 weeks would be hard... at least if you are happy with bugs.

 

[Kinetix]

BTW: A Ticket based support system, where you can group tickets when they are about the same bug, is the tool you might need. Want to hear about one such tool? Guess... it is called Rightnow. The makers of this piece of software claims it is good for such solutions

And also it is possible to integrate Rightnow with "external data sources" such as bugs reported in game, etc.

Even some free systems can do this

Mate why can you just admit it? Right now is a piece of crap and completly useless. i dont want to report a bug to a stupid software that cant see the difference from a moose and and bear. The fact is if a GM is online and if i report it to him ill get my problem resolved 10x faster then on right now.

 

[Esselinithia]

Kinetix: Online support is faster.

The question:

We have a lasting bug like this. 6 weeks.
Which is faster: Adding a note in the knowledgebase section of RN (or to the web page) describing the bug and removing when fixed.
Or answering all 160 members of the raid who is supposed to ask about the state of encounter using RN?

One note or 160 (160: You should read AND answer).

Using /Appeal and RN is better than using RN alone since it is easier to report bugs in game.

Placing a CSR ot 2 online is even better.

 

[psyco]

Psyco: noone needs to check them, when they are reported: Only encounter name gets visible in the list of bugous encounters.
When it is fixed: It gets removed

when they get reported they get fixed within 3days... so doing a list of bugged enc's would just waste there time...

and the point of this would be to avoid raids bugging, but it wouldn't solve anything because it would be egsactly the same as it is now

 

[Esselinithia]

Why do you have to track issues?

When you report to Requiel: ML7 is bugged, and ML7 gets reset after half an hour, you kill it...
Next week someone reports the same bug to Xalin, it repeats...
On the 3rd week, someone contacts the 3rd GM.
On the 4th week, someone does it when no GM is online and curses for hours, looks for E&E in vain, etc.

All GMs would say: Well, once in a month it gets bugged, maybe by a bad pull.

If they would track issues, they would know: Same error happened everyweek. If they look in the log: noone pulled the boss in that week. So when the boss pops, it pops bugged, when it spawned manually, it is working. With that information they might fix the problem.

If they check it after the 2nd report (to look for the cause of bug and save work hours) and check it when it spanws (try to kill it with volunteers, etc) and they see: It is buged, etc. they can use that information.

This is why RN is better than listening to players online. This is why they need a database.

 

[Esselinithia]

psyco: In 3 days? We have a 6 weeks old bug, and probably it is still bugged.

You said about the multiple levels of status information: What about false reports: it is up to the raid leader to decide how to handle a reported bug, when it isn't confirmed.

I would look for E&E and ask them if a GM can be present at time of raid, to see if the reported bug would affect the raid and reset the encounter if neccessary. With this warning in advance, both E&E and GMs would be a far better chance of joining BG in time, checking what happens, and if the bug is here, reset it. Or the leader might check the encounter with 1fg, and report again. As you see even the *check* state is helpfull.

 

[Esselinithia]

and the point of this would be to avoid raids bugging, but it wouldn't solve anything because it would be egsactly the same as it is now

Also when a bug report is known, other groups can decide to check it, and confirm the report, before the big raid. If the bug gets confirmed by more people, the report gets more detailed...

 

[Esselinithia]

And one more question: if you still trust GOA staff over RIPE, etc. I would ask one question: why that would make you automatically right?

(Edit: Asked the wrong person...)
Added: if you trust GOA above all, and judge by the poster and not by the post, you won't know anything at all, when you check the post and do your own reading...

 

[psyco]

psyco: In 3 days? We have a 6 weeks old bug, and probably it is still bugged.

it turns out that no-one reported it, golena reported it it was fixed within 72 hours, and yes it is fixed

you are sugesting that goa tells us what encs are bugged, taking up there valuble time where they can fix bug's and work on patch's

 

[Esselinithia]

You claim to be GOA staff so you can read Rightnows, etc? Or just *assume*?

And as I said numerous times: it takes *no* time to make such status visible from the GM team.