After 1.56....

[Freia]

Originally posted by old.Jadow
Perfect recovery - that's the chap.

Just to make perfectly sure that you understood: Perfect recovery is NOT an instant heal. Its an instant rez. Thus, no ip or any of the like for us poor healers. So i was right and you were wrong

I've already emailed mythic - WHO'S WITH ME!!!???
J.

Sure! Nerf all rouges beyond oblivion. (except hunters cause i feel sorry for them)

Edit: Fixed a really nice typo =)

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Oh the nerfs aren't THAT bad...

But believe me this is not the last nerf for assasins we will see, Mythics goal is to bring the assasins population back, and if not enough people stop playing assasins now they will be nerfed even more...

There will be much more archers after 1.56, especially hunters, but if there are as much hunters around then as shadowblades now, they can expect a nerf (or two or three) aswell
Mythics nerfing is not even based on how strong a class is its based on how many people are whining on the VN boards, threathing to quit becase they can't kill assasins when they're running around solo in emain...

Anyway, we will still be able to put up a fight, but if its still as popular then as it is now we can expect some more nerfs :sleeping:

 

[ulukin]

Forgive me for pointing this out but the only tanks any assasin can kill solo are also solo IMO any tank thats stupid enough to be solo in a frontier zone deserves to be ganked by all.

Also have to agree with Jadow how can they justify removing IP from assasins (who IMO need IP more than archers) but not archers.

Reasons
1. archers dont climb into enemy held keeps.
2. archers kill from range behind some tree or scenery assasins take out casters/weak opponents from point blank range meaning even if we kill we have a huge disadvantage when escaping.
3. 2 of the 3 archer classes get a speed buff and the other gets a use anytime style that stuns for 8 or 9 sec's (forget exactly).

Anyway will still play my SB after the nerf and tbh dont see it stoping us killing hybrid tanks that are solo, so

 

[old.Mitsu]

As Jadow pointed out, the seasoned infiltrators will gank like they always have - the bandwagon jumpers will cry.

 

[perag]

the assin classes can blame themselfes for losing IP there was a petition on vnboards, and most said they could do without it.

 

[-dewey-]

Regarding Hunter population;

The hunter population on mid pryd has been pretty high for quite a while, It was slightly higher back in release when the only class that outnumbered Hunters were Thanes (don't ask me why ). I've been doing /who hunter since I started playing and the result isn't usually that low, usually near the top.

Don't know why I decided to post that though, what was this thread about again?.....

 

[pudzy]

It's possible to tank a tank down without meleeing with him even a little bit.

I'm taking all this evade bolx seriousely and sorting my sb out with some seriouse stuff bfore I take rvrl seriouse again, being kobby makes me one of the most exposed races .

Wouldn't say that Shadowblades evade was a complete danger tho, as we are the ONLY realm without a straight off evade stun style.

 

[old.Immortal]

I hope to see Morcharies again soon.
Scouts are gonna own in 1.56, but don't comment that.

 

[Derric]

Oh no!They remove IP!!What a nerf getting 23 extra realmpoints!

 

[Shike]

uhm lol, so archers dont need IP??

try and play one will ya ok...

First of all, when 90% of all assassins i meet in RvR is buffed i dont stand a chanse without ip, i die in 5s and scratches the assassin a bit.

Second, without IP and and if the assassin is unbuffed I stand a 20/80 chanse to win which is fair imo. Against a buffed one I guess chanses are about the same if I have IP and he dont.

As soon as we fire 1 single shot our camotimer is reset. This means that within 10 frigging minutes all infs and SB's see me on clipping range. Which mostly lead to my death since they are all over everywhere and move faster stealthed than I can.

Sure we have a speedbuff, uhm, u know its possible to interrupt it right? oh and do u know minstrels and skalds run faster than we do? oh and did u know its on a 10 minute-timer?

Assassins overall are ridicolously overpowered, when BUFFBOTTED, this nerf and upcoming nerfs is something you buffbotters have dragged upon these 3 classes. If there is someone to blame, have a look at dicks like Rambo ok. Assassins as they are now, unbuffed or in groups is totally ok imo, they are a good wellbalanced class, but all these solobotusers that just rip everything they meet apart in seconds is not ok. They ruin a lot imo.

I got jumped by Iguk some day ago. He didnt even PA me, he hits as fast as me, for 2.5 as much per hit, he evaded 5 of 6 hits and he was solo. Is this right? really? Anyone else but an assassin cant agree to this. Sure I can start to use a bot aswell but that is the wrong way to walk imo, I rather see the class nerfed and let the nonbotters take a hit for it, assassins deserve it, no other class but assassins have caused this anyway.

 

[[SC]Tzikas[Mid]]

Hahaha, lol @ assassins whining everywhere. Here, there, VNboards, BarrysWorld, you name the forum, they whine.

Now I ask myself ... why do they whine? Are the changes that are coming going to be THAT awful for them? Ofc, without a assassin of my own, I wouldn't know.

So, I did some research. Started playing a lev50 SB who has NO active RAs whatsoever, and no buffbot either. And since I wanted to see what it was like to be a assassin, I ran around alone. So that makes me ...
a) Solo
b) Unbuffed
c) Without IP

Now, if we skip ahead in time to after 1.56, nothing much would have changed. I would still solo, I would still be unbuffed and hence not nerfed by the evade "nerf" (did some maths with a forumulae some people claim to be correct, ended up with 49% chance to evade based on unbuffed dex/qui, evade 7 and the level of dodger the SB currently has), and I would still be without IP.

Okay, all that settled, I start looking for a target. I see a scout. Backstab him (not a critblade, my very own spec on this SB :>) and go through with the attack. He reaches 5% hp. He uses IP. He reaches 0% hp. I still have about 50% left, so I run off into the woods, restealth, and heal up by the good old-fashioned sit-on-your-ass-and-let-time-do-the-healing trick.

One down, looking good, moving on. Next I go for a caster. Oh gee, there was a challenge. She died before being able to QC anything on me (given that she tried). So far, no reason to whine. But since everyone says that assassins are tank killers now, I decided to try a tank. Run around, find a paladin, ooops, he has 50-odd friends with him in a zerg at mach 5, run around some more, ooooh, there comes a lonely lev50 paladin.

I get behind him. I backstab, I do this, I do that. He fights back like a madman, using this chant and then that chat, god knows what, trying to slam, trying to kill. In the end, he lies dead on the ground before me. I still have about 10-15% hps left, but he has 0%, and I have new RPs. Yes, he didn't have IP, or didn't have it ready, or just didn't use it. But still, I took down 100% of a paladins HP while using only 85% or so of my own. Tank-killer!

Now, Paladins are "teh gimps", or so everyone says. Yah, rite, not going to discuss that here, but to further test myself, I keep hunting. Before long I found a armsman. No, not a 1 RP newly-dinged 50 arsman, a rather well known armsman with about twice my RP, if not more. Long fight made short, he won. Wanna know how? He used IP, I didn't have IP. If he had been without IP as well, I dunno who would have won tbh, since he used it then killed me on his next hit. Oh well, imho I still won, since he had to use IP, which is kind of a "You're dead. You just used your Extra Life!! Do you wish to continue?" feature.

And what is the morale of all this? Guess it is what so many others have been saying. Assassins with buffbots are going to feel the nerf. Assassins who have no idea at all about what styles to use, how to do this or that, or generally anything about their class ... will feel the nerf. Skilled guys like Derric, Trad, Luon, Azal, Durgi et al. will move on and keep killing. So imho, unless you admit to yourself that you as an assassin need to rely on a buffbot and Ignore Pain to win every fight, then you got no need to whine.

Oh, and ffs Hibs, go to Emain more!!

 

[liste]

Exactly right, Tzikas.


Another note, worth mentioning:

it goes without saying, that ANY class who pwns WILL be nerfed. what did you expect?

im from the good ole days. you know, the 2.0 specpoints days. you know, the days when infils could not solo a green con in PvE, and could only do casters of yellow con. There was not alot of us. i remember about 7-8 40+ when i hit 40, and a few 50s.

i remember hordes of scouts though.

I hit level 48, and wham, theres some infil loving. 2.5 spec.

Did i know this when i started? no. did i care? no. why? because i didnt roll a flavour of the month, or a flavour of next-month.


Those who roll a class because they like the look of it, will survive a nerf like this, since the only impact it will have on them, is IP (these people rarely has buffbots in my experience).

those who roll a class to be uber, will roll the class they know are uber, or will be within a month.

1½ month later, they hit 50. 2 weeks later they get a nerf. they whine.


Live with it, folks. Play assassins if you like the class. play something else if you dont. simple

 

[Sarnat]

I didnt know assassins were able to make intelligent posts...

Whats next, less than 30% of RvRing mids are SBs?!!?

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Generic Poster
I think IP shouldn't be given to any class at all!(except healer instas).

Would make more sense if tanks had an 'invulnerability' RA... as in, they take no damage for 20seconds or so. Sound more like what 'Ignore Pain' represents...

How the hell does a non-caster class suddenly heal himself!?
Goes against common sense and roleplaying.

Then assasins should get evade I or II to make it fair.

 

[Meatballs]

give us chain armour then

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Shike
uhm lol, so archers dont need IP??
I got jumped by Iguk some day ago. He didnt even PA me, he hits as fast as me, for 2.5 as much per hit, he evaded 5 of 6 hits and he was solo. Is this right? really? Anyone else but an assassin cant agree to this. Sure I can start to use a bot aswell but that is the wrong way to walk imo, I rather see the class nerfed and let the nonbotters take a hit for it, assassins deserve it, no other class but assassins have caused this anyway.

You are bowman. You shoot things. You dont melee them.
You cannot have good ranged attack _and_ good melee. Choose something

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Meatballs
give us chain armour then

I'd rather have evade 7 and leather tbh.

 

[Shike]

sko, thx to all the nerfs to bows we have large problems to kill stuff with the bow, anyone can kill a bluecon easily, but as soon as we jump a lvl50 we have problems and in 90% of all times i end up in melee.

It was a silly comment u made regarding the quote you picked out. So you really think that an Inf should be 50 times harder to kill than a semitank? Same day I soloed a lvl50pally, but didnt even scratch Iguk.. where is the logic in that? Wake up Sko.

oh and regarding the melee or ranged... I have sacrificed my bowskills quite a lot to be good in melee.

 

[Meatballs]

my ranged damage is shit, i have no runbuff, i dont have ip, everyone can see me at clipping range, im shit in melee, yes Im a wizzy!

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Shike
sko, thx to all the nerfs to bows we have large problems to kill stuff with the bow, anyone can kill a bluecon easily, but as soon as we jump a lvl50 we have problems and in 90% of all times i end up in melee.

It was a silly comment u made regarding the quote you picked out. So you really think that an Inf should be 50 times harder to kill than a semitank? Same day I soloed a lvl50pally, but didnt even scratch Iguk.. where is the logic in that? Wake up Sko.

oh and regarding the melee or ranged... I have sacrificed my bowskills quite a lot to be good in melee.

Soloed pally but could not scratch inf. You should've not be able to solo that pally in the first place As for inf - you got unlucky if you didnot land even one hit. Today was my evade day for instance. Other day i dont freaking evade single time.
And melee ranger, shadowzerk, mercfiltrator imo its perversion - sign that something wrong with classes - i mean come on - assasin not speccing in critical strike or ranger pumping up weapon and cd ...

 

[Shike]

the pally was kind enough to forget to use engage on me which means 1critshot+2 regular shots before he reached me. So yes, I kinda won that fight, not strange since i managed to land 3 shots in him before he reached me.

And no, if I try to hit a uberbuffed inf and he evades 5 of 6 hits, that aint bad luck. Thats what a bot does to an inf. I guess you think that the fact that he hits as fast as me with fairly quick weapons and over twice as hard is bad luck for me aswell?

And guess why so many rangers specc so hard on melee these days, well I can give a brief explain:

Bow is nerfed to hell and back. Misses and fumblerate is extreme and the bow is no longer a reliable weapon thanks to BT, PBT, blockingrates vs arrows and evades vs arrows.

Assassins have see hidden which means that they see us on cliprange while we aint camoed which means we get jumped every now and then. Its nice to offer a fight at least instead of dyin constantly to assassins within seconds. That is, if they are unbuffed of cource.

want me to explain further?

Archers was once RvRgods with their bows and killed everything that moved pretty easily. Now, we have tremendous problems in RvR.

Some say, look at US and see how much RP's those rangers there have, well, Rangers with a bot perform well, simple as that. I guess we will be hit by even more nerfs in time since we still can kill others thanks to the rangers in US.

 

[decline]

Originally posted by ulukin

3. 2 of the 3 archer classes get a speed buff and the other gets a use anytime style that stuns for 8 or 9 sec's (forget exactly).

It's called slam

 

[Svartur]

FYI

Scouts get slam - anytime stun 9sec (If they specc shield to 42)
Rangers - Diamond Back - of Evade 5-6 sec stun (If they specc in Thrust and minimum 25)
Hunters - Razors Edge - Rearpositional 5-6 sec stun (If they specc spear to 39+)

Effectively Hunters can't stun anyone in melee unless they are running away from us.

On the topic

I don't use IP, never have not sure if I will do in the future. I hate when you melee some assassin and when it looks like you are winning *poff* Ignore Pain = dead Hunter

Those are the only times and when some minstrels have IP to perhaps that I felt that I want IP to stand an even chance.
But since it's mostly versus assassins I felt the need of IP I might very well keep my 23 points where they are atm. You get a lot of nice stuff for that amount.

Assassins shouldn't have IP thats for sure. Maybe not archers either but they sure do need it better than an assassin do. But If archers shouldn't have it, minstrels shouldn't either.

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Shike
And no, if I try to hit a uberbuffed inf and he evades 5 of 6 hits, that aint bad luck. Thats what a bot does to an inf. I guess you think that the fact that he hits as fast as me with fairly quick weapons and over twice as hard is bad luck for me aswell?

And guess why so many rangers specc so hard on melee these
Assassins have see hidden which means that they see us on cliprange while we aint camoed which means we get jumped every now and then. Its nice to offer a fight at least instead of dyin constantly to assassins within seconds. That is, if they are unbuffed of cource.

want me to explain further?

Archers was once RvRgods with their bows and killed everything that moved pretty easily. Now, we have tremendous problems in RvR.

Most of the performance increase happens when stats reach 200. Easy to do with baselines. As for fast hits hard hits i believe its natural saracen quickness coupled with cleric in party.
See hidden now is a rarity. After IP nerf it would be much more common, though i dont understand why you complain of camo timer - gimped stealth is enough for detection/breaking targeting in group.
And the last statement almost made me laugh - sounds like playing your ranger is some kind of martyrdom. Roll something else then

 

[liste]

Krolllka, Saracens have 60 quickness, just like britons...

 

[old.Sko]

exactly

 

[Shike]

hmm...

Actually, I like to play my ranger nomatter what I refuse to roll a flavor of the month character just to own everyone, that just aint my style at all. I would play my lvl19NS to 50 then and use a bot.

And as you said, reaching 200 in stats is easy with baselines, what I object to as I said earlier is the soloing infs (and SB's for that matter) that uses bots and rip everything apart. I have no problem with assassins as a class, but when exploited in this way to create an uberkillingmachine that very few other classes can kill, something is seriosly wrong. What cleric/healer/druid with the head on the right place would spec at least 42 in the buffline to achieve the maximum from all buffs except for bots?

See hidden is also more common than you seem to think, loads of mids 99 45+ SB's have it and so does a lot of infs.

You seem to think that its totally ok that one single class combined with a bot owns pretty much everything that moves alone, I dont think so, simple as that. Can we agree to disagree?

Only thing I hope for is that assassins dont become as far from the original as archers today are, and it'll be worse in 1.54 aswell. I just hate to see classes destroyed.

All I am asking for is a fair chanse to have some fun, is that too much to ask for? Travelling to Emain and sneak around and be jumped and killed within seconds without _any_ chanse at all to survive is kinda... boring in the long run imo.

 

[Shike]

I did some searching for comments from Mythic regarding bots and if there was a possibility that they in the future would adress this "problem" with bots that exists and found this comment from Sanya.

"Sorry, I had other boards I had to cruise, and missed the ensuing foofaraw.

So, regarding buffbots, also known as PERFECTLY LEGAL SECOND ACCOUNTS PLAYED ON SECOND COMPUTERS BY FRIENDS, ROOMMATES, AND FAMILY MEMBERS AS WELL AS BUFFBOT DRIVERS (remember, you don't know for certain that a character is a bot unless someone tells you so, so try not to assume): they are still fine. Just as they have always been fine.

I know this new EULA is bothering some people pretty badly. Please understand - the sole purpose of this thing is to allow us to take action against people that want to harm the game. Someone's daughter playing on a computer next to a parent is not harming the game. It's practically a poster FOR the game, and we are perfectly happy to have people like that in our community."

thread can be found here: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=41195036&start=41202721

Sanya have also written this:

"Sanya_DAOC >>>At a certain level, the game assumes that you will be grouped with characters who can cast buffs, or you are a character who can cast buffs. Higher level monsters assume that you are buffed to some degree. RVR combat assumes that you are buffed to some degree. What does it matter that the buffs are coming from a player's second account or from another player? <<<

I dont know where this is quoted from yet though. Trying to find out and will post link to it as soon as I know.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what does this mean?

Well, I make a total U-turn here, I wont complain any more about botusers at all. Use bots, because I for sure will use it since its totally ok with Mythic and they wont change this as far as I can see. I have always been against it because it have felt like cheating, but since its officially stated that its ok I dont see any reason not to benefit from it.

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Shike

"Sanya_DAOC >>>At a certain level, the game assumes that you will be grouped with characters who can cast buffs, or you are a character who can cast buffs. Higher level monsters assume that you are buffed to some degree. RVR combat assumes that you are buffed to some degree. What does it matter that the buffs are coming from a player's second account or from another player? <<<

Thought I've seen this one on daoc.catacombs.com

 

[old.Sko]

Actually a bot is a great boon for exping and money farm.