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lissandra
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- #31
Well using AE stun against a (good) group only helps the enemies, their tanks get a free stun immunity for the cost of a 0.5 sec lag when they are running toward your support.
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Happlo
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- #32
Its not the AoE stun that makes the tougher mid gank groups almost impossible to beat. Its the 2-3 healers with Perfect Recovery that rez each other during fight and the damn shammies disease in baseline. Add Savages into the equation and............
The frustrating thing is that if you had 1fg Hibs/Albs with high RR and good players in a balanced group against 1fg Mids with high RR and good players in balance group, the mids would win most of the time
Sad but true imho.
The frustrating thing is that if you had 1fg Hibs/Albs with high RR and good players in a balanced group against 1fg Mids with high RR and good players in balance group, the mids would win most of the time
Sad but true imho.
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old.Jeriraa
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- #33
Group Purge anyone?
- You ae mezz Hib group... They gp.
- You ae stun them... Determination and resist make your stun last about 3 seconds on tanks and half of the group will resist the stun anyway because it is a mid lvl spell.
- Gratz, you handed out free cc resists. Your tanks cant slam anymore and you made yourself a prime target for everyone.
Beside that like already said: You fail to realize that the normal (not the gank groups) fg doesnt have a high pac spec healer dedicated to cc only with other seers to do the healing. The normal group has a hybrid healer who has to do everything at once. Taking him out means the group looses buffs, doesnt get healed, doesnt get counter cc and doesnt have cc.
Somehow I think Albs and Hibs have an advance over Mids here since there primary cc class is NOT their primary healing class. But thats ofcourse just my point of view.
Now let me do a /random whine...
Hibs are so Uber! They have speed on their main cc class! Their pbt class isnt a gimped cloth wearer! They have the best pet caster of all 3 realms! Their maintank can shapeshift and has basicly 2x IP! I hate Hibs and I'll quit the game if Mythic doesnt remove this f**king realm from the game!
- You ae mezz Hib group... They gp.
- You ae stun them... Determination and resist make your stun last about 3 seconds on tanks and half of the group will resist the stun anyway because it is a mid lvl spell.
- Gratz, you handed out free cc resists. Your tanks cant slam anymore and you made yourself a prime target for everyone.
Beside that like already said: You fail to realize that the normal (not the gank groups) fg doesnt have a high pac spec healer dedicated to cc only with other seers to do the healing. The normal group has a hybrid healer who has to do everything at once. Taking him out means the group looses buffs, doesnt get healed, doesnt get counter cc and doesnt have cc.
Somehow I think Albs and Hibs have an advance over Mids here since there primary cc class is NOT their primary healing class. But thats ofcourse just my point of view.
Now let me do a /random whine...
Hibs are so Uber! They have speed on their main cc class! Their pbt class isnt a gimped cloth wearer! They have the best pet caster of all 3 realms! Their maintank can shapeshift and has basicly 2x IP! I hate Hibs and I'll quit the game if Mythic doesnt remove this f**king realm from the game!
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amazingsteve
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- #34
1.65D debuff gets nerfed. Then SM > enchanter.
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etcetra
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- #35
Sometimes i wish i rolled pryd instead of excal, the atmosphere is so much better here between realms, and even inbetween realms.
Im considering getting my chanter to 50 :x Really want to rvr some here to
Im considering getting my chanter to 50 :x Really want to rvr some here to
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Harm
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- #36
Originally posted by gilthanis
Its not the AoE stun that makes the tougher mid gank groups almost impossible to beat. Its the 2-3 healers with Perfect Recovery that rez each other during fight and the damn shammies disease in baseline. Add Savages into the equation and............
The frustrating thing is that if you had 1fg Hibs/Albs with high RR and good players in a balanced group against 1fg Mids with high RR and good players in balance group, the mids would win most of the time
Sad but true imho.
Afaik, most shamans use pbae insta disease, and that is in the cave specline.
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mastade
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- #37
And that is enough time to land a perfect AE mezz? ^^
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Happlo
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- #38
Yes, if i am chasing a shaman he will use that, just makes it an even more powerfull tool. But if you leave a shaman alone you will find he just uses the baseline one on any none mezzed person. That really makes a big differance to the fight, and his insta is just a life saver.
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Zarmin
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- #39
Mmmm
Don't feel that real problem is aoe Stun, real one is that Mids own 7 types of different CC and, honestly, they play this advantage very well
Don't feel that real problem is aoe Stun, real one is that Mids own 7 types of different CC and, honestly, they play this advantage very well
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Apprentice
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- #40
Re: Re: AE stun - o/p for rvr imo
ROFL... what does alb got ?????
Plz tell.... and a Zerg doessnt count
ROFL... what does alb got ?????
Plz tell.... and a Zerg doessnt count
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etcetra
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- #41
SoS, BoF, Bolt-Range Mezz, Dragonfrang, and your pretty own milegate in Emain Macha!
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thorondorito
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- #42
i played a 40 healer and i aoe mezz/stun fg's (of levels 50) so i think healer is the better CC over de game, again its my honest opinion.
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zapzap
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- #43
Originally posted by gilthanis
Its not the AoE stun that makes the tougher mid gank groups almost impossible to beat. Its the 2-3 healers with Perfect Recovery that rez each other during fight and the damn shammies disease in baseline. Add Savages into the equation and............
The frustrating thing is that if you had 1fg Hibs/Albs with high RR and good players in a balanced group against 1fg Mids with high RR and good players in balance group, the mids would win most of the time
Sad but true imho.
Dont agree lets say even RR groups to begin with.
Then a pefect setup alb group would win every time 1x bof sos is up against mid mele group. Soilders baricade alba chant bof spec af and the mighy savage hits for 60. Less RAs up more damage but a high RR alb gang team dont need thoese RAs against randoms so they are used when needed.
Hibs has the short end of stick I see no way a hib mele group can compete with alb mele group impossible to kill alb end.
Hib mele group V mid mele group possible if no purge up and hib can get CC in first but over all not I pick mid mele.
Perfect played Hib caster group can win any fight but takes alot of practice. Hib caster group with RAs up CC imune 2x gp 8x purge 3x or 2x baod 6x moc 4 or 5 pets enough to keep seers busy.
Easy no but possible takes more work then mele team and people die faster but that goes both ways.
Zapsi
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Maleg_Grumpton
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- #44
Have to say I agree with this, Mid has some nice abilitys and Savages are the best tanks in the game for damage and survivability, in a Tank world Alb RA's boost the effectiveness of Melee groups no end. Hibs can field a half decent Tank team and they will get victorys but against good teams fielded by Mid or Alb - Hib is the underdog.
Hib Mage groups are very very strong, but also very very fragile and also RR dependent (you need those RA's), get jumped and your dead in a second, screw up and your dead in a second. Most Hibs play Tank groups now because it takes less skill / co-ordination to do OK, also if a Tank group screws up they still have a half decent length fight and some enjoyment. Mage groups are harder and more frustrating - especially vs the well drilled, experienced high RR enemy teams.
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Maleg_Grumpton
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- #45
Well if BAoD is used the perfect Mez will last about 1 - 2 seconds also - in a Tank world the only use for BAoD is a CC reducer.
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old.tuppe
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- #46
and so? i rooted one lvl 50 when my rm was ~30, so make this me even better cc?
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Maleg_Grumpton
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- #47
Nah, arguments aside about the effectiveness of CC with Det 5 Tanks, GP, SoS, BAoD and Purge - When considering the CC function Healers are the best CC'ers because they have access to:
Mez,
AE Mez,
Insta Mez,
Insta AE Mez,
Stun,
AE Stun,
Insta Stun,
Insta AE Stun,
Root
They're also in Chain and most likely have the 2nd single insta heal and group insta for defense.
Yep the other CC classes have other abilitys that bring additional benefit to the group but Healers are a nice class which I'd not consider overpowered.
Mez,
AE Mez,
Insta Mez,
Insta AE Mez,
Stun,
AE Stun,
Insta Stun,
Insta AE Stun,
Root
They're also in Chain and most likely have the 2nd single insta heal and group insta for defense.
Yep the other CC classes have other abilitys that bring additional benefit to the group but Healers are a nice class which I'd not consider overpowered.
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vintervargen
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- #48
no but 1button instas and 1button tanks
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Sharma
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- #49
Yeah healers and savages definately one button classes.
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Happlo
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- #50
I agree with what you say about hib having the shorter end of the stick with the current game set up (just go take a look at the more RvR orientated guilds average RPs per week here, its about 2 mil lower than mids and less than albs make too). But i dont think that a high RR mid FotM group with decent players will loose everytime to a high RR alb tank group with decent players.
Think on this, yes you have BoF meaning that savages will hit like a wet fart, but the better groups i have been in usually last in fights between 1 and 5 minutes against tough groups (i've used flurry 3 times in a fight before!!!) and Mids with 3 decent Healers all with PR will give the group even more lasting power. All they have to do is slum it through BoFs timer and then they'll win "most" of the time i'd say.
I do think albs have a better shot at winning them though
But not everytime, not even close.
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Whisperess
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- #51
That's quite funny, 'cause my healer has not got these:
AE Mez
Insta Mez
Insta AE Mez
AE Stun ( level 1 spell for 6 sec doesn't really count )
Insta Stun
Insta AE Stun.
Root ( level 3 spell for 9 secs doesn't really count )
Nor do I have any mana regen-spell over version 1.
That's right, I have:
Mez
Stun
In return I have very nice heals/rezzes and ok resists / haste / celerity. Team me up with a pac healer ( 44/31 - sacrificing 'best' insta ae-mezz for first spread heal ) and you'll live long time. ( 5 dollahs ).
Just pointing out that not all healers have the toys you mentioned.
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Happlo
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- #52
Although Maleg definatly did word it "When considering the CC function". So his point still stands, healers are the best CC class in game if speced for it.
You pointing out that you can also spec for considerable healing power just highlights the fact that 3 healer groups are exceptionaly powerfull And with PR on all healers even more so.
You pointing out that you can also spec for considerable healing power just highlights the fact that 3 healer groups are exceptionaly powerfull
And with PR on all healers even more so.
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old.tuppe
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- #53
wow! all 3 healers have PR.
so far what been some gankgroups, from those 3 healers maybe 1 have had it.
dunno guildgankgroups.
you can llist all cc healer have but last in line is, mezz is mezz, stun is stun and root is root.
you cannot use all 3 different mezzes against same person.
so there is mezz, stun and root.
like we all know? melee stuns is alott better, no resists etc stuff what make effectiviness shorter.
now how many positional! stun mids have in weapon lines?
how long those last?
how many stuns in w-lines? and how long?
how many shield spec classes we have who can slam?
what i see other realms have alott more stuns, whit longer duration in weapon lines, (dont forget castable single stuns what alb/hib have).
only advantage mids have is castable aestun!
maybe healer is best cc in this game? but healer is allso mids main healer and other class what give second resists to midgard, all this candy in 3 different lines, all this in 1 spec points!
if you think this overpowered? i think example class who can debuff me, stun me full 9 sec and nuke me death ~in 2- 4 cast, depends class, is overpowered.
single healer hardly kill any tank, caster by own.
so far what been some gankgroups, from those 3 healers maybe 1 have had it.
dunno guildgankgroups.
you can llist all cc healer have but last in line is, mezz is mezz, stun is stun and root is root.
you cannot use all 3 different mezzes against same person.
so there is mezz, stun and root.
like we all know? melee stuns is alott better, no resists etc stuff what make effectiviness shorter.
now how many positional! stun mids have in weapon lines?
how long those last?
how many stuns in w-lines? and how long?
how many shield spec classes we have who can slam?
what i see other realms have alott more stuns, whit longer duration in weapon lines, (dont forget castable single stuns what alb/hib have).
only advantage mids have is castable aestun!
maybe healer is best cc in this game? but healer is allso mids main healer and other class what give second resists to midgard, all this candy in 3 different lines, all this in 1 spec points!
if you think this overpowered? i think example class who can debuff me, stun me full 9 sec and nuke me death ~in 2- 4 cast, depends class, is overpowered.
single healer hardly kill any tank, caster by own.
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ilum
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- #54
Seriously it makes me think that Hib must use a 30min timed RA to counter an ability available to mid groups at all times.
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ilum
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- #55
Valid point imo. Just think how gimped albs would be if Cleric smite spec was the equivalent of Sorc Mind-spec. Or if Cleric weared chain and had heals and spreadheals in body spec. <shudders> Glad we didnt get that, yes!
Jeeeeeeeeeeesuuus christ ..... :/
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Whisperess
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- #56
Since when were the instant AE-stuns available at all times?
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stroopwafel
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- #57
9 sec? oOoOoOoOoOo
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Happlo
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- #58
lol, please show me a chanter or ANY hib caster that still uses stun in group based RvR with any regularity!!! It barely stops me running in a duel with no resists buff on me!!!
Any caster with root has it far far better than a hib caster with a silly little 0.5 sec stun on a tank.
And with regard to my post that you were replying to, yes i do think that most if not all the high RR healers in mid gank groups will have PR. Probably not all have it up each fight ofc, but its well worth 14 points so they'll have it.
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schinkaar
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- #59
Healer AE stun is only useful in caster grps, and hib still have better caster grps than mid.
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szleynix
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- #60
too much bollox here to quote
reagardless of CC, they all stop casters healing
Mid castable stun? a pac healer will have insta aoe stun
debff then stun? from a hib mage? u're such a stupid nonce. debuff can be resisted the stun lasts (on average) 4secs. It takes 2.5 secs to cast.
So don't give me this shit about uber stun. If u want to duel a mage, duel a Mid mage with 80 secs mezz
You;re talking complete shite, look at your own mage classes, EVERY realm has a caster than can debuff their own dmg type. Believe me, i wud gladly accept root (72 secs) for a stun (9secs). roll on the changes, give me a root and not stun