Help Advice on a friend.

[Raven]

I have a mate who seems to be shutting up shop. He has been out of work for nearly 6 months and I am getting a bit worried about him.

He and another friend moved to another city about 8 years ago, the other mate had just left uni and had decided to stay in Bristol where he had studied (there was more work there in his chosen field)

As the years went by the uni mate got engaged and decided to move in with his girlfriend leaving the other one with the choice of getting a new flatmate or moving back home. He decided to move back home...planning on it being a temporary arrangement. Anyway, that was 3 years ago.

He got himself fired from his job for being constantly late, too many days off sick etc etc He hasn't been claiming the dole and has been living off inheritance for the last 6 months. He isn't thick but he has no qualifications, he has done warehouse work most of his working life, forklift truck driving and the like. Anyway I called in a few favours at work and got him set up with an interview for a warehouse job, nothing fancy but a job is better than no job...I say interview, all he really needed to do was turn up on a specific day/time and the job was his. He didn't turn up so I have been left to look an idiot.

He has had very few girlfriends... there is nothing wrong with him but he has a massive issue with confidence so first I set him up with a work colleague, this didn't work out because he just didn't want to do anything. We then set him up with a friend of my sister...again this didn't work out.

His dad is fed up with him, I quote "I only see him once a day at dinner time and all I get is a grunt, waste of space" his uncle (who is my god father) is worried about him, always asking if there is anything I can do. I have invited him round for dinner several times but he always comes up with an excuse not to come.

Anyway, he is coming up to 30, still lives with his parents, has no job, doesn't seem to be looking for a job, has no relationship. I have tried sitting him down and talking to him but he just clams up or makes a joke of it.

If it was anyone else I would mark them down as a loser and move on but this is a friend of nearly 30 years and I just can't.

Any advice?

 

[Everz]

Why dont his 'rents boot him out? Force the scenario where he has to look after himself.

 

[Marc]

He may be depressed. That said, it sounds like you would have trouble getting him to go to the doctors.

 

[Thorwyn]

Frankly said, the parents need to kick him out of their house, so has to take care of a new home. No safe, warm spot at the fire, no free daily noms, no more "hotel mama´s inn". It might look cruel and harsh, but he has to learn a lesson and apparently he´s unable to understand that lesson in the theory class. A good kick in the butt might be the initial spark he needs to get things rolling.

From your description, I tend to agree with Marc. Me might have psychological and that should be checked out. Then again, chances are that he´s just one of those people who prefer to go the easy route.

In my opinion, the parents are the key to this problem. They need to act as consequently as possible. So my suggestion would be to talk to them and find out twhat they can do. Maybe they can provide him with a new flat (depending on their financial situation)? Maybe the parents can seek help from a professional if they´re not sure why/how to start this emancipation process for their son.

 

[kiliarien]

First of all Raven I think what you've already done shows you're a mate because you've put your worklife on the line trying to arrange a job and family life by dragging a sister's mate along. Kudos for that.

I echo some of the sentiments above - he needs to be ousted from home to get out of his cosy bubble. From what you've said (and this might be unfair just my opinion) it seems like he has always needed a supportive link - first it was his mate he shared with, then as he 'lost' that mate he moved back to the home support. And being at home and being insular isn't helping the confidence to get a gf either.

As you've said he's clearll going ostrich on you and avoiding it even when you've tried to say something which might suggest mild depression - many people have it and cope with it unmedicated.

Does he like a few beers? If he does (and I'm sure you do too) get pissed, spill everything out to him and then enforce what was said the night before verbally if you're staying there or with a strongly-worded note if you aren't. A jolt seems much more likely to work than being subtly supportive because he sounds like he'll always take the safe route out if he can.

And get him to send me some of that inheritance. My counselling fees are reasonable.

 

[Huntingtons]

have to agree with the broad audience. either he is lazy or depressed. I could easily see why he would get depressed, no education, his roomie left with a fiance, his good mates moved out of bristol, got families, jobs etc. and hes stuck in his parents basement.
Have you told him youre genuinly worried about him? if he starts cracking jokes, interupt him and say that you really are serious... and ofc the parents has a responsibility as well

 

[Madmaxx]

The short version of below is, I would have a word with your mate first( this is most important incase he has problems with parents!), then with him and parents at the same time maybe a next step. Try and find out and interest he has and try and get him more involved in doing it could lead to things social and employment. There's always options for getting back into employment and funding for qualifications, sometimes you dont even realise. But a change sounds like its needed.




I'm him just 8 years earlier really for reasons of my own and I would say atleast have a word with him, you probably won't get a straight anwser at first; and the parents to or better yet ALL at once. Do something to get the ball rolling you won't like doing it, he won't like the situation; but once its over you can take small steps to some kind of improvement.

If he's been un-employed for so long he must be on Jobseekers Allowance if not he should be on it, an that qualifies you for alot. Like free bus fares to interviews, paying for suits, Heath like pills, eyecare and even Therapy; and Job hunting groups where they go through how to do a CV an what to do at an interview. It's also quite good since its all people in similar situations, it's people of all ages looking for help into employment (you even get free lunches, and your Allowance goes up just for attending). So much you can get from it ALSO if he's on JSA after 6 months the goverment pay employers to employ you for the first 3 months or so, New Deal I think its called a good way to persuade someone to employ you.

I would try and see what he does in his free time and maybe try a career/job/course that way atleast there's a bit more of an enjoyment factor in it, and the people around him would have similar likes/dislikes. He may not get friends but atleast he'll have an engaging conversation and it would get the ball rolling.

You dont have to do a full on 6 month course or year, 2 year courses; there are taster courses or Drop in days which are 4 hours a session. Which can be free or up to £40 for 1 day a week for 4 weeks. Courses in everything from cooking to astrology so there may an interest he has, an sharin that with like minded people might help and a bit atleast with engaging others. If he enjoys it he could move on to an evening an weekend course for a qualification an then its onwards to employment.

For qualifications thats not too much of a problem nowadays since there's not only weekend and evening courses for careers or hobbys, there is Access courses which are equivalent to A levels and can get you into Degree Courses. The main thing about these is there is always funding available even if your not on benefits, for example me; being 22 no qualifications and working part time(just over18hours or so per week) I can't sign on and get free courses or healthcare stuff etc. BUT being over 18 and having no qualifications of a higher level is still enough for me, that qualifies me for an Access to Higher Education course in ICT (A level Equivalent) which will be free instead of costing £1700. Doing that one course will then allow me onto a Degree Course, since its not for Ucas points its for older or under-qualified people to get back into employment.

My way was being on the JSA working part-time in a crappy Tesco store 15 hours a week that way I dont get allowance from the government, but they still fund Healthcare an College courses or bas passes. Then I did and Evening and weekend Computer Programming C++ courses and an Access ICT course, and finally I can go onto Computer Games Design an Testing Degree course after those courses. Now I'll have to pay for the degree course but the C++ courses usually £200 are free on JSA, and the ICT course usually £1700 is free since Im over 18 with no qualifications. I dont have to do the C++ courses either they are just till I could start the ICT course, and also needed for employment in that area.


Before that I was un-employed for a year, then work listed here and more periods from 6 months to 2 months un-employed. People tried to get me into employment and do courses an that just did nothing at all, mainly because of the situation I was in and I didnt even want to do them anyway. Ive worked as a labourer, In a bank in london, Accountancy, Credit control, Fraud, Sales, Travel Agency and lots of other shit I didnt want to do. That was in about 2 years, I also did Book-keeping classes an Accountancy courses; Travel NVQ course stuff and so on and so on etc etc. It goes nowhere I ended up with experience everywhere but no longer than 6 months, and still no proper qualifications. It's just one big circle of un-employment, temp work and whatever your going through aswell.

That might get you a job but not a career.

 

[Madmaxx]

Whoah sorry for the wall of text I kept adding things, but maybe a bit of personal experience might help; or not but some ideas there anyway. JSA and some kind interaction between him and his hobby or interests should get him into do something whether for social or employment purposes.

 

[cHodAX]

Yep it sounds like he is suffering from depression, he could use some counselling. He needs to talk to someone completely neutral and non-judgmental and just let things out, it is the not talking about fears that often really messes people up.

 

[russell]

Yep - I go with the sick route, something is up -self esteem issues?
Feels like a loser... acts like a loser.. self fulfilling prophecy.
Drugs?
Unfortunately there is only so much you can do. If he doesnt want to help himself, you may have to bide your time until something happens which makes him want to change and help himself.
You are a good friend though Raven

 

[Huntingtons]

you can set me up with your kid sisters friends all the time <3

 

[megadave]

Make the guy a freddyshouse account and he'll be fine in no time!

 

[Punishment]

He needs to be brought out of his comfort bubble yet know he has everyones full support at the same time.

Not everyone is made to be an academic even if they are intelligent, he just needs to find a line of work he enjoys and everything else will go from there.

Been seen as the poor relation in a friendship can be abit demeaning tho so i wouldn't recommend trying to lob a friend of a females friend on him as a person in his situation with no job or self respect will not want or need a relationship until they have themselves sorted first, seems common sense to me.

The most important thing and the hardest thing probably for him is getting the ball rolling, everyone in life will progress at their own pace, but everyone has to start and its never too late ... remind him of that

 

[Madmaxx]

Make the guy a freddyshouse account and he'll be fine in no time!

lol

 

[Raven]

ty all

 

[Ezteq]

Firstly, Raven you are such a good friend, you really have gone above and beyond to help this guy...do not feel badly that your efforts have not worked 1) it's not your fault and 2) it's not your problem, it's his therefore only he can sort it out!

The comfort bubble thing is so right; remember when I was with B2? No friends, no social life, never went out and I was happy with that, it was not good for me but I was happy. Then my bubble got busted (ha big time) and I had to either shit or get off the pot, I had to change or I would of been 100% alone. Only I could of made that happen, for years B2 was telling me to go out, make freinds and have fun but I was so scared I refused and he really really tried but ultimately it was only me that could do something about it. The same is true for your friend, you can try, his parents can try but at the end of it all it is totally down to him and if he doesn't want to there is nothing in the 'verse that can make him.

You have to accept that, it is on him, not you (like you said he is an adult) and it is hard and because you are a nice person you will want to help but you can't (as he has proven by ditching the job and your attempts to get him a gf).

Talk to him, and if this is hurting you you have to distance yourself from him, tell him his behaviour is getting to you (if it is) and that you cannot sit by and watch him destroy everything, you have tried to help and now he has to help himself. You can still be there for him but stop holding his hand he really has to do this himself, it's a bit harsh but you and his parents could actually be preventing him from getting off his arse because you are all being so good to him.

The most important thing is look after yourself, don't let this guy suck the life out of you, depression is a nasty bastard of an illness and while someone has it they are totally blinkered and do not see, not much care, how their actions are hurting the people who love them but it is an illness and it can be overcome, sometimes all it takes is a pill or sometimes it takes a good hard (metaphorical) slap in the face, whatever it is I hope it works out.

/hugs xxx

 

[tierk]

Mate you do what you can for him and try and help him out as much as you can. All the people saying that you should just ditch and forget, are wrong.

Sometimes it takes a really good friend to tell you when you are heading down a road that is bad. Nothing wrong with having a fight with him either, if that is what it takes but be persistent, do not let up on him. If he wont come to yours for dinner go round to his.
If he is truly suffering from depression he will probably not be able to see it himself and needs a friend to lead him to a doctor.

I can count my real friends - known them since i was 5 or 6 mostly - on one hand. I would go to the ends of the earth for any of them and i have to admit that they have probably done more for me over the years than i would care to remember.

Respect to you for all the support you give him, a true friend indeed.

 

[gohan]

Make the guy a freddyshouse account and he'll be fine in no time!

..... i used to be normal




nuff said

 

[Huntingtons]

now youre a superhuman?

 

[gohan]

all i've got from FH is aids :<

 

[Huntingtons]

you got that from choddy, FH was only the means to an end.

 

[Ezteq]

now youre a superhuman?

opposite of normal...subnormal?

 

[Thorwyn]

Nothing wrong with having a fight with him either, if that is what it takes but be persistent, do not let up on him. If he wont come to yours for dinner go round to his.
If he is truly suffering from depression he will probably not be able to see it himself and needs a friend to lead him to a doctor.

Not going into detail here, but trust me on this: if he IS suffering from a depression, being persistant is NOT the way to go. If you do that, you´ll probably force him away from you. People with a depression are often going through a phase of social retreat and come to a point where they want to control how close other people are allowed to be to them. That´s something you need to know and need to respect.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Your friends sseems to be in mid of, or in the brink of, a depression. Stay there for him and maybe try seeking professional help

 

[nysahtyk]

I am not disputing anyone's claims, nor am I trying to discredit the rather well-meaning and useful responses that have been given ...

... but I am just telling you to be careful.

As far as I am aware, no one on this thread is a qualified Doctor and no one has met your friend and therefore simply cannot judge whether he has depression based on your post (which in itself may be interpreted in different ways).

Only you can tell whether he has depression or not. Do not jump into, or assume, things.

 

[rynnor]

Leave him to it - be there for him but you cannot 'fix' him - he may have to hit bottom before he comes back out.

 

[Punishment]

I am not disputing anyone's claims, nor am I trying to discredit the rather well-meaning and useful responses that have been given ...

... but I am just telling you to be careful.

As far as I am aware, no one on this thread is a qualified Doctor and no one has met your friend and therefore simply cannot judge whether he has depression based on your post (which in itself may be interpreted in different ways).

Only you can tell whether he has depression or not. Do not jump into, or assume, things.

Its called common sense/life experience, Overly PC people piss me off <-- See thats an Observation

 

[tierk]

Not going into detail here, but trust me on this: if he IS suffering from a depression, being persistant is NOT the way to go. If you do that, you´ll probably force him away from you. People with a depression are often going through a phase of social retreat and come to a point where they want to control how close other people are allowed to be to them. That´s something you need to know and need to respect.

I strongly disagree, based on personal experience, with just leaving him to it. I had a period of my life when i hit rock bottom.

I had lost my younger brother, i turned to drugs and in the process lost my girlfriend, ran away from each and every family member and eventually ended up sleeping on the streets.

It was my friends - two of whom are Doctors - that nursed me back to a level of normalcy. A gradual process in itself with many small steps on a long road back to health.

I did not even know i was depressed and it took many little tricks on their part to get me to a specialist, along the lines of "oh i just need to stop by a mates house for a couple of minutes why dont you come in." I would not be hear today without that strong support from my friends - all of whom i ahve known and loved since i was a wee nipper in boarding school (30+ years)

Also you must keep in mind that he might not even be depressed but just needs a friends arm around the shoulder, due to a lack of confidence on his part.

The point i am making is that you never turn your back on someone you have known for so many years, especially when they have not really done anything seriously to damage that friendship. In life you can count your real friends on one hand and people you have known for 20+ years are few and far between and it is completely normal to care for and try and assist them in times of need.

It will not always be just you helping them and one day you will need there help also. As in my case one of the same people that got me out of my hole had a car crash in which his father died and his wife was crippled - my friend was driving the car - and he was also seriously injured.

He had fits of deep depression and a massive amounts of guilt and took a long time to heal. I moved in with him for almost a year and spent the best part of another year keeping a close eye on him and his family - twin boys & wife - as they live very close to my family home.

What goes around comes around.

 

[Thorwyn]

Tierk, my personal first hand experience is different. When I went through a depressive phase a couple of years ago, I had a couple of good friends who were trying to do exactly what you describe. They were constantly knocking at my door, inviting me to all kinds of activities and trying to get me out of that state. And I eventually dissed them all one by one, so they would leave me alone, because happy-scrappy-comon-get-out-and-have-some-fun-again-people was the one thing that I did not want to see at that point.

The friends that remained after that period are those, who recognized the pattern and coped with it. They were always there *when* *I* needed them, but they were never overzealous or annoyingly persistent.
Apparently it worked in your case and that´s good for you and your friends. But my point is, that it CAN go wrong and the friends in question need to be prepared for that.

Also you must keep in mind that he might not even be depressed but just needs a friends arm around the shoulder, due to a lack of confidence on his part.

Of course! That´s why I said "IF he is suffering from depression".

 

[Ch3tan]

I am not disputing anyone's claims, nor am I trying to discredit the rather well-meaning and useful responses that have been given ...

... but I am just telling you to be careful.

As far as I am aware, no one on this thread is a qualified Doctor and no one has met your friend and therefore simply cannot judge whether he has depression based on your post (which in itself may be interpreted in different ways).

Only you can tell whether he has depression or not. Do not jump into, or assume, things.

Yes that's right Raven, no one on FH is a qualified Doctor (apparently), but you are!!