ADSL Info

[WPKenny]

I was gonna just post this in the Broadband forum but I think it's pretty significant info, didn't want the general populus to miss this info. Shows how shit BT really can be.

I was talking to a colleague on the phone the other day and we get around to chatting about various connections. He works for BT BTW. He informs me he has a 8 Mbit ADSL line in his home from when BT were doing their testing.

Yes you read that right. 8 MEGABIT!!!

He also informs me that lines are more than capable of holding the signal up to a distance of 3.5km from the exchange.

He then went on to say that he went to various "people polls" and the general concensus was that people only wanted to pay around £15 per month. BT aparently are able to provide this service for this cost and it's still profitable for them.

He then went on to say that the reason we are charged such ludicroous prices for such little bandwidth is that BT wanted to have a "standard" that everyone could meet. So that 2 Mbit cap that you see around is a load of bullshit. BT said that's what service they would provide at the current prices because they wanted the service providers to "be able to meet the standard".

So when you think about it BT have royally shafted us and instead of getting 8Mbit ADSL lines in our home for £15 a month, we get 512k lines in our homes for £40 a month just because they felt like it.

Thanks a fucking bunch BT.

 

[Wij]

Not sure what to make of that

 

[Testin da Cable]

heh somehow that really doesn't strike me as a suprise

//edit: not you Wij

 

[stu]

Your mate is a retard

I was talking to a colleague on the phone the other day and we get around to chatting about various connections. He works for BT BTW. He informs me he has a 8 Mbit ADSL line in his home from when BT were doing their testing.

Yes you read that right. 8 MEGABIT!!!

DSL technology is capable of up to about 50mbit capacity, iirc. There's nothing new or amazing about that - it's just an extension of how DSL works. All you need to do is boost the signal strength. Your mate either lives within 250 metres of his local exchange, or there is a booster switch at every 250 metre hop between him and the exchange. 8 mbit is NOT possible with ADSL (it's VDSL), because the signal degrades. It's a basic equation with DSL - the quicker the linespeed, the stronger the signal has to be, and the shorter the intervals between boosters.

He also informs me that lines are more than capable of holding the signal up to a distance of 3.5km from the exchange.

See above. The limits that BT put in place are the "safe" distances for DSL operation from your exchange. In other words (exactly like ISDN, and sensibly if you think about it), it would be possible to have a line further from the exchange, but they couldn't guarantee the signal strength, so they impose a shorter limit to ensure everyone who gets a DSL install can actually use it. Hence why, from about a week ago, all new DSL installs are Rate Adaptive - your line speed will self adapt on the fly based on your line strength. And, amazingly enough, the distance limits have now been increased, because the line will monitor itself rather than just cut out.

He then went on to say that he went to various "people polls" and the general concensus was that people only wanted to pay around £15 per month. BT aparently are able to provide this service for this cost and it's still profitable for them.

Read the FT more. BT Openworld is a massively loss-making division of BT. ie it's not profitable at £40 a month.

You/your mate should educate yourselves a little better instead of using every possible chance to bitch off at BT. I look forward to your next frothy-mouthed diatribe - "Microsoft and why they are cunts" - no doubt penned from a machine running Windows and IE.

 

[WPKenny]

Quite honestly Stu- "Fuck you."

I never added any of my own facts, I was simply passing on what I was told and added a point of view based on that info. And no he's not a retard, he's actually at a very senior position and knows exactly what he's talking about.

Are you quoting stuff you read on the internet or do you actually work in the industry?

It's not something I "read" somewhere. It's straight from the horses mouth.

Don't shoot the messenger. You've just made yourself out to be a right condescending little prick.

 

[stu]

diddums

 

[WPKenny]

lol. Great reply. Sounded almost as intelligent as your last one.

Once again. Where do you get your info from? My source is reliable to the best of my knowledge. Care to impart where you got yours from?

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by Stu-
Read the FT more. BT Openworld is a massively loss-making division of BT. ie it's not profitable at £40 a month.

BTOpenworld is in the same situation as all the other ISPs in that it has to buy ADSL from BT Ignite which is the one that actually provides the service. If anyone's overcharging it will be BT Ignite.

 

[Embattle]

Its all about supply and demand dear boy and other interesting factors

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by WPKenny
lol. Great reply. Sounded almost as intelligent as your last one.

Once again. Where do you get your info from? My source is reliable to the best of my knowledge. Care to impart where you got yours from?

Been in the indusrty for many moons, and I can quite catagorically concur that stu is talking sense, and you/your mate are talking complete hogwash.

Go back to playing quake3

 

[WPKenny]

I'm sure there's plenty of demand for it. I know several mates who aren't really into gaming all that much but would happily get ADSL for £15 a month. There's no way on earth they're gonna pay 150 quid install and a further 40 quid a month for it though.

I admit to not knowing all that much technical stuff about it but from what I gather they use the existing copper telephone line and plonk special "modems" (for want of a better technical word) at each end in order to fully utilise the copper line.

How much are these boxes actually worth? How long do they really take to install? How much admin is involved?
Does all this really add up to 150 quid?
And what exactly does the 40 quid a month pay for? The electric supply to that little box and a couple of hours support a year?

Pfft. I'd love to get ADSL but 150 + 40 quid a month right now is too expensive for me to get on my own so I have to nag my house mates to save up for it too. 15 quid a month and I'd be there like a shot.

 

[WPKenny]

Originally posted by Perplex


Been in the indusrty for many moons, and I can quite catagorically concur that stu is talking sense, and you/your mate are talking complete hogwash.

Go back to playing quake3

Christ! Fuck me I was only passing on some info I was told by what I believed to be a reliable source.
Get off yer fucking high horses you bloody lynch mob!

/me wanders off mumbling about never passing on any sort of info to anyone again.

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by WPKenny
I admit to not knowing all that much technical stuff about it

The truest thing you've said so far in this entire thread

Originally posted by WPKenny
And what exactly does the 40 quid a month pay for? The electric supply to that little box and a couple of hours support a year?

Christ almighty. Oh well, here we go:

• Backbone bandwidth
• Headend equipment
• Exchange conversions (these cost millions to upgrade...for EACH exchange to dsl technology)
• Network engineers
• Support staff
• Installation staff
• Network infrastructure (don't forget, all DSL folks are on a seperate network to dialup peons)
• R&D costs
• Marketing

I really can't be arsed to go on, I have a hangover. Nevertheless, shut up

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by WPKenny


Christ! Fuck me I was only passing on some info I was told by what I believed to be a reliable source.
Get off yer fucking high horses you bloody lynch mob!

/me wanders off mumbling about never passing on any sort of info to anyone again.

Not at all. As stu indicated towards at the end of his post, it becomes very annoying and boring to see people trying to score a few points and a few high fives with yet another "bt suxx0rrrrrrrrrrrz!!1" or "M$ sugzzzzzzz!1111" thread. In the very least, verify your facts before you wade straight in - it might save you some face next time

 

[Embattle]

Support staff being a considerable cost...problem is when something goes wrong you moan when you spend more than 1 minute waiting and you can expect zero support staff should they ever sell ADSL for £15 a month.

 

[WPKenny]

You might care about "face" in a virtual world but it means little to me. I don't know the people around here on a personal level.

You might be the sort of person that can spend his whole day scouring the net for pedantic little tit bits but I am not. The person who told me should know his stuff as he's worked at BT for years and years.

Now if he was incorrect then my point still stands, BT are muppets.
If he's right, then they're ripping us off.
If he's wrong, then what the hell is BT doing employing him in such a position of responsibility?

 

[Embattle]

Since you don't actually have it how can they be ripping you off...since I have CM I'm not getting ripped off....think you mean its a con

 

[Perplex]

Yes, DSL is vastly more expensive than cable. This however is a global trend. In the USA although both are cheap (in comparison to us) DSL is still more expensive than cable. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[WPKenny]

Originally posted by Embattle
Since you don't actually have it how can they be ripping you off...since I have CM I'm not getting ripped off....think you mean its a con

I don't know what you mean by "it". If you mean ADSL, then no I don't have "it". It's too expensive for me to be able to afford right now and cable isn't available in my area.

 

[Durzel]

There's no way on earth they're gonna pay 150 quid install and a further 40 quid a month for it though.

Then don't. It's not prohibitively expensive given the alternatives.

How much are these boxes actually worth?

A lot. xDSL modems are very expensive (hundreds of pounds) hence the high cost of installation, 12 month contract period (although this is fairly standard practice) and monthly rental.

How long do they really take to install? How much admin is involved? Does all this really add up to 150 quid? And what exactly does the 40 quid a month pay for? The electric supply to that little box and a couple of hours support a year?

The stuff Perplex has mentioned above. Just because you are astute and computer literate enough to understand how ADSL works, how to configure your computer etc doesn't mean to say the other 90%+ odd of people do - trust me, they don't.

Pfft. I'd love to get ADSL but 150 + 40 quid a month right now is too expensive for me to get on my own so I have to nag my house mates to save up for it too. 15 quid a month and I'd be there like a shot.

Elegantly enough that is exactly why it wont be £15 for years to come. If it were £15 everyone would be on it, which in turn would require BT to acquire more bandwidth, support staff et al which would in turn eventually necessitate a price increase. Believe me, I'm sure BT and indeed all cable companies have thought long and hard about the pricing level for these things, they aren't plucked out of thin air in a single management meeting.

 

[Durzel]

Yes, DSL is vastly more expensive than cable. This however is a global trend. In the USA although both are cheap (in comparison to us) DSL is still more expensive than cable. It's the nature of the beast.

DSL modems cost a fortune (some of them are £1000+) whereas cable modems, comparitively, do not. It's a basic law of business - if CPE costs more to buy/install companies will naturally pass this cost onto the consumer (someone has to pay for it).

 

[old.Reverend Flatus]

Why is it that nearly every thread posted on these boards these days immediately turns nasty? What is it with you people that you can't have a civilised debate without resorting to personal insults?

 

[Embattle]

You only have to look at ISDN pricing to realise ADSL isn't going to drop in price much if at all.

 

[Perplex]

Where, exactly, are the personal insults? Please, quote them, bold them, dress them in tinsel. I wanna see them

 

[Embattle]

Must be your agressive nature per

 

[Perplex]

If anything, it's Kenny that started the whole thing off with "fuck you stu" simply because he begged to differ. It's obvious that nowadays if you post a thread with "bt sucks anus" or "ms are bastards!" 99% of people will agree and slap your back.

Our responses obviously shocked the poor lad

 

[old.Reverend Flatus]

Originally posted by Perplex
Where, exactly, are the personal insults? Please, quote them, bold them, dress them in tinsel. I wanna see them

Just look further up the thread...

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by Embattle
Must be your agressive nature per

Isn't that the truth

IRL I am a very assertive and forthright (some say aggresive) person. Some people don't know how to handle that

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by Reverend Flatus

Just look further up the thread...

Err, I have. There isn't a single insult. I said "quote"...not limply imply

 

[old.Reverend Flatus]

Originally posted by Perplex
If anything, it's Kenny that started the whole thing off with "fuck you stu"...

I think it actually started with Stu - "your mate is a retard"

Oh bollocks I can't be bothered, you lot carry on...