abu qatada

[old.Tohtori]

his family could leave him here and move back home. but they dont, which means they support him. and here they get a 800,000 £ house for FREE.

But it's not that simple in a muslim family. Sure to us it's a "just move b*tch", but not to their culture. It's basically worse then death to them.

Not to mention, death would probably ensue also when returning.

 

[tris-]

they shou8ld of thought of that before a)becoming muslims b)marrying a terrorist c)moving to england

look at it this way. if i move to i.e. saudi arabia, should they be forced to accept my ways of life and how i act? or should i be forced to fit into their culture?

the answer is the second bit. if you dont do what their culture says you goto prison, simple as that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

they shou8ld of thought of that before a)becoming muslims b)marrying a terrorist c)moving to england

Now you know that's just silly.

A: no choice, borh there.
B: Might have known that, might have not.
C: No choice again, his choice, not theirs.

 

[tris-]

religion is a belief, you make a choice to follow it. how can you not knoiw your husband/father is a terrorist?

"hey kids, that internet video of me preaching hate. its nothing!"
"i know i was in the news darling, and i was convicted of being a terrorist. its all lies"

 

[aika]

if you think that his family doesnt support his actions, then you live in some kind of delusional utopical world

 

[old.Tohtori]

religion is a belief, you make a choice to follow it. how can you not knoiw your husband/father is a terrorist?

"hey kids, that internet video of me preaching hate. its nothing!"
"i know i was in the news darling, and i was convicted of being a terrorist. its all lies"

You don't make that choice if you're born into a muslim family. Denying it=death, again, most likely.

They don't(necessarily) know he's a terrorist at start of marriage. Then it's too late if it comes up later.

I know you think it's a choice, and to us it is, to them, not so much.

if you think that his family doesnt support his actions, then you live in some kind of delusional utopical world

I'm not saying they do or don't, not really an issue as such.

 

[Raven]

being monitored the way he is he can hardly be dangerous , you think osama call him much to see how he is doing ?

Because hugging criminals and patting them on the back while trying not to hurt their feelings is clearly not working. Society is going down the pan while criminals get treated better and better. If they were given a 6ft by 6ft room with a window and a bed they would not want to go back. As it is they get a relatively comfortable ride. Thats if it even ends in a prison sentence.

I think its about time we started punishing those that do wrong again rather than ignoring the problem, pointless schemes to prevent crime do not work, the last 20 years have proven that. take the poison out of society and let those that do want to get on with their lives without causing pain and suffering live in peace.

Why we even allow the people who hate the west so much live here is beyond me if it was someone calling for the death of Muslims or people from the middle east they would be punished.

 

[tris-]

You don't make that choice if you're born into a muslim family. Denying it=death, again, most likely.

so there is a choice then.
morally its better him and his family died by denying islam than it is for 1000s of others to die because of what he encourages.

 

[old.Tohtori]

so there is a choice then.
morally its better him and his family died by denying islam than it is for 1000s of others to die because of what he encourages.

Gonna quote Eddie Izzard here: So my choice is "Or death" ?

Yeah and at age 2-10 when you're forced muslim culture, nothing else, no choice, at age 15 YOU would probably go "Hmm, hmm, no, i'll choose death over being a muslim."

I'm just looking at this from both angles, and i know hate might cloud some reason, but logically...look at it.

It's not a "1000 vs one family" thing as you would in no way know that then.

 

[tris-]

so what are you saying then?
clarify these points for me

is it right that the government pay a terrorist to live a better lifestyle than most others have in the same country?

if a terrorist was being paid to live in your country with a better lifestyle than you, would you not be bothered?

is it right that people are paying for him with taxes, and that some of these people are families of victims who died in terrorist attacks?

is it right that someone inciting violence against a country, is protected, paid and allowed to live in that same country?

 

[Bugz]

You do know that the religion does not encourage terrorism?

Don't they go against the religion by interpreting religious teachings in the wrong way and bombing people?

 

[old.Tohtori]

is it right that the government pay a terrorist to live a better lifestyle than most others have in the same country?

if a terrorist was being paid to live in your country with a better lifestyle than you, would you not be bothered?

is it right that people are paying for him with taxes, and that some of these people are families of victims who died in terrorist attacks?

is it right that someone inciting violence against a country, is protected, paid and allowed to live in that same country?

I thought i answered those points early early on, this latest discussion was towards Bugz saying the whole fmaily should be killed for the fathers actions.

You can't say that's right, unless you'd return the favor to any family, including your own.

Answers are No all around by the way, i wouldn't be bothered, but i don't think it's right either.

 

[Raven]

You do know that the religion does not encourage terrorism?

Don't they go against the religion by interpreting religious teachings in the wrong way and bombing people?

The religion in its true form does not but these people use the religion as a tool.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not to mention that many aspects of the religion are given from parents at very young age, the more extremist family/strict culture, the more it is forced and "born into".

It's not the same with western, as we have a choice, a culture of choice and people discussing things openly and not fearing their opinion, but even here we can see how the "muslims are bad" propaganda has taken toll, much like extremist religion parents can affect children.

 

[dub]

Because hugging criminals and patting them on the back while trying not to hurt their feelings is clearly not working. Society is going down the pan while criminals get treated better and better. If they were given a 6ft by 6ft room with a window and a bed they would not want to go back. As it is they get a relatively comfortable ride. Thats if it even ends in a prison sentence.

I think its about time we started punishing those that do wrong again rather than ignoring the problem, pointless schemes to prevent crime do not work, the last 20 years have proven that. take the poison out of society and let those that do want to get on with their lives without causing pain and suffering live in peace.

Why we even allow the people who hate the west so much live here is beyond me if it was someone calling for the death of Muslims or people from the middle east they would be punished.

i was commenting on that he was claimed by officials to be one of most dangerous men in the country , how that exactly relates to what you replied with i have no clue.

again i can only say that if you dont agree with the laws that apply to him and you and the rest of the islanders you should work to change the laws , cant complain about the civil service sticking to the law really , or well you can but that would be rather silly

 

[Zede]

We kill him "somehow" or send him to Jordan and he gets beheaded or something, and unfortunately Britain would prolly be targeted by some fuckface Jihadists and murder xxxxx people.

these extremists prolly cannot quite get their heads round how nicely we treat ppl like him - and at the mo crazy as it seems our 'right on' liberal stance may be working in our favor. please excuse me im stoned.

 

[chipper]

seriously how can u defend this twat even logically, if hes preaching hate in a mosque dread to think what hes teachin his kids


the guy is a convicted terrorist why the fuck is he walking our streets, i couldnt giv a fuck if he will get beheaded in jordan, not my problem, ship the fuckin bastard back there regardless. if his family want to stay here thats THEIR choice and regardless of their religion they do have a choice.


would you remain married to a convicted murderer who had slaughtered 10's if not 100's of ppl? and dont hide behind religion theres always a choice even if its not an easy one.

nothing stopping his family remaining here if we deported him nothing at all saying they have no choice is pure bullshit.


if his family are true muslims they would abhor his actions and renounce him as a blasphemer because islam is not an aggressive religion

 

[tierk]

Stuff

I dont think anyone Toht included is defending his actions but rather stating that the system of justice we use in the UK and pretty much everywhere works in this way. You cannot be judged or punished for the sins of a member of your familly. It is what is called collective punishment and is illegal in international law as well as British law. Israel is the only country in the world that dishes out this kind of punishment.

If it was any other way as a example Laddey - think it was him - would be locked up as well for the crimes his brother commited, his parents should also be damaged in some way as well because they still consider him their son. Would that be fair?

These are the things that make Britain what it is today and treating people differently because of individual cases is a bad precedent to set. As someone else asked earlier in the thread can you trust the government to be fair?

Just look at the number of people that have been arrested since they beefed up the anti-terrorism laws for non terrorist offences such as demonstrating.

Also i would hazard a guess that he is probably out of jail because some sort of information /cooperation that he has provided for the security services and this is part of the deal. Anything else just doesnt seem likely

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not defending him, nor his actions, more defending his family.

People fail to realise how different the culture of extreme muslim/normal christian is.

First off the religion is different, there's no "converting" as such, as each and everyone is basically born into the religion. Very few have the opportunity to just up and leave. Very few even want to.

About "would you remain married", if i lived in western society, ofcourse not, get the f*ck out, bye, adios. But if i were a muslim woman living with a terrorist, i really can't say.

Only one judging the "just leave" aspect and how easy it is, would be a muslim woman who has done so.

Also you're forgetting, chipper, the fact that it's installed like a hardcoded program, in the womans and kids minds that "leave the man, you die!".

Now if someone hypnotized(basically) you to believe that if you left your woman, you'd die that instant, would you just go "Oh well" and walk out?

 

[megadave]

what part of london does he live in?