About : Raids

[Bubble]

Oh your running a ML5.10 farm..
Jenkz and his BG will be wanting to kill the mob once for credit.

I don't see the problem of maybe letting them kill it once?

 

[GimpStrole]

Tears - My raids run on Thursday's and Sunday's, if you actually read the thread Monday's raid was made because I did not want to make a raid on the same day where other people have made raids. It says it on the post...

 

[Alan]

Oh your running a ML5.10 farm..
Jenkz and his BG will be wanting to kill the mob once for credit.

I don't see the problem of maybe letting them kill it once?

<bites tongue REALLY hard, and refers to TLW, Rigante , 2.10 of about 2 months>

 

[Cruhar]

it should also be mentioned not everyone checks with FH before organizing a raid...

Stupid, maybe
Should do it, maybe

but they still dont .... seen it lots of times in our alliance, people making a fast ML5 group step get-together .... if a ML5 raid is planned well too bad, if noone have checked FH...

Annoying for the once that have pre-organized it indeed, but thats the way it is

 

[Krissy]

<bites tongue REALLY hard, and refers to TLW, Rigante , 2.10 of about 2 months>

By TLW most would mean a guild raid or 1fg+ not just 2 ppl farming btw.

Shouldnt generalise a guild for afew members, otherwise... well look at albion.

 

[Yussef]

<bites tongue REALLY hard, and refers to TLW, Rigante , 2.10 of about 2 months>

Such a selective memory.

 

[Alan]

Such a selective memory.

Yup funny how the bad things really stick, and Krissys right shouldnt generalise a guild by one or two members. Theres been a noticable change in TLW over the last few months (well from my blinkered prospective) so maybe its time for me to wipe the board and group up a little.

 

[Yussef]

If anything, you guys were in the wrong for nearly wiping us then setting up to kill it when we logged out to safety. Then you guys were having a go at us? We would have let you killed it if you guys didn't go about it in a shitty matter.

 

[Alan]

If anything, you guys were in the wrong for nearly wiping us then setting up to kill it when we logged out to safety. Then you guys were having a go at us? We would have let you killed it if you guys didn't go about it in a shitty matter.

urm yeah ok... whatever Yussef, such a one sided view - PM me if you want to argue this over, im not going to dig up the dirt again.

 

[Yussef]

It's not an one sided view, I've spoken to members of your guild that have apologised after hearing my side of the story. Instead of you not wanting to deal with it, you stop digging the shit up instead of backing out every time.

 

[Jenkz]

I'm not asking people to not run raids because I want everyday to myself.

I need some items from ml 5.10 ... so I decide to make a farm raid offering other albs to get items from Ammut as well, I personally see no problem with that. However, Jenkz has made a ML5 raid on the same day as my 5.10 raid and he posted the raid a day or two after I posted mine.

I didnt actually see Gimpstrels ML5.10 farm raid, as the mods hadnt sticky it when I checked through for clashing raids for my ML5.

It is my bad, entirely, for missing your posted raid. However my raid is doing group steps mainly, if you decide you dont want to step aside on 5.10 to give us a go (if we can!) then thats your choice and I will accept that, as I said on your raid thread - I will contact you on saturday and sort something out.

No need to create QQ over something so simple, really.

 

[Alan]

It's not an one sided view, I've spoken to members of your guild that have apologised after hearing my side of the story. Instead of you not wanting to deal with it, you stop digging the shit up instead of backing out every time.

Sorry Yussef but thats simply not true, feel free to PM me if you like - but this really has no relevance here now.

 

[Naetha]

It's not an one sided view, I've spoken to members of your guild that have apologised after hearing my side of the story.

LOL - I don't know which members you spoke to that made this so-called apology, but it sure as hell wasn't anyone on the raid that you screwed over because of your own greed.

And Krissy - apologies for tarring much of TLW with the same brush - I know I'm guilty of it, and I try not to - I also know there's some really good guys in TLW, it's just a shame the leaders give the guild such a crap reputation, and by that I don't mean you.

 

[Yussef]

Fine, lets tell the whole story here, as you're both obviously seeing it from your own perspective only:

Me and Blaen were farming Runihura, I was dual booting, I LD'd on one character. Loaded it up quite soon after a Rigante member entered the room. This member proceeded to ask us if we was killing Runihura, we replied that we was. Soon after this, more Rigante members ran inside pulling the patrolling snakes. One member died to this, resulting in more snakes coming inside. Me and Blaen decided to log to prevent ourselves from wiping.

We logged back inside after 7 minutes, which is a safe enough time to do so after the snakes have gone inside. We then around 1FG or so of Rigante positioned around Runihura preparing to kill it. We were shocked that you guys were doing that, so we discussed it between us that we would pull if you thought you was going to kill it after behaving in that manner. After our FOP was up, one of your members asked us if that would ruin your raid. We basically thought "WTF", we was there first, we were preparing to kill it, due to your actions we was kinda forced to log out. You then proceeded to "steal" the mob without asking us if you could have an attempt at it.

So we basically argued a bit, you guys wanted credit, we wanted loot. I suggested you join us for credit only, believe me, I would have let you kill it if your previous actions did not occur. However you guys started slagging us off then, so I decided to pull Runihura before you guys did. I then made our BG public and allowed you to join for credit only, whereas we kept the loot. It wasn't the best way to do things, but we were pissed off, that's life.

I can not remember the name offhand of your member who apologised, however I believe we spoke about it on a ML2 raid of Elim's.

So don't you come on here with your bullshit when you could have acted in a more civil manner which would have resulted in no problems.

 

[Naetha]

Lol you're such a self righteous twat Yussef.

I really cba replying to this, as I have a real life, with real responsibilities and better things to do than banter with kids - maybe I'll post those screen shots of other conversations we've had when you've acted in that "civil manner" you speak so highly of.

 

[Yussef]

I.E when your guild chain wiped to Golestandt like 5 times in a row? TLW had a Dragon raid planned for the same time, we cancelled for you, after cancelling a week or two beforehand due to some confusion with your members. I then wanted to have an attempt also that night, which I think is reasonable since your guild could not kill it whereas we could. You was just wiping claiming it was fun, it's not my fault you couldn't kill it then. Some of my comments were immature that night, I agree. However your officers basically zerged me with PM's, I didn't have the patience to repeat myself multiple times.

It's amusing that your perception of the events that transpired are backed up with insults alone. Don't you think that was a suitable reaction from my perspective at 2.10? The mob did not belong to you or us, however we were there first, we could handle the mob, it should have "belonged" to us without a discussion taking place. Your assumptions are off the mark also.

 

[Bubble]

Why didn't you let them pull it once? the mob repops in 10 minutes etc

 

[Yussef]

We would have if they asked, instead of treating us like shit and then going to pull anyway.

 

[Alan]

We would have if they asked, instead of treating us like shit and then going to pull anyway.

Communication is a two way thing - bit hard really when you insist the BG was listen only.

<hands yussef a shovel>

Sugest a mod LOCKS this topic please, before someone says something they regret later.

 

[Yussef]

The BG was put to listen once I had pulled after the argument, so that's beside the point as we used /s for the communication. I don't really care about what happened, you probably think you was in the right, I think the same. However it's not me bringing it up all the time, I'll drop it if you do.

 

[Naetha]

When we attempted our dragon raid TLW had been farming the dragon every night for the previous month or so - was it such a big deal to not attempt it one night, and let another guild have a go? Were you worried we'd be competition to your respec stone cartel? Or were you just too greedy? We weren't "just wiping claiming it was fun", we were trying to achieve something that was admittedly beyond the odds, but still perfectly doable.

Who are you to decide which guilds are "worthy" of attempting to kill epic monsters?

As for the arrogance of deciding who the mob belongs to, insults aside, let's look at the facts: your group of 2 and a BB stood in the corner of the temple at the top where nobody saw you - if they did, they didn't mention it and the raid leaders didn't see you until we were literally about to start, so tbh it's the oh so honourable Yussef's word against everybody else's as to whether you were really there before we started moving in and we "forced" you to log. As someone who probably wouldn't piss on his own grandmother if she was on fire, I wouldn't put it past you to lie through your teeth to get the all important l33t itamz... oh sorry you don't like the personal insults? Tough shit, I don't care.
So going back to your position as the authority on all things PvE related, when do you think a camp is "claimed"? Is it when someone has posted that they're going to raid something on a public forum? Is it when people set off to attempt it? Is it when they're all buffed up and about to pull? Is it when you log in the first time? Is it when you log in the second time? Is it when you arrive stealthed to camp the spot? Is it when the first hit lands? Now you in all your wisdom decided on this occasion that it was was about a minute after you logged in, and about 10 seconds before we were about to pull. Now you can whine all you like about who owns the camp and all that, but I don't think anyone other than your arselicking cronies will argue against the fact that the right to attack the mob was as much ours as yours.

I'm deeply apologetic for not having been brought up in the Yussef school of thought where thought processes like:

we could handle the mob, it should have "belonged" to us without a discussion taking place

overshadow any kind of common sense, logic or dare I say it...selflessness?

At the end of the day Yussef you acted like a twat, and once again put personal gain above anything else. Was it even that paramount that you had to attack the mob right then? Could you not have been a little less urgent to get your uber items to as you say...discuss it civilly?

Bubble - your comments about it having a 10 minute repop - neither I nor any of my raid members knew about this short repop - this was the first time we'd attempted it as a guild and we had no idea of the repop, but neither was it mentioned by Yussef, who you'd've thought would know about it from farming it so much. It seems like his urgency preceded everything - so as far as we knew, he was perfectly happy to screw up a raid for 30 people for the rest of the night. As people that farm ML 1 encounters know - we're always happy to wait a round of a shortish repop if they're already doing it. Like about 95% of Albion, we're quite reasonable people, it's just coming up against that 5% that brings out the worst in everyone.

 

[Yussef]

""As for the arrogance of deciding who the mob belongs to, insults aside, let's look at the facts: your group of 2 and a BB stood in the corner of the temple at the top where nobody saw you - if they did, they didn't mention it and the raid leaders didn't see you until we were literally about to start, so tbh it's the oh so honourable Yussef's word against everybody else's as to whether you were really there before we started moving in and we "forced" you to log.""

The fault of your guild members for not passing on the information after directly asking us. The corner is of strategic importance anyway. When we logged, there was at least a FG inside. Are you all so blind?

You're acting like an ignorant bitch, I would have "allowed" your raid to kill the boss without any complaints from myself if you guys had any common sense or respect. Your raid knew we was there at the time, your raid could have wiped us, I respect that it was accidental, but that's beside the point.

I admitted my reaction to the transpired events was not the best way to go about things, however you're acting like you guys done nothing wrong either, which is a piss take.

""At the end of the day Yussef you acted like a twat, and once again put personal gain above anything else. Was it even that paramount that you had to attack the mob right then? Could you not have been a little less urgent to get your uber items to as you say...discuss it civilly?""

Your guild started using profanities which is what made us pull, we tried explaining that we were there first, the reaction to your actions and so forth. However no progress was being made.

Your whole argument stems from ignorance of the environment of Runihura. If we was never forced to logged out, we would have either continued to pull or discussed it with you and let you have an attempt. Your raid member's comments were full of hypocrisy also, some claimed they were there for credit, so I suggested about we kill it for you for loot and you guys get credit. Your member's arguments then started to involve loot, wonderful!

I honestly did respect you guys trying to do the dragon as a guild. However when it gets on to 5 attempts when morale is obviously going to be flagging when I had a raid force assembled which was ready to move out at a moment's notice to kill the boss. Why keep flogging a dead horse? Also it was amusing that we got told to attempt some other content due to you guys being there. Maybe you should have attempted this other content after the third attempt or so?

Maybe if you improved on your guild issues, such as informing raid leaders of other people attempting an encounter also at the same time, stuff like this wouldn't happen. I'll try to get a server log of this, it would be amusing to say the least.

 

[Chrystina]

When we attempted our dragon raid TLW had been farming the dragon every night for the previous month or so - was it such a big deal to not attempt it one night, and let another guild have a go? Were you worried we'd be competition to your respec stone cartel? Or were you just too greedy? We weren't "just wiping claiming it was fun", we were trying to achieve something that was admittedly beyond the odds, but still perfectly doable.

hmmm... we let you have a go at fluffy... or should I say we let fluffy kill some people for a change?
I was sitting on the south hill watching the show ... and I have to admit I was kinda impressed ... 5 wipes in a row and you guys kept coming back! that takes some strong will ... I would have given up after the 3rd try

 

[Alan]

hmmm... we let you have a go at fluffy... or should I say we let fluffy kill some people for a change?
I was sitting on the south hill watching the show ... and I have to admit I was kinda impressed ... 5 wipes in a row and you guys kept coming back! that takes some strong will ... I would have given up after the 3rd try

Practice practice practice guess the guild has a fair amount of determination.

 

[Alan]

" I'll try to get a server log of this, it would be amusing to say the least.

<hands Yussef ANOTHER shovel>

Be my guest, would love to see exactly which multiple parts of the CoC you broke that night.

While your at it request they pull the log of your conversation on that dragon raid night, Its about time people know what your really like.

 

[Naetha]

5 attempts was it? Well I only recall 2, so I think your memory exagerrated things again, but let's bow to your greater knowledge for now. As for you saying that morale was probably flagging...you don't suppose that the TLW vultures circling overhead assuming that we'd fail had anything to do with it? We can go on about these events all day and night, but we'll post our screenies if you'll post yours - I know I'm not ashamed of mine.

Maybe if you improved on your guild issues, such as informing raid leaders of other people attempting an encounter also at the same time, stuff like this wouldn't happen

Sorry...other people attempting an encounter at the same time? We'd spoken to you previously and you said you'd cancelled your raid - when we were in the middle of the raid you confirmed again that you'd cancelled the raid - so why were you hanging about?

From Dictionary.com:

can·cel: v 1: postpone indefinitely or annul something that was scheduled;

post·pone: tr.v: To delay until a future time; put off.

If you're going to fuck peoples' raids over at least use the correct terminology.

Also it was amusing that we got told to attempt some other content due to you guys being there

Let me go through a concept to you... Someone makes an announcement that they're going to do something that prevents you from doing it. You agree to this and cancel your raid (that was run every night for about 6 weeks, so you wouldn't have thought missing one night of killing the dragon would be such a big thing) /me bows to the benevolence of the most gracious Yussef.
So what do you do for the night? Do you: a) Arrange to do something else that maybe doesn't give as great rewards as you're used to, but is fun to do and an achievement to complete. b) Take the opportunity to do something completely different that night - go out for a drink, watch a film, etc. c) decide that the people you "cancelled" your raid for aren't worthy of attempting the mob, so you breathe down their necks waiting for them to fail so you can get your reward.

As with virtually every other time I've come across you, I'm left with a feeling, not of anger, but of disappointment. Is your life really that shit that you can't do something else for a night? Are you such a failure in real life that your thirst for success in daoc drowns out everything else, so that you have to achieve something at the cost of other peoples' enjoyment? I'm almost at the stage of feeling sorry for you, but I just don't care.

 

[Revz]

It wasn't Yussef who brought this up and all it is going to do is get the thread locked if you can't moderate your dirty mouth.

Is it coincidence that the two examples you bring up here are the two where your guild lost out because of its lack of experience or simple inability to kill a mob? Whose fault is that exactly? You may not believe me but our private forums are full of examples of raids being re-arranged so as not to clash with other peoples but then again you don't see that. You only see the ones where we can't avoid clashing because if we spent all of our time fitting in with other people nothing would ever get done. Even so I think five attempts at the dragon or the offer of full credit for the ML (which is what you were there for right? The BG was made public so you could join before the kill? Are you forgetting this?) is a pretty fair solution.

 

[Alan]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh k..... quicker this thread gets locked the better now IMO

 

[Jenkz]

Relations between some leadership of The Rigante and some older leadership of TLW have been strained for a long while, things wont change, and theres really no reason to dig it up on an utterly irrelevant thread.

There are two sides to every story and neither side will ever agree.. How about just accepting what will be will be and moving on....

i-ron-ic: calling people children then retorting with language displayed above.

 

[Alan]

It wasn't Yussef who brought this up and all it is going to do is get the thread locked if you can't moderate your dirty mouth.

Is it coincidence that the two examples you bring up here are the two where your guild lost out because of its lack of experience or simple inability to kill a mob? Whose fault is that exactly? You may not believe me but our private forums are full of examples of raids being re-arranged so as not to clash with other peoples but then again you don't see that. You only see the ones where we can't avoid clashing because if we spent all of our time fitting in with other people nothing would ever get done. Even so I think five attempts at the dragon or the offer of full credit for the ML (which is what you were there for right? The BG was made public so you could join before the kill? Are you forgetting this?) is a pretty fair solution.

Ok a few things to clarify here... again... which are posted above, just need to read some of the replies.

There were NOT 5 attempts on the dragon, just two, when your taking a mixed bag of toons to try the dragon, some of which have never even seen it then yes theres a major lack of experience... what do you expect ?

The BG that was kindly in place was however set to listen only - you know people need to be in the chamber to get credit for 2.10, how the hell can you ask the BG members to enter the chambre when the boss is low heath if you cant speak int he BG ? (some members had guild tab turned off to conentrate ont he raid) again... how can this be lack of experience ? and how the hell can this be "pretty fair", sorry but its not.

As has been said earlier, its wrong to critisise a guild for the actions of one or two of its members, but Yussef was very un-co-operative, very selfish and extreamly spitefull on both of these occasions, I would be very gratefull if he could get the server loggs pulled so the rest of the world can finaly see this.