A wake up call with regards to mezz...

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Jiggs
i dont blame hib/mid i blame mythic. Another example of albion getting gimped cos we have more classes.

i dont think u can compare a 5.0second castable mezz with a insta mezz.

just my opinion but i reckon insta stuff should be defensive NOT offensive: can do this easy by reducing mezz time to something closer to a minstrel stunn for example.

so say u get jumped: aoe insta and you can leg it. instead we will get 50milllion bards aoe their tits off.

pretty sure this will get nerfed soon enough. and wtf this new bard mezz isnt pbaoe???? its just plain boring boring boring

The insta stuff is shorter duration.,.. but fights last 20 seconds... a 30 second mezz means you miss the fight...

instas should all be short range. .. 1000 max for the single target, 700 max for the aoe...

 

[old.job]

My Bard can't tank melle anything, but of course that was hardly my plan when I chose the character.
As was mentioned before, what looks good on paper rarely works out in execution.
I've got a grp heal who's sole purpose is too pull ALL the aggro on me everytime I use it.
I'm also No1 target for stealthers, which is why you find me running WAY back to sit regen.
I think Mythic are getting it right, all this talk of purge ruining mezz,
yeah like let's see what happens, there is a 30 min!!!!!! timer on that one.
Using purge to save yourself will produce great guild brags, but won't really change the course of battles.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Comparing classes 1-1 is silly. No two classes match, coz one Alb class' abilities are spread over multiple Hib classes and vice versa. Even if you manage to conclude one realm's total class package has a slight advantage over that of another realm, the population imbalance still invalidates that as an argument.

Conclusion: don't whine about class differences. You play with other people playing other classes, and whatever combination of classes you have in your group, there will always be a possible combination of enemy classes to outmatch it.

I still think that as a whole, Mythic made DaoC a well balanced game. If someone cared to think up better tactics instead of blaming Mythic for making their game the way it is, he'd do himself and everybody else a favor.

 

[old.Nol]

i find sorcs boring, thats why i dont roll one.

What exactly is more exciting about a bards diet? I wish I could deal 1/2 the damage of a sorc, I would gladly wear cloth for that ability, my RF armour is as good as cloth, I still get oneshotted. My kingdom for Bladeturn etc, etc.

but we can still say that bards > sorcs. and # of bards > sorcs.

we can also say minstrels > bards. and # of mintrels > bards.

I am not comparing classes, I am saying Albion does have the equivalent CC abilities to Hibernia, the fact you don't choose to use them can be blamed on no one but yourselves.

 

[katt!]

we can also say minstrels > bards. and # of mintrels > bards.

solo = true.
group rvr = false.

 

[Tigerius]

Funny you should mention it. Indeed Purge won't change the course of battles... which brings us to Group Purge...

First of all I feel it's silly arguing classes as they currently stand, we have to include the changes about to be made. As dannyn pointed out, comments like "Well go roll Sorcs then" are kind of ignorant seeing how they get outmatched in CC by both other realms main CCers soon, they get their DDs nerfed, they get hit by the overall mez nerf and they even before that looked better on paper than they really were.

Bards here have been complaining about wearing lighter armor, getting one-shotted, getting targeted alot. You do realise the irony in this when comparing yourself to a cloth caster? Anything you feel they feel it worse.

I don't think Bard is or will be an uber-class, I however think that any form of insta AoE CC spell is a heavy nerf bat against other realms. Bards are superior in number to any other CC class too, it doesn't help things. It's realm balance at stake here, not class. Bard is an attractive class to play, much like the 2 music classes of the other realms are, Healer isn't in RvR and Sorcerer just isn't.

 

[old.Nol]

Bards here have been complaining about wearing lighter armor, getting one-shotted, getting targeted alot. You do realise the irony in this when comparing yourself to a cloth caster? Anything you feel they feel it worse.

Bards asked for some form of "defense", the suggestions were better Armour(in line with other naturalists) working Amnesia/confusion, possibly a snare, at the most PBAOE insta mezz. As stated in previous posts I agree that AOE insta mezz should not be in the game.

Cloth casters have an upside, like the harshest offense in the game. If an archer sees a cloth caster, poor caster, if the caster sees the archer, poor archer. If an archer sees a bard, poor bard, if the bard sees the archer, poor bard...

 

[Cloak_]

Nol you watched me 1 on 1 a minstrel
( you lulled, sure, but i was doing that myself anyway )

 

[Novamir]

so much crap talked in this thread.

first of all, for newbie sorcs who try to play their class down and tell us how sucky they are, refer to Veeshan for Sorc 101 (page 1: mezzing the whole hib army whilst most times staying alive).

FACT 1. a useful hib RvR group will contain a level 46+ bard. this is because those guys give us our SPEED FIVE, aoe mez is the secondary reason.

FACT 2. a useful alb RvR group may not contain a sorc. this is because with skilled players, a couple of minstrels in an alb FG who aren't retarded fucktard retard heads can take out the bard before they can mez, because of no quickcast or insta (as of 1.50). sorcs are NOT 'needed' in most semi skilled alb groups as they make good use of cleric pbaoe, minstrel single mez and aoe root. >>minstrels provide their speed 5<<

FACT 3. healers are too uber fecking nerf nerf nerf



so basically shut up and stop moaning you stupid nobweeds.

 

[old.Nol]

I was also healing you mate, but regardless of that, you solo'd alpha or one of the other good minstrels mate?

An even con minstrel that loses to a bard solo is asleep, or has borrowed the account. Even if we resist the stun, it's not like we can heal ourselves when we fight.

 

[old.Nol]

PS - I can stop talking now - I just levelled up to "talks to much" thanks all who were involved, you were immensely easy to aggro

kthnxbye

 

[Cloak_]

Fully buffed by a good nurt druid I have in the region of 1700hp add to that chances to resist DD`s, thrust resist and my own DD i dont think its that much of a 1 way fight..

Dunno who that minstrel was but i take as many on as I can (usually james/fast in dl lol)

Add to the fact I now got AM (30sec 300-400hp HoT) you gotta be kidding at losing to a minstrel easily?

 

[Loth]

first of all, for newbie sorcs who try to play their class down and tell us how sucky they are, refer to Veeshan for Sorc 101 (page 1: mezzing the whole hib army whilst most times staying alive).

LMAO @ comparing a class population to one (obviously skilled) player. I'm sure Veeshan would be equally as good if he/she played a different class.

 

[K0nah]

Re: ...

Originally posted by old.Nol
that's why I wasn't going there...can you imagine the bitching when they(Albion) discover that?

Fact is there isnt 10^n healers either... what does make healers worse is there fucking instaheals & 2k+ hitpoints/chain. Mythic really fucked up the CC balance in this game. Thinking about rolling a saracen minstrel just to get the 5 (yes FIVE) second cast time down on there mezz. Spose laying down an aoe mezz from stealth does have its advantages tho

 

[Cloak_]

Plus you dont have to be stood still to cast mezz,,

 

[Danya]

Minstrels don't get the dex bonus on spells btw. That's for healers and casters.

N07ABL3, for your minstrel/bard comparison. Buffed by a cleric with reasonable (ie. around 30) enhance I hit 1650-1700 hp. Plus I have more powerful instas, stun, a better weapon spec, and better armour. On average I beat even con bards with welll over 50% hp left. I once fought a red con bard and was matching him for HP (till his friends showed, would have been interesting to see who won that). I think Nol has a point that in a 1 on 1 a minstrel will beat a bard.

On sorcs vs bards:
qc > castable but insta > qc
So atm a sorc should get the first mez in, but after 1.51, albion is screwed (only realm with no ranged insta mez, thanks mythic).

 

[old.Nol]

Can't mezz from stealth, you appear as soon as you start the 5 second cast.

I bought purge, reason is I can use purge, then clarifying harmonies to cure the rest of the mezzed peeps. It works like a charm, 'cept I went and respecced RA's to accuity and mastery of the art(big mistake). In one level time I get to respec and I will definitely chose purge again, even with the hamstring timer.

A clever minstrel with purge will be a nightmare for any bard group.

 

[Danya]

If they don't purge then get killed while trying to cure.

 

[-yoda-]

Originally posted by old.Nol
kedal - is that chain you're wearing? Am I detecting mezz envy?
Enrapturing Lullaby
Range: 1500
Radius: 250
Duration: 30 seconds
Power cost: 57
Casting time: 5.0 seconds

You also have stun, DD, stealth, pet for hire - besides the fact you wear chain, just a question,

The nerfed Smite because clerics were dealing more damage then casters. I reiterate, you cannot blame Hib/Mid because you have too few sorcerers.

if you really think the minstrels enrapturing lullaby is usefull then you pretty stupid . you say u have played usa servers and thus i presume you have used that spell ?
if you have you will know it is just one of thosespells that NEVER gets used in rvr . 5 second cast time ? for a minstral to get in the midle of a bunch of yellow con enemys whilst stealthed. then cast his hugely long 5 second cast time without being interupted its impossible i can honestly say i have NEVER seen anybody use it to effectand i aint never had it be of benefit to me . the above mezz spell will not be used by minstrels due to the huge cast time .

as for ins dd/stun the dd's don hurt to much on a yellow con and the stun length is short "especially if enemy has good resists" . his pets ? lol well yea he can charm some high lvl mobs . but he has to work very hardto keep a high lvl pet . a lot of times im sure minstrels have had there pet go for an enemy then 1/2 way through ganking the mid/hib it has resisted charm and turned on its owner . hence its now the mids/hibs allie .
there hp aint v high and tbh they dont hit very hard minstrels melee is v weak compared to other classes . all the classes that use a weapon style not many of them are weaker than the mins melee . if a minstral DIDNT have stealth im 99% sure nobody would complain about them ..

as for sorcs . mostpeople dont wanna roll one because they are hard to lvl at lower lvls . due to most people being able to kill there pulls easy enough and as stated above sorcs are only in demand for the high lvl groups where the pulls are 10+ yellow-purp mobs at a time . there nukes aint to good either . and are probably one of the 1st chars to die in a battle .and they die fast 1-3 hits melee they die or 1-2 arrows . also as somebody stated above we dont blame anybody about our lack of cc . the class imo is not an atractive char to play . thus most people would rather roll a more exciting char .

 

[Cloak_]

@ Dannyn

I dont think ur dd`s are more powerful at all, most minstrel only hit me for ~100 with each dd but mine hits back for ~200 (seems pretty even to me) you do have weak melle same as bards..

Sure you have better armour but I cant see how you would have that many hp being an assasin class (seen yellow con minstrels 2 hitted by spearo`s)

Add to the fact of RA`s (AM=you wont even get my hp`s down for the 1st 30secs, not gonna include FA/IP as both classes can get that) I think its more of an even fight than you think.

Im not saying that suddenly bards own minstrels just that the conclusion isnt so set,

Mebbe uve met some sucky bards and ive met some suky minstrels

 

[-Lonewolf-]

Woah I go to lunch from work and 20 more posts appeared heated debate

Highlight of the thread has to be Novamir's Fuck retard Fucktard fuck fuck retard...classic had me in stitches

 

[old.Nol]

I am not complaining about minstrels, just saying mistrels got no right to point the "overpowered" finger at the bard

I have been on the receiving end of the mini mezz lotsa times, for some reason it gets used more as a solo tool - the fact that you can cast it while moving is of huge benefit and it's coming off the speed song pulse so you have 2 brief speed seconds to aid in keeping away from the charging hordes. It is probably one of the most underutilised spells in the mini's arsenal, but it is a very useful spell.

With regards to their pets, they don't have to charm an uber pet, even a gray con can keep be a nuisance to a bard trying to cast any spell. Nothing better then a pissed off ex-charmed pet to break a mez.

also as somebody stated above we dont blame anybody about our lack of cc

I was pointing out that Alb does have CC abilities, that wasn't the best way to highlight that point. There are people in other threads , who are complaining about bards being overpowered. Basically I wanted to point out that the same abilities do exist in Albion, and that untill 1.52, bards are no where near being an overpowered class.

 

[Cuthervaen]

hum

Well mids and albs shoudl be happy to get speed and CC from two different classes.

Most important thing in RvR is speed, then u can choose ur fights, if u don't have speed, u not picking, u're picked.

Then comes CC, cause it's the only way you can handle either superior numbers or even/less numbers but have time to leg it before the cavalry arrives. CC is a good thing imo, cause without player/player collisions, don't see what form of skill could be involved in RvR then.

To the Karams and such that will show up saying there is no skill in RvR anyway, there is indeed little skill in playing ur char (most skill is in playing casters/CC chars and some different type of skill in playing assassins imo, doesn't take much time to learn the do's and don't of a tank), then most of the skill comes from driving a group around accuratly or coordinating the actions of several groups (in slighty more elaborate patterns than "all stick leader, no speed, we zerg").

An alb group with minstrel plus cleric and without sorcerer can very well beat an hib group with one bard. They got speed so they can have RvR, minstrel has limited CC (not saying it's uber in any way) and so does cleric.

On a same note, mids groups with only skald can run around and get good loners kills (ask Madelaine) of course they need Healers more even cause Healing is there too.

Hib group without Bard would gain much time by directly taking a horse from Ligen to Mbeo instead of jogging to Emain, cause they'll end there anyway and not with much more rps than those they started with usually.

So basically in Hib, no bard = you stay at ligen, unless you can join a keep attack/defence/wall camping (doh wall camping, until next wall wipe)

Should explain why there are so many bards in hib rvr groups... And not more hibs in RvR alltogether.

But ultimately, an alb group with Minstrel + Sorcerer + Cleric is VERY deadly, you got CC from 3 different sources, each having an insta or quickcast to get out of tank contact in emergency situations, it's hard to take primary targets first when there is 3 of them.

SO you see they're pros and cons on every side, I think it's pretty balanced atm (just bring back champs debuffs to pre patch power Mythic please and I'll be happy ).

Beside server population which rules who zergs who at certain times, best comparison of power/skill is by pitting 1fg vs 1fg imo, and so far I found it pretty even. Used to find mids much harder than albs, but recently I seen kickass alb groups running around (you know who you are, too bad you seem to be mainly running with 2 fg rather than one now, makes for even shorter times in the day when we can hope for good fights). Certainly got something to do with the growing number of Sorcs. Albs be patient when they moan about their class, you know you need them and we have the same pb with our bards .

So either realm, stop moaning, balance your groups, furbish your weapons and let's try to have good 1 fg vs 1 fg fights to keep ourself entertained (and I'm getting close to RR6 now so please come, I still need ur help ).

 

[old.Nol]

RA's are going to make confrontation's more interesting, minstrels have some lovely chit too - like speed of sound, avoid pain, hail of blows plus some. Regardless of that, as long as a minstrel wears chain, and a bard wears RF, my money is on the minstrel. When insta mezz comes it might help a bit, so you can heal up halfway in a fight, but then again, the minstrel may have purge :/

We will see in 1.52

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by N07ABL3
@ Dannyn

I dont think ur dd`s are more powerful at all, most minstrel only hit me for ~100 with each dd but mine hits back for ~200 (seems pretty even to me) you do have weak melle same as bards..

Sure you have better armour but I cant see how you would have that many hp being an assasin class (seen yellow con minstrels 2 hitted by spearo`s)

Add to the fact of RA`s (AM=you wont even get my hp`s down for the 1st 30secs, not gonna include FA/IP as both classes can get that) I think its more of an even fight than you think.

Im not saying that suddenly bards own minstrels just that the conclusion isnt so set,

Mebbe uve met some sucky bards and ive met some suky minstrels

Re DDs, I showed in another thread that minstrels have the best DDs, with bards next and skalds last. That's over time though. Minstrels and skalds get a bonus from having 2 DDs so being able to frontload their damage. On the ~100 each vs ~200, I'd guess there's some relic action going on there because the top minstrel and bard DDs are both 114 base damage (with minstrel also getting a 92 base damage on a separate timer). Mine tend to hit for about 400 combined for the pair (with 3 power relics).

As for HP, I'm not particularly uber equipped for HP, I have 1260 unbuffed with drum, about 1285 with my sword and shield. Like I said, buffed I'm getting up near 1700. Spear hits = about 300-350, anyone you see getting two shotted doesn't have particularly good equipment on (epic armour helps )

Melee, minstrels tend to have much better weapon spec than bards, hence melee better, pretty much all minstrels have at least 29 spec weapon, 39 is probably more common. By constrast most bards probably don't get above 10 in weapon spec. That makes a difference.

Haven't met a bard with AM yet to know how that affects me, if needed though I could run off and stealth then hit them again when it expires. I'm not sure if I read you right but 300-400 hp healed over 30 secs isn't really going to stop a minstrel killing you. The initial strike off a minstrel is going to be at least 300-400 damage (2xdd and sword), generally the dd, dd, mez, dd, dd, stun, melee combo is used and you're looking at more like 600-1000.

 

[Arthwyr]

http://www.camelot-seer.com/classes/rp50.php?x=8

Check the color bias on the stats, is it me or does the bottom look a bit reddish ... ofcourse its the combined stats of all the doac servers combined and albion obviously gets the less gifted players all over the world since the realms are even (classwise)

In order to get to hib/mid CC players our greatly superior tanks (albion is the uber realm that zergs all the time anyhow) have to reach the CC players ... after we pass the berserking and moosing tank line who all have 50 in their main weapon spec (sure alot of albs dont have max damage cause it requires them to spec 2 speclines to max) we have to get by the druids, runemasters, skalds, elf, spiritmaster, shaman, whatever root/stun (stun being insta or not) this only ofcourse if we did not get mezzed and nuked to death by some void eldritch/runemaster before we even got close to bards/healers. Once we do get to them all you stupid elves have to do is start pboae nig while our (greatly superior tanks) take down your mezzers healers. So what would I do in your case if albs won an occasional group battle yes ofcourse, use superior tactics (thats what you call em if you use em, if we do you just call it zerg)

This is an awser to a whine post, I hope it makes you see how stupid the whining is, if anyone should whine here it should be albs and they should be whining at mythic not at hibs/mids. Have fun and enjoy the game, I have a gimp and I do maybe you uber ppl should do too.

 

[Cloak_]

AM is a 30sec HoT with it TICKIN at 300-400 per tick so ya talkin mebbe 2000hp regen over 30 secs

O yea just while I lded thought id post some tests,,

Just had fight with Dejavu (no idea what lvl but yellow con) and yes ur dd`s are slightly more powerfull,, her 2 dd`s hit me for 133dmg each while mine had 186(-13),

Still AM+FA (in middle of shit lds of albs at amg) and 255rp 8bp later 1 dead minstrel (this was AFTER a feckin blue infil double stabbed me puttin all that poison crap on me )

O yea how u gonna stealth when I can stop u from doin that with lul?

Sure a minstrel shud win but a well played bard it shud be a lot closer fight

 

[old.Nol]

...

This is an awser to a whine post, I hope it makes you see how stupid the whining is, if anyone should whine here it should be albs and they should be whining at mythic not at hibs/mids.

The original post is not a whine, it's aimed at the arses in other threads that cannot focus past bard CC and just play the damned game. I see no reason why anyone should whine, not even the gimped classes. If Hib was such a nice place to be, howcome some many people have rolled in Alb?

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by N07ABL3
O yea how u gonna stealth when I can stop u from doin that with lul?

The words "Target is out of range" mean anything to you? Minstrels can move a lot faster directly out of a fight with SoS than bards.

As for AM, yes that would make a difference, but like I say, I'd just back off till it ran out.

 

[sorusi]

Bards arent overpowred NOW, but with insta mezz they will be...

ALL insta dds/snare/debuffs etc (that interrupt/hurt) should be range 700.

ALL insta mezz/dmg should be pbaoe only.


Bards arent overpowred at all now, but you got one thing wrong Sorcs usually dont get 400 on radius - its only if they specc 44 in mind (huge waste of points, specc from 34 -> 44 and only get 50 more radius, deserves a big LOL).

Healers on otherhand should loose their insta mezz, they can keep the stun