A wake up call with regards to mezz...

[old.Nol]

I have been reading loads of rubbish about bards being overpowered on this forum, and it is focussed at our CC abilities. I just wanted to point out a few things with regards to CC.

Lets compare 2 spells - bard CC and Sorcerer CC(not even going near middy CC abilities, cos it makes me want to cry)

Bard Mezz Spell
Captivate Legions
Mesmerizes the target. Attacking the target will break the spell.
Resist type: Body
Range: 1500
Radius: 350
Duration: 1 minutes, 10 seconds
Power cost: 27
Casting time: 3.0 seconds

Sorcerer
Shroud of Senility
Mesmerizes the target. Attacking the target will break the spell.
Resist type: Energy
Range: 1500
Radius: 400
Duration: 1 minutes, 12 seconds
Power cost: 21
Casting time: 3.0 seconds

Range is equal, radius the Sorcerer gets an extra 50, sorcerer's spell last 2 seconds longer and also costs less power to cast. Casting time is exactly the same. but for one small, minor thing - QUICKCAST.

On every day of the week, a bard gets his/her/giant hairball ass kicked by a sorcerer. So there are more bards in hib then sorcerers in alb, you can only blame your own realm for that. If one half of you bitchers went and rolled sorcerers instead of complaining, maybe mezz would be an aid to your realm.

Right now bard is not anywhere near the CC ability of a sorcerer.

The bone of contention comes in FUTURE patches, and this is it

Entrancing Harmony
Mesmerizes the target. Attacking the target will break the spell.
Resist type: Body
Target: Enemy Target
Range: 1500
Radius: 300
Duration: 31 seconds
Power cost: 30
Casting time: Instant
Recast time: 600 seconds

Quite frankly I think it is stupid to give any realm insta mezz aoe/pbaoe and most of the bards out the would be happy to have a working lull or confusion spell, which could be used as a defense. Bards use weaker armour (reinforced leather) then any other naturalist class and have no defense against any class in the game besides mezz.

Right now, complaining that bards are overpowered is basically sour grapes because you have been mezzed.

 

[Release]

Healers already get insta AE stun/mez, isnt it lovely

 

[old.Nol]

...

that's why I wasn't going there...can you imagine the bitching when they(Albion) discover that?

 

[)nick(]

The problem isn't the capabilities of each primary croud control class in the realm. It all boils down to numbers, and that is what we lack when it comes down to our primary cc-ers. Almost every group in hibbie that sets out to emain has a bard in their group or else it would take them an eternity to get there, and every mid group has a healer - because... well they heal

 

[old.Nol]

The fact that Albion has to few sorcerers is not something that can be blamed on hib/mid. Decent CC is easily within your grasp, just up to a few of you to take the bait. Seems as though certain people would rather bitch about how "superior" bards are then sort it out.

Quit blaming bards, blame yourselves.

 

[Jiggs]

bard numbers v sorcerer numbers

imo thats why they nerfed smite: so many clerics. But you look at cleric rps, its hardly uber is it?

+not many sorcerer want to spec that high in mind (the largest aoe is at 44mind) cos nukes/roots not so great then

 

[-Lonewolf-]

Leave the bards alone and let em mezz they can hardly do anything else, poor guys

 

[katt!]

add to the fact that sorcs get cloth, not even leather and 1.0 points while bards get 1.5.

 

[Loth]

Bards have MUCH more to offer a group during the levelling grind than a Sorceror (buff,heal,rez) which may explain why there are so many of them.

Sorcs only seem to be wanted during the big BAF pulls (Tanglers etc) which doesn't happen until mid-thirties. Lots of new Sorcs quit by the time they are 30 ....

Also, this Mez comparison. For a Sorc to get the 400 radius Mez he has to spec 44 points into Mind - kind of makes him a one-trick pony

To even get the comparable 350 radius of the Bard, the Sorc has to spend 34 points in Mind - Bards get the 350 radius as soon as they receive their AE mez (at level 10).

We also have paper armour, I get 1 shotted all the time.

So who wants to roll up a Sorceror to help their Realm ? .......ahh thought not

 

[old.Nol]

kedal - is that chain you're wearing? Am I detecting mezz envy?
Enrapturing Lullaby
Range: 1500
Radius: 250
Duration: 30 seconds
Power cost: 57
Casting time: 5.0 seconds

You also have stun, DD, stealth, pet for hire - besides the fact you wear chain, just a question, have you ever lost a 1 on 1 to a bard?

Depending on their spec line Sorcerers also get DD, DoT, buffs, debuffs, resist debuffs, charm, lifedrain, amnesia, confusion, speed, absorb, bladeturn, shield snares etc...

I have no idea why people in Albion don't roll sorcerers, they have a huge selection of awesome pvp and rvr spec lines.

Jiggs - The nerfed Smite because clerics were dealing more damage then casters. I reiterate, you cannot blame Hib/Mid because you have too few sorcerers.

 

[idril_daoc]

sorcs have to specc 2 lines mess and dmg..
bards have to specc 4 nurture(speed end mana) music(dd mess confuse) regrowth(heals) weapon

so you mean that bards should olny get 1.0 instead of 1.5 ... your a fucking minstrel go play it and have fun with that char instead of just coming with st00pid remarks

 

[idril_daoc]

Originally posted by old.Nol
kedal - is that chain you're wearing? Am I detecting mezz envy?
Enrapturing Lullaby
Range: 1500
Radius: 250
Duration: 30 seconds
Power cost: 57
Casting time: 5.0 seconds

You also have stun, DD, stealth, pet for hire - besides the fact you wear chain, just a question, have you ever lost a 1 on 1 to a bard?

Depending on their spec line Sorcerers also get DD, DoT, buffs, debuffs, resist debuffs, charm, lifedrain, amnesia, confusion, speed, absorb, bladeturn, shield snares etc...

I have no idea why people in Albion don't roll sorcerers, they have a huge selection of awesome pvp and rvr spec lines.

Jiggs - The nerfed Smite because clerics were dealing more damage then casters. I reiterate, you cannot blame Hib/Mid because you have too few sorcerers.

you forgot they get AOE root aswell as mess

 

[Loth]

Sorcs look great on paper, the reality is a little different.

Debuffs - pretty useless, not even on my RvR quickbar.

DD's - if specced for the 400 mez, the spec DD sucks. The baseline Lifetap,while useful, is a real power drain.

DoT's - can be useful for casters, but quite situational. Faster to DD them.

Confuse - doesn't work in RvR, except on Guards and enemy pets.

Amnesia - good for interupting Archers, bolters - usually gets me Nearsighted

Pets - basically a fire-and-forget DoT, or a big target saying 'Here's the Mezzer!'

I love my Sorc, but we need a few 'tweaks' for our role as the Primary Mezzer of Albion.

 

[old.Filip]

Man Nol for some time ago i desided you was to stupon (hate to say stupid) to reason with ...

We dont say hibs/mids are the reason we have to few sorc....

You and some other just claimed you was so and so uber and in equal numbers Hibs allways won etc ..

then we say .. well we dont have the CC you got ...

no matter what you say or whine or what ever you cant change the fact we dont have as many CC's in rvr as you do ... and CC's is ruling rvr ...

the more you speak the more you convince me that you only can see things from your own point of view ..

and shouldnt the fact that minstrels get that crappy AE mezz (5 sec) give you a hint that albs lack some CC ?

 

[old.Nol]

Loth - I get one shotted all the time too, ask aussie. Besides that Captivate Army (36 Music spec) is the first RVR usefull AOE mezz we get. Standard bard spec - highest heal is Major Regrowth a 145 hp heal, so our heals, although usefull are not massive and not instant, there is no ways a bard can solo heal in a group unless they spec regrow to the detriment of nurture and music(the 2 primary bard lines)

We can rez...WHOOP! To rez, you have to keep still, i.e. stop moving - try stop moving as a bard, you'll live for about 3 seconds in RvR.

People should be gagging to group with you in RvR, and if you realmies are not going to drag you through the hard levels, then they can keep bitching on the boards.

 

[Loth]

We can rez...WHOOP! To rez, you have to keep still, i.e. stop moving - try stop moving as a bard, you'll live for about 3 seconds in RvR.

We can Mez...WHOOP! To Mez, you have to keep still, i.e. stop moving - try stop moving as a Sorceror, you'll live for about 3 seconds in RvR.

 

[Jiggs]

i dont blame hib/mid i blame mythic. Another example of albion getting gimped cos we have more classes.

i dont think u can compare a 5.0second castable mezz with a insta mezz.

just my opinion but i reckon insta stuff should be defensive NOT offensive: can do this easy by reducing mezz time to something closer to a minstrel stunn for example.

so say u get jumped: aoe insta and you can leg it. instead we will get 50milllion bards aoe their tits off.

pretty sure this will get nerfed soon enough. and wtf this new bard mezz isnt pbaoe???? its just plain boring boring boring

 

[old.Nol]

Man Nol for some time ago i desided you was to stupon (hate to say stupid) to reason with ...

We dont say hibs/mids are the reason we have to few sorc....

You and some other just claimed you was so and so uber and in equal numbers Hibs allways won etc ..

then we say .. well we dont have the CC you got ...

no matter what you say or whine or what ever you cant change the fact we dont have as many CC's in rvr as you do ... and CC's is ruling rvr ...

the more you speak the more you convince me that you only can see things from your own point of view ..

and shouldnt the fact that minstrels get that crappy AE mezz (5 sec) give you a hint that albs lack somme CC ?

I am not going to have a go at your intelligence, you however, are entitled to consider me stupid if it pleases you.

I have supplied details with regards to the CC capabilities of Albion, what exactly have you done besides call me "stupon"?

I never mentioned the Minstrel as Albions primary CC class, In case you missed it, I was talking about the sorcerer, the minstrel is an added bonus.

 

[old.Filip]

answer me on this ... when you win a FG battle against a FG who dont have CC .. does that make you uber ?

 

[old.Nol]

We can Mez...WHOOP! To Mez, you have to keep still, i.e. stop moving - try stop moving as a Sorceror, you'll live for about 3 seconds in RvR.

Oh, and there was me thinking bards could mezz on the run...DOH!

i dont think u can compare a 5.0second castable mezz with a insta mezz.

Bards do not have insta mezz - we will in 1.52, and I agree, in my "stupon" opinion(IMsO) AOE insta mezz is overpowered. My issue is with people calling bards overpowered, when it's pretty damn obvious better CC abilities exist in their own realm.

I want just one class to post here and tell me how they were solo'd by a bard - just one even con.

 

[old.Nol]

answer me on this ... when you win a FG battle against a FG who dont have CC .. does that make you uber ?

and you call me stupon...

 

[old.Filip]

Answer

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by old.Filip
answer me on this ... when you win a FG battle against a FG who dont have CC .. does that make you uber ?

Answer me on this.. When you know that albion has almost no CCers... Why does that not ring a bell that you maybe should MAKE ONE INSTEAD OF WHINING?

Edit: Same to you nicolas, your an infiltrator, arguably the hardest class to level in the game(shared with nightshades and shadowblades), so why didnt you roll a sorcerer if you need them so badly? hmm? oh NO!! i dont want to help my realm!!! I WANT TO BE UBER!!!!

Watch out! here comes the whaaaambulance!

 

[old.Nol]

answer me on this ... when you win a FG battle against a FG who dont have CC .. does that make you uber ?

What is there to anser to? this is possibly the stupidest question I have seen on this forum. Imbalanced groups will always lose regardless of whether there is CC or not. Would a FG of bards beat a FG of armsman?

The current bard mezz is a cast, therefore it can be broken, it cannot be quickcast. I have lost lots of battles against Alb FG's without 3 sec CC ability.

 

[old.Filip]

Weee thx ..

So plz stop thinking hib players are so uber ... and yes we do have a sorc for time to time and then we in most cases own hibs

in most cases the classes ppl play means more than what skill they got ...

and when hibs got more bards at 40+ rr3+ than albs does (even though we got a hgh'er pop) it must give a hint that bards offer something sorcs dont..

 

[old.Nol]

Weee thx ..

So plz stop thinking hib players are so uber ... and yes we do have a sorc for time to time and then we in most cases own hibs

in most cases the classes ppl play means more than what skill they got ...

and when hibs got more bards at 40+ rr3+ than albs does (even though we got a hgh'er pop) it must give a hint that bards offer something sorcs dont..

Exactly where in this thread have I said Hib classes are uber? Are you even reading the same thread? In case you missed it, I was pointing out the fact that bards are NOT uber.

We probably do, and whose fault is that? Following your logic, it would indicate that the average Hib cares more about their realm, then the average Alb, as we put the well being of our realm before our own RP's.

I fail to see how the numbers of a chosen class indicate their "uberness", it's not like bards outnumber the class population of hib.

Alb has a muzzillion amrsman, they must be UBER.

 

[Danya]

Why roll a sorc? You have a huge bundle of nerfs to look forward to with nothing given in return, not exactly a rewarding experience.
As someone (Landshark possibly) said, from 1.50 onwards it's all downhill, Mythbernia doesn't want Albion to be good, they want people to switch to other realms to balance the servers, thing is people don't want another 50 levels of xping, they want the class they rolled originally.
As for healers, yes their CC puts bards to shame, but they only really have CC, bards combine CC with probably more group tools than any other class (speed, end, power songs, small heals, rez) hence their popularity. Also the healers all get pissed at the thanes/RMs and quit RvR.

Also, no, I've never lost a 1 vs 1 to a bard

 

[old.Nol]

dannyn - On the flipside, minstrels have great solo abilities, with a few nice group adds thrown in.

At what point did bards become the UBER class of DAOC? have I missed something? We are not at 1.52 yet (although I have played it on the american servers) I have 2 minstrels one on Kay and one on Merlin and TBH, playing a minstrel is so much more fun.

 

[katt!]

read below

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by old.Nol
kedal - is that chain you're wearing? Am I detecting mezz envy?
Enrapturing Lullaby
Range: 1500
Radius: 250
Duration: 30 seconds
Power cost: 57
Casting time: 5.0 seconds

i could care less about aoe mez, not specced for it anyway.

You also have stun, DD, stealth, pet for hire - besides the fact you wear chain, just a question, have you ever lost a 1 on 1 to a bard?

blabla, i was comparing sorcs to bards, not minstrels to bards.

Depending on their spec line Sorcerers also get DD, DoT, buffs, debuffs, resist debuffs, charm, lifedrain, amnesia, confusion, speed, absorb, bladeturn, shield snares etc...

and bards get powersong, end song etc.

I have no idea why people in Albion don't roll sorcerers, they have a huge selection of awesome pvp and rvr spec lines

i find sorcs boring, thats why i dont roll one.

Jiggs - The nerfed Smite because clerics were dealing more damage then casters.

they did not deal more damage than casters, it has been proven a thousand times. it was because stun mez chain instaheals buffs etc.

I reiterate, you cannot blame Hib/Mid because you have too few sorcerers.

but we can still say that bards > sorcs. and # of bards > sorcs.