A sad day

[Mabs]

How many things do you own that you have no requirement for?

Since when was 'requirement' a pre-requisite for owning something?

total number of things i own that i dont need, that i could use to kill lots of people...

ZERO

next question ?

 

[DaGaffer]

And the percentage of the world's population that are as rich as Americans is?

Totally with Throddy here. Internet experts ftw!

And wealth has what to do with this exactly? For a start there are a lot more Europeans than Americans with a shitload less gun crime, and Euros are as rich or richer than Yanks. Its not rocket science ffs.

 

[throdgrain]

How many things do you own that you have no requirement for?

Since when was 'requirement' a pre-requisite for owning something?

Precisely, like it even needs to be said. Murder is illegal. Guns are not. (In the USA at least).

Neither are house bricks, or steak knives, or, indeed, very highly sharpened cheese graters.

 

[Mabs]

Precisely, like it even needs to be said. Murder is illegal. Guns are not. (In the USA at least).

Neither are house bricks, or steak knives, or, indeed, very highly sharpened cheese graters.

aah but the whole point is the Corpse Per Minute rating !
you can kill more people with an AK74 in 60 seconds than you can with a cheese graters, unless you're Kali

 

[throdgrain]

FFS man how many times do I have to say most states dont allow full auto guns

 

[DaGaffer]

Neither are house bricks, or steak knives, or, indeed, very highly sharpened cheese graters.

Right. Try taking out 25 people in a school with any of the above. It'll be interesting to watch, I'll say that. I particularly look forward to "death by cheese grater".

 

[Mabs]

FFS man how many times do I have to say most states dont allow full auto guns

yeah i understand that. which is a bit cretinous tbh. remove state law and have one for the whole country, if you didnt want to be ruled by a central government you shouldnt have lost the war
and were talking about THE USA here, not any given redneck hole in the ground in particular

 

[n00b]

In my opinion we have NO rights in this country. Thats why we get fucked over time and time again, regardless of government, though its clearly worse under this current crop of self-righteous pansys.

And you seriously believe americans got rights ??

 

[Tom]

total number of things i own that i dont need, that i could use to kill lots of people...

ZERO

next question ?

Oh right. Better ban Samurai Swords then. Oh wait, they just did.

BBC NEWS | UK | Ban on samurai swords becomes law

All because the odd nutcase can't deal with them in a responsible fashion.

Tell you what, lets ban knives. And hammers. And saws. And candles. And cars.

BANNING EVERYTHING DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. We have banned weapons in this country, people still shoot each other, and guess what its not the normal sane gun-owning hunting population, no, its the fucking idiots who will get a gun any way they can, ban or not.

Fuck sake. I'm sick of people talking about banning things they don't like.

 

[throdgrain]

Well more than we got yes, I think so.

And Dagaffer, you best watch out for them cheesegraters, they are SHARP!!

 

[Tom]

And wealth has what to do with this exactly? For a start there are a lot more Europeans than Americans with a shitload less gun crime, and Euros are as rich or richer than Yanks. Its not rocket science ffs.

You said 'world' not 'Europe'. Make your mind up, which is it?

 

[Cadiva]

FFS man how many times do I have to say most states dont allow full auto guns

And what does allowing them to have them have to do with the guns being there in the first place? The UK's gun law doesn't allow for half of the guns that are used to illegally commit crime. It's the fact they're there in the first place that's the issue as far as I'm concerned.

And, before you start any kind of comment on whether or not I like or dislike guns I'll just let you know I have had extensive experience, as a journalist, with both live round and blank shooting during features and exercises with both the military and the police service.
I have shot pistols using blanks and I've shot with live rounds on an army base using the standard issue SA-80. In my more active pistol shooting days I used to be able to field strip a Browning 9mm in under a minute having been taught by my ex-Royal Engineers uncle who I used to go shooting with on Sundays at the local gun club.

I have no problem with weapons or guns in general. I have a problem, however, with people using a piece of legislation which was created during a time of civil unrest and outright rebellion which applied to a militia being able to arm itself and protect the rights of a newly independent country, to justify why a two month old baby is allowed to legally own a gun in some US states!

 

[Mabs]

Oh right. Better ban Samurai Swords then. Oh wait, they just did.

BBC NEWS | UK | Ban on samurai swords becomes law

All because the odd nutcase can't deal with them in a responsible fashion.

Tell you what, lets ban knives. And hammers. And saws. And candles. And cars.

BANNING EVERYTHING DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. We have banned weapons in this country, people still shoot each other, and guess what its not the normal sane gun-owning hunting population, no, its the fucking idiots who will get a gun any way they can, ban or not.

Fuck sake. I'm sick of people talking about banning things they don't like.

yeah fine
i have no problem with them NOT banning those things.. once you show me a LEGITIMATE use for them
noone, NEEDS a samurai sword. if you want it on a wall as a film copy, or whatever, have a BLUNT one.
and come on, banning saws? get a grip

 

[Tom]

What do you mean, no-one needs a Samurai sword? What on earth gives you the right to say that? Are you Ken Livingstone's secret communist love child?

What if I was into martial arts, and wanted to practice my swordsmanship? Do I now have to use a wooden stick? What if I just liked looking at beautiful swords, liked the feel of them in my hands, but would never entertain the thought of using it to hurt somebody?

You think banning saws is going too far? It wasn't all that long ago that boys would go out into the country with a knife, using it to whittle pieces of wood, or to kill rabbits, or whatever they liked. These days you go out with a knife and get caught you're going to prison. All because a few idiots couldn't control themselves, and a few MPs jumped on the bandwagon and ruined things for every other responsible person out there.

I should be surprised at the mindset of people who want things they don't like to be banned, but I'm not. I can remember a time when daft twats got a clip around the ear and the rest of us got on with life, not any more, now the daft twats get locked up and the rest of us get threatened with being locked up.

 

[Mabs]

What do you mean, no-one needs a Samurai sword?

What if I was into martial arts, and wanted to practice my swordsmanship? Do I now have to use a wooden stick? What if I just liked looking at beautiful swords, liked the feel of them in my hands, but would never entertain the thought of using it to hurt somebody?

meant exactly what i said
you DONT need it. you WANT it, not even remotely comparable
and if your working that angle, im allowed to have everythign i want, so excuse me while i start burning down buildings cos i want to watch them burn... or are we going to stop using silly examples ?

 

[Fweddy]

So you're against ownership of anything that's not food, heat or shelter? That sounds like a fun country, how do I join?

 

[Mabs]

So you're against ownership of anything that's not food, heat or shelter? That sounds like a fun country, how do I join?

im going to give that the answer it deserves..

lol

 

[throdgrain]

I suspect he actually IS Kens secret love child.

This is the great sadness of the last decade or so. The powers-that-be have soaked into the brains of so many people the idea that you just have to ban things and make new laws, and it will all be ok.

Well let me tell you something. It wont.


It doesnt matter to me whether samurai swords are banned or not. It wont change my life.

But it will for the people who like the things. No legitimate reason to own one?? Who the fuck are you to say what a legitimate reason is?

They have banned these swords, my guns, christ they've even banned airsoft iirc. Where does it end? Does the public have no say, no right to chose what it does? Are you all just bloody sheep????

 

[Mabs]

I suspect he actually IS Kens secret love child.

This is the great sadness of the last decade or so. The powers-that-be have soaked into the brains of so many people the idea that you just have to ban things and make new laws, and it will all be ok.

Well let me tell you something. It wont.


It doesnt matter to me whether samurai swords are banned or not. It wont change my life.

But it will for the people who like the things. No legitimate reason to own one?? Who the fuck are you to say what a legitimate reason is?

They have banned these swords, my guns, christ they've even banned airsoft iirc. Where does it end? Does the public have no say, no right to chose what it does? Are you all just bloody sheep????

i bet you if they started giving away firearms with boxes of cornflakes , the gun crime rate in this country would go through the roof
ergo, the better control we have over weapon, the better off we are
end
of

but feel free to go on spouting stuff about Ken, and not actually prove me wrong

oh and Fweddy, were talking about weapons here, try reading first

 

[throdgrain]

You'll have us all eating with plastic forks mate. Stop. look at yourself. People make the choices, not things

 

[Dukat]

meant exactly what i said
you DONT need it. you WANT it, not even remotely comparable
and if your working that angle, im allowed to have everythign i want, so excuse me while i start burning down buildings cos i want to watch them burn... or are we going to stop using silly examples ?

I dont know if I see how you've made the jump there - people are allowed to own petrol, matches and firelighters but houses are not burning all over the country at the moment, neither is arson crime going 'through the roof'.

Just because something is readily available does not mean it will be used and abused.

The comparison Fweddy is making to your post is that technically everything bar "food, heat or shelter" is WANT and not NEED.

I wanted a PC, so I went out and bought one. I wanted a motorbike, again, I bought it. I am now the proud owner of a PC and a motorbike, because I wanted them - I wanted a samurai sword, as tom said, for the feel, for the look, because I'm fascinated with the whole history of the weapon, luckily I was able to get a couple before sword laws changed. I like them, but they are *almost* exactly the same to me as my motorbike or PC. They serve the purpose I puchased them for, they havent caused harm, nor will they.

I do not personally see how banning them will solve any problems or hardly any crime at all - if someone wants to kill someone else and is willing to use a samurai sword to do it, surely they'd be just as capable with a carving knife? infact, carving knives are far, far easier to conceal than a samurai sword, so why would the potential homicidal maniac opt for a sword in this day and age anyway?

Yes, they're purpose build weapons, as opposed to dangerous tools such as carving knives, I understand this, a samurai sword is not NEEDED in the same way as a carving knife is. That said, they both do pretty much the same thing when it comes to the act.

The same sort of thing could be said for guns - there are plenty of ways to kill someone without needing a gun to do it, and to be fair, if someone wants to use a gun, they'll find one - gun crimes that happen practically every day are testament to this.

Banning guns only bans guns for people who abide by the law - why should law abiding people be inhibited like this? I agree, if everyone had a gun, gun crime would go up. That said, surely alot of other crimes would go down ? If a criminal knows he's liable to face a firearm when he breaks & enters someones home surely he's going to think twice about it?

To be fair, I'm not sure what I think about gun laws. I disagree completely with the sword ban, but guns for me are a more complicated issue that I just dont know enough to debate about, I just thought I'd add food for thought - I dont think its anywhere near as simple as some of the Anti-gun people here are making it

 

[nath]

To reductio ad absurdum y'all - I want a nuclear warhead in my garden - I'd never dream of hurting anyone with it and I'd keep safely in a thick lead box so no radiation could harm anyone. So why can't I have one? Because it's a fucking nuclear weapon. When deciding whether I should be allowed to have one, one has to weigh up the risk to society vs the restriction of my freedom. In this case it's clear - fuck my freedom to own a nuke, the risk to society would be too high.

In the case of samurai swords - I think it swings the other way. I don't think it's worth banning them at all, given the fact that you can get massive carving knives that could do the job almost as well.

As for guns - well this is where it gets a little tricky. I'm undecided on the subject but I don't think the US and the UK are comparable in this situation. People are constantly trying to take an almost scientific approach to it, the UK has banned most guns and our gun crime is significantly lower than that of the US. That doesn't for a second mean that if we were to have similar gun control (or lack thereof) to that of the states we'd end up with the same amount of gun related death - it's just not as simple as that.

The gun control issue is a complicated one and I'm not sure where I stand on it - but I find it amusing that people often seem to think they know what the answer is.

Also, Throd I found your comments about internet know-it-alls ranting about a subject and refusing to change their mind/acknowledge another opinion pretty fucking rich given your posts on this thread. Yeah, you have a shotgun and if you were allowed more guns no doubt you'd be totally safe with them. I'm sure you know countless people who'd be the same, but the gun control issue spreads out a little further than that. I find it interesting that you're so willing to slag people off for wanting to ban shit that they don't like because they don't like it, yet you want potentially lethal weapons available simply because you like them. Other peoples opinions on this subject are just as valid as yours mate, this is something that affects us all - directly or indirectly.

 

[DaGaffer]

You said 'world' not 'Europe'. Make your mind up, which is it?

Now you're just being obtuse. You equated gun crime with America's wealth (somehow), I used the example of Europe to show that makes no sense. The fact is, America's wealth should actually mitigate against gun crime. Other than the US, all the other big gun crime countries are in the developing world.

I don't know why I keep saying this, but I'll try for the fourth time; I'M NOT AGAINST OWNING GUNS. But they have to be regulated. To use Throd's Samurai swords example; that's an example of a stupid ban because the odds of someone going nuts with one are vanishingly small, and more importantly, the amount of harm a nutcase could commit with one is actually quite low (a nutcase could do a lot more damage with a car before he was stopped). This is NOT the case with guns. How many times does it have to be proved? And in the US, gun regulation is simply too lax; no-one really knows who has what, no-one is under a strong obligation to keep them under lock and key, and they have a ridiculously macho attitude towards guns that only aggravates the problem. I'm sure there are plenty of responsible gun owners in the US; probably the vast majority; but with gun ownership so ubiquitous, even a small minority of irresponsible/stupid/criminal behaviour creates a big problem.

 

[Jupitus]

I'm off on a grater rampage!!!

 

[throdgrain]

I'm off on a grater rampage!!!

Best do it while you still can

 

[Draylor]

im going to give that the answer it deserves..

Ok then I will, *&^" off Fweddy you wannabe-^%$£

 

[Mabs]

I wanted a PC, so I went out and bought one. I wanted a motorbike, again, I bought it. I am now the proud owner of a PC and a motorbike, because I wanted them - I wanted a samurai sword, as tom said, for the feel, for the look, because I'm fascinated with the whole history of the weapon, luckily I was able to get a couple before sword laws changed. I like them, but they are *almost* exactly the same to me as my motorbike or PC. They serve the purpose I puchased them for, they havent caused harm, nor will they.

which has got bugger all to do with anything. really dont care why u wanted them, the point remains, you cant run down your high street maiming people with a pc, and you would be hard pushed to do it with a motorbike, beyond the first clump of people you ploughed into.
its got nothing to do with what joe public wants, its got everything to do with what retards, and unbalanced people, being able to do with them

either you are in favour of everyone in the country being able to have all the weapons they could possibly want, cos its their "right", or you arent, the rest is semantics

 

[Mabs]

 

[old.Tohtori]

I have to ask here, as other forum i shall not mention, failed to answer it ocmpletely:

He was an actor, member of NRA, liked guns...and people hate him for what?

The utter amount of hatred towards this guy just baffles me, especially since there's no real reason given.

About guns and gun laws, i think it was in Chuck, on a t-shirt that(paraphrase): "If we outlaw guns, then the only people with guns would be outlaws." NS really.

 

[Mabs]

He was an actor, member of NRA, liked guns

if you want to be the mouthpiece and public face of an organisation that, whatever its design intentions, is a refuge for gun nuts who sit there whining about their "rights" while people are being killed, then you cant really expect to universally loved.