A sad day

[throdgrain]

Charlton Heston died, aged 84.

A good innings in fairness.

 

[JingleBells]

Well, at least they can get their gun back now: YouTube - From my cold dead hands
[youtubevid]O0B_UZNtEk4[/youtubevid]

RIP

 

[Starman]

Soylent Green is people!

 

[Mabs]

sorry, but im glad hes gone, the man was an ignorant ****

he was a good enough actor in his time, but cant be doing with his politics and so forth
he rates about where the Bush family are on my list of people were better off without

 

[old.user4556]

It's never nice when someone dies, but Mabs is right; he was a right ignorant twat.

 

[Embattle]

He was a good actor, I also don't wish ppl dead but I tend to support Mabs view.

 

[throdgrain]

I rather liked his politics.

 

[gohan]

i rather like PIE

 

[Starman]

mmm PiE! But what of CaKE?!

 

[Draylor]

I rather liked his politics.

Well you know what that makes you :kissit:

 

[throdgrain]

Yes.

It makes me RIGHT!!

 

[Mabs]

Yes.

It makes me RIGHT!!

exactly, far RIGHT!

 

[Tom]

I remember him as a great actor. If he wanted and liked guns, fair enough that's his right. I'm not about to slag him off for that especially as he's just died.

 

[DaGaffer]

I remember him as a great actor. If he wanted and liked guns, fair enough that's his right. I'm not about to slag him off for that especially as he's just died.

I think "liked guns" is kind of understating it; that was just a part of his politics anyway (old-school right-wing Reaganite) with that ridiculous "it's in the constitution so it must be right" attitude, beloved of Americans too stupid to realise rules written 200-odd years ago may need an update now and then.

Never understood the attitude that if someone dies they automatically get respect. I thought he was an idiot. Now he's a dead idiot.

 

[throdgrain]

He wasnt an idiot, you idiot. Why is someone who wants the right to own a gun to defend himself an idiot?

Im amazed you're not in politics yourself Dagaffer, at least, you obviously know more about everything than everyone else. I'm suprised you're not running the country to be honest.

 

[Trem]

Don't let Michael 'biased to suit his own films' Moores view of him cloud your judgement.

There is always 2 sides to the argument and why shouldn't Heston be fucking annoyed at a fat lying spaz interviewing him, maybe he got a sniff of what Moore was trying to do.

Didn't Heston do Omega Man? If so he deserves respect solely for that.

 

[DaGaffer]

He wasnt an idiot, you idiot. Why is someone who wants the right to own a gun to defend himself an idiot?

Im amazed you're not in politics yourself Dagaffer, at least, you obviously know more about everything than everyone else. I'm suprised you're not running the country to be honest.

Because they use the constitutional "right to bear arms" argument completely out of context in order to justify ownership of anything up to and including heavy machine guns. The right to bear arms clause in the constitution was about raising local militias; NOT about making up for having a small cock by owning an M60.

I have no problem with gun ownership, and I think our own laws are over-punitive, but in America, its not just about gun ownership its about gun culture, which is seriously fucked-up. There are countries with more guns per head than the US (like the Swiss), and yet they don't feel the need to shoot each other, and yet the septics do, why? One reason is because their constitutional 'right' as espoused by Heston's NRA, means its fucking difficult to stop anyone buying a gun, and there are very few checks post-purchase; which is how kids can easily access their parents' arsenals and shoot up schools. I'm not saying the NRA is the only reason why kids shoot up schools and the gun crime rate is so high, but those bozos are pretty fucking high up the list.

And Trem, I watched about ten minutes of Bowling For Columbine, before Moore got on my nerves and I switched off. I had to force myself to watch Farenheit 911.

Throd, you'd be a lot happier under my enlightened but despotic rule than under Nu-Lab, believe me!

 

[Trem]

And Trem, I watched about ten minutes of Bowling For Columbine, before Moore got on my nerves and I switched off. I had to force myself to watch Farenheit 911.

Fair play

For a real view on what it was like everyone should watch the film Elephant, truly shocking and so well made.

 

[throdgrain]

They use thier constitution to defend thier rights to own guns. If they allowed it to be removed, before long those in power would think up new laws to stop them shooting.

The NRA is NOTHING TO DO with why there are murders in the USA. The NRA is there to defend shooters rights, a job it does admirably.

Different states have different laws about guns anyway. In Texas you could own a full-auto "machine gun" as you call it, but in most states you certainly couldnt. Semi-auto is the most popular. How many of these /bbc-phrase massacres have been done with a full-auto gun anyway? None that Ive read about.

In my opinion we have NO rights in this country. Thats why we get fucked over time and time again, regardless of government, though its clearly worse under this current crop of self-righteous pansys.

 

[DaGaffer]

They use thier constitution to defend thier rights to own guns. If they allowed it to be removed, before long those in power would think up new laws to stop them shooting.

The NRA is NOTHING TO DO with why there are murders in the USA. The NRA is there to defend shooters rights, a job it does admirably.

Different states have different laws about guns anyway. In Texas you could own a full-auto "machine gun" as you call it, but in most states you certainly couldnt. Semi-auto is the most popular. How many of these /bbc-phrase massacres have been done with a full-auto gun anyway? None that Ive read about.

In my opinion we have NO rights in this country. Thats why we get fucked over time and time again, regardless of government, though its clearly worse under this current crop of self-righteous pansys.

No, they use their constitutional "right" to defend anyone's right to own guns. Which isn't quite the same thing. And sorry, you're wrong. The NRA represents an unthinking defence of gun culture for its own sake, which is why they contribute to the gun crime problem. You can rant and rave about it as much as you like, but the simple fact is the NRA are a pressure group for the multi-billion dollar weapons industry. As I said, I think our laws are too strict, but with the Americans, its not so much their laws as their too-casual relationship with guns. Every Swiss house has an Assault rifle, but every Swiss house also has someone fully trained to use an assualt rifle and harsh penalties for misuse or even mis-storage; that's not the case in the US. No way should it be someone's 'right' to walk into Wal-Mart and pick up an AR-15 three days later. You wouldn't let someone drive a car without training, why the Hell would you let them have a gun? I'll tell you why, because its in the constitution.

 

[Mabs]

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

does not mean you need to keep assault rifles lying around your house, nor do you need a fully automatic weapon for hunting purposes, L2Shoot - most people can manage with a scoped bolt action.

im fed up with the "i am allowed to keep firearms" arguments. NRA is at the centre of it, end of story

 

[MYstIC G]

Americans should take lessons in how to read before they start talking about what rights they do/do not have under the constitution. That's the real bloody problem.

 

[throdgrain]

No, they use their constitutional "right" to defend anyone's right to own guns. Which isn't quite the same thing. And sorry, you're wrong. The NRA represents an unthinking defence of gun culture for its own sake, which is why they contribute to the gun crime problem.

Yes they defend the right to own a gun. That doesnt make them murderers, it doesnt make them encourage people to shoot people. It doesnt do anything other than defend the peoples rights. Strangely enough, its already illegal to shoot someone. I wish we had something like that here, instead of the lily-livered load of rubbish we have to put up with.

Sorry, you're wrong. You can pontificate as much as you like about as many different subjects as you like, christ you normally do, but you wont bullshit me on this one mate, no matter how often you use google

 

[Mabs]

Yes they defend the right to own a gun. That doesnt make them murderers, it doesnt make them encourage people to shoot people. It doesnt do anything other than defend the peoples rights.

defends the peoples rights taken out of the context it was originally written in

and , ok, you need someone prepared to kill someone, plus something to do it with, before you get someone killed. yes, ofc its illegal to kill people, and the threat of law is there to keep the first part of ^ under control, but in this country we have additional steps to cover the second part of ^, whereas they activelly dont, and oddly enough, they have a lot of gun deaths than we do

and i really would have absolutely no problem with someone who wants to keep a flintlock musket for his self defence, i really dont think the original writers of that bit of the constitution had any idea how far it would be taken

 

[throdgrain]

Such bollocks. The vast, VAST majority of gun owners dont want to kill anyone, they are for sporting use. You just cant get your head round the idea that people like to shoot.

Its not even that different here. Why do you think the UK has one of the best Air Rifle manufacturing industries in the world? Because people want to shoot, thats why, but they're not allowed to, so they get the next best thing.

I sincerely think some people have been so indoctrinated by the BBC and the others that shape what you're told to do, that you wouldnt understand if your lives depended on it. And of course, like all internet forums, even if you did see the light you could just carry on typing bollocks until the sky falls. Nothing proved!

does not mean you need to keep assault rifles lying around your house, nor do you need a fully automatic weapon for hunting purposes, L2Shoot - most people can manage with a scoped bolt action.

im fed up with the "i am allowed to keep firearms" arguments. NRA is at the centre of it, end of story

Oh, and yet again, most states dont allow full auto guns anyway. And most states insist on max 3 rounds for hunting as well, so how does that come into your opinion? Of course, just ignore it and type something else !

 

[DaGaffer]

Such bollocks. The vast, VAST majority of gun owners dont want to kill anyone, they are for sporting use. You just cant get your head round the idea that people like to shoot.

Its not even that different here. Why do you think the UK has one of the best Air Rifle manufacturing industries in the world? Because people want to shoot, thats why, but they're not allowed to, so they get the next best thing.

I sincerely think some people have been so indoctrinated by the BBC and the others that shape what you're told to do, that you wouldnt understand if your lives depended on it. And of course, like all internet forums, even if you did see the light you could just carry on typing bollocks until the sky falls. Nothing proved!

Oh, and yet again, most states dont allow full auto guns anyway. And most states insist on max 3 rounds for hunting as well, so how does that come into your opinion? Of course, just ignore it and type something else !

You see, you need to check your facts. According to the NRA's OWN figures, nearly half of gun owners (48%) cite "self-defence" as their primary reason for owning a gun, and only 25% for sporting use. This alone is a worrying statistic as people who want a gun for self-defence tend not to keep it where it can't be easily accessed.

Also you keep banging on about how most states don't allow fully automatic weapons. Who cares? Semi-autos and handguns can kill you just as dead; I've no idea but I'd guess most deaths are from handguns. 3 rounds for hunting. Once again, so what? And if you only get three rounds why the fuck do you need a semi-auto? Ignoring the murder rate, in 2004, 700 Americans died in hunting accidents! That's more than the total UK gun deaths for the last decade! So even if you were right, and its all about the sport, Americans are clearly too stupid to be allowed near a fucking potato gun. Americans have 5% of the world's population and 15% of the world's gun crime. But of course in the words of the immortal Bill Hicks "...there's no connection, and you'd be a fool and a communist to make one."

I'll say it again, for the third time, I have no problem with gun ownership. I do have a problem with a culture that refuses to see that their attitude towards, and lack of control of who gets to own a gun, is seriously fucked up.

 

[Mabs]

ok lets start again

there are 2 types of firearms.. sporting, and military

sporting is things like shotguns, rifles, airifles, what not
military is things like assault rifles, machine guns, blah blah

group 1 is fine
group 2 has NO REQUIREMENT, EVER, IN A CIVILIAN ENVIRONMENT, and yet these fuckers get off on owning them, and then a small minority go ape in their school or whatever and kill loads of people

id love to see someone massacre loads of university students with a .22 rifle...

THATS the difference

 

[Mabs]

see this

its a shit video, its the audio you want, tom lehrer ftw !

 

[Tom]

Americans have 5% of the world's population and 15% of the world's gun crime.

And the percentage of the world's population that are as rich as Americans is?

Totally with Throddy here. Internet experts ftw!

 

[Tom]

group 2 has NO REQUIREMENT, EVER, IN A CIVILIAN ENVIRONMENT, and yet these fuckers get off on owning them, and then a small minority go ape in their school or whatever and kill loads of people

How many things do you own that you have no requirement for?

Since when was 'requirement' a pre-requisite for owning something?