Misc 5G networks

[Deebs]

I wouldn't have provided that @Deebs. @Job has a lot of form for saying stuff but refusing to back it up with any sort of evidence at all.

Evidence, to Job, is just stuff that gets in the way of his absolute divine knowledge of how the world really is.

It is ok, just showing what I am doing in relation to 5G with some pretty big mobile providers

I also built a greenfield platform across 2 datacenters for them under CAS-T, details SSE Enterprise Telecoms - Optical and Ethernet Services - NCSC Site

 

[Job]

IAnd still 5G is going to use aerials as I described them..not tower base stations in at least 100m distances in urban areas because 5G frequencies will not penetrate buildings very well at all.
Its bad enough even at 900mhz on 4G.
Lots of cell sites dont have fibre links..thats what those microwave dishes attached to them are for.

I actually posted this last week.
It describes the 5G setup very simply.

View: https://youtu.be/GEx_d0SjvS0

But feel free to carry on hurling abuse..even though I was right.

 

[dysfunction]

You've got a video for 5 year olds to prove your point

 

[Scouse]

But feel free to carry on hurling abuse..even though I was right.

No @Job. Your point was about tracking everything (knives) and you said they're going to put a grid all over the entire country in 100 meter squares:

I would like to tell you that this kind of shit is being worked on as we speak. 5G isnt far off such a capability.
Realtime tracking and point graphs of tiny dot sized tracking chips.

Of course you could sharpen a stick, so theyll just keep going.

They are talking recievers every 100ms over the entire country.

Once again. Full of shit.

 

[Job]

Its actually more difficult to explain something simply than go off all technical.

 

[Deebs]

You've got a video for 5 year olds to prove your point

Whilst density will be higher it will not be every 100 metres. The cost would be too astronomical.

Ericsson reckon that an achievable distance without having to use antenna is 350 metres or so. The other thing to remember is that 5G is more than just mobile phone users. It is about enabling businesses to have +10gig speeds without having to have cabling installed into the premise.

 

[Job]

Well seeing as most people live in urban areas..then yes it will have to be the entire urban areas to get a signal.
No theyre not going to be every 100ms in a fucking field.
But I just sort of assumed that there was a combined intelligence about radio waves.
But certainly if you wanted a signal in a popular forest area..then yes it would need loads of aerials whereas the 4G can be cell tower 5 miles away.

 

[Scouse]

Its actually more difficult to explain something simply than go off all technical.

That's because non-technical people don't have the "words" to grasp how things are *actually* supposed to be talked about. It's actually easier to have a proper education and talk about things in the technical terms that have been designed to talk about the subject in a meaningful way.

Once again:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp4dpeJVDxs

 

[Deebs]

For example I could install a CPE with builtin antenna which allows me to be much further away from a 5G MU-MIMO/beam basestation whilst giving me upto 100Gbps without having to dig up the road for fibre, no shitty wayleave, no planning permission/permits. Bam, instant speed with less upfront costs. This is where the money is going to be made.

5G for the mobile user is merely a gimmick in major cities. These providers are going after the wired business market first and foremost.

 

[Scouse]

Yep @Deebs. They're not going to be tracking knives on the IOT any time soon...

 

[Deebs]

Yep @Deebs. They're not going to be tracking knives on the IOT any time soon...

And they are not going to be offering 5Gbps to each and every mobile user simultaneously. It is not happening. Not for a while. They will tout up to speeds just like ADSL/cable. Businesses will get QoS and everyone else gets best endeavours on what is left.

We run cables with 144 fibres in them, each of those fibres run multiple 100Gb wavelengths. It is serious bandwidth numbers. I am not sure if mobile providers run multiple wavelengths to each mast, something I will ask them on Monday as I do not need to Google stuff like this when I have access to the engineers building the stuff

 

[Job]

Each gen is shrinking the cell to reciever distance.
Analog was basically restrained by the TDM limits, 5G is up to 80ghz and wont go through jack shit.
Once they push out to 300ghz youll need a reciever every 50m.
Unless they crack some new wireless tech

 

[Job]

That's because non-technical people don't have the "words" to grasp how things are *actually* supposed to be talked about. It's actually easier to have a proper education and talk about things in the technical terms that have been designed to talk about the subject in a meaningful way.

Once again:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp4dpeJVDxs

You can kiss his ass all you like, but hes quite obviously strayed into just being a pedantic prick in a place where it isnt reqd.

When asked what the feeling is, he should use his intelligence to asses the context and give an answer.
That level of thought is more for theoretical physics against another thinker on the same wavelength.
Not a interviewer asking about magnets.

 

[Deebs]

Each gen is shrinking the cell to reciever distance.
Analog was basically restrained by the TDM limits, 5G is up to 80ghz and wont go through jack shit.
Once they push out to 300ghz youll need a reciever every 50m.
Unless they crack some new wireless tech

Um 5G is not upto 80Ghz. Where are you getting this information from? The bottom of your toilet after you have had a shit? The current highest frequency is 39GHz.

5G NR frequency bands - Wikipedia

 

[Scouse]

You can kiss his ass all you like, but hes quite obviously strayed into just being a pedantic prick in a place where it isnt reqd.

When asked what the feeling is, he should use his intelligence to asses the context and give an answer.
That level of thought is more for theoretical physics against another thinker on the same wavelength.
Not a interviewer asking about magnets.

He's being asked about theoretical physics on an interview about theoretical physics and gives one of the most interesting and complete answers a theoretical physicist can give without insulting the interviewer's intelligence.

He not only answers the question on a @Job level - magnets repel each other because of the magnetic force - he explains why a lay-person can't enter into any sensible discussion about the electromagnetic force without a proper level of education.

You hate that because it absolutely proves that a high level of education is totally and utterly necessary for humans.

Either that, or you hate it because you don't understand it.

 

[Job]

Thats for unlicensed 5G links.

 

[Job]

Do I need to explain that as well

 

[Deebs]

Do I need to explain that as well

Christ.

Can you link me the 80Ghz spectrum you are talking about?

5G Frequency Bands and Spectrum Allocation in the UK

 

[Scouse]

Do I need to explain that as well

You have to explain everything if you want anyone to understand you. You have to provide links where required (if, for example, you make a statement that people could dispute).

It's called discussion, @Job. It requires the use of the correct words, the provision of evidence and the considering of people's counterpoints.

i.e. something you've been getting shit about for a couple of years now, and you're getting worse at, not better.

 

[Job]

The FCC and some parts of the world allow 5G usage up to 80ghz in an unlicensed mode..ie its not protected..no guarantees and might well suffer interference.

 

[Deebs]

Fuck me sideways. The FCC and some parts of the world are not the fucking UK. FUCK ME.

 

[Embattle]

The FCC and some parts of the world allow 5G usage up to 80ghz in an unlicensed mode..ie its not protected..no guarantees and might well suffer interference.

You do realise that even home routers have different regulations in different parts of the world let alone mobile communications.

 

[Hawkwind]

5G for the mobile user is merely a gimmick in major cities. These providers are going after the wired business market first and foremost.

Not entirely wasted, the Operators cannot cope with the data usage now, they use WiFi and even HS2.0 OSU to seamlessly offload much of it onto WiFi in high congestion areas. Building 5g networks allows them to take that back into their network. GSM Operators have issues billing for WiFi so taking it back into their own eco system makes things much simpler. Was at the last GSMA technical meeting where most of the discussion was around this.

 

[Hawkwind]

Meant to add that we were pushing for IOT rate contracts around HS2.0 adoption. Most operators are not interested due to billing setup being outside their methods. WiFi billing is all bespoke and not standardized like GSM market.
Basically they are using this convergence of tech for their own backhaul in the main and not really pushing it into the market for adoption.