3rd ML and Stealther Balance.

[Aiteal]

Zephyr may not be all that with the classes that have it now, but will be quite nasty on VWs and tics.
If they would reduce the recast timer, fix the bugs and make it easier to cast, it would still be a usefull ability, but not ridiculous on the "wrong" classes.

Thats very true
FZ and Levi
Nerfing it for bow specced archers (easy rps for anyone) because they give it to classes like heretics who have no problems with casters or tanks once they reach RR5 is just plain wrong

Just scrap this 3rd ML thing alltogether

 

[NeLSoN]

What have you been smoking? SM dont have any use of pet ml9? i think thats supposed to be RM mate ; )

hahah thx for correct me anyways i hope every1 understood it

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

They should scrap the whole idea and undo the Banelord changes.

It will only leed to more zerging in solo RvR, cause targets with Battler/Malice and Warguard and IP up will be so hard to kill.

Heretics and Assasains being able to land Levis/Nukes and high DPS in FZ sounds silly.

Wizzards will be able to go high PD and fire Warguard when needed and all other casters to cure own nearsight.

Lots of group memebers will have access to PS and FZ, FZ should be purgeable or have a PS-component.

Necros will be overpowered in PvE now with Warlord.

They way it will most likely be is that some of the abilities get hit with a nerf bat, I can't see it working other way.

 

[Gear]

It's not really the end of the world. There are ways to counter WL anyway. I don't like these changes so much, however it will mean that I have to apply new tactics to counter them.

FZ= No issue, I'll just strafe more, used to doing that anyway and I can avoid 90% of them zephyrs.

Warguard = garote and take off. Return after it's down and finish the job.

Grapple = silly, just dd em or use throwing weapons / crossbow. Take advantage of the 2 second window to do some melee damage too.

My NS will stay spymaster. Spike and mezz poison is too good to give up. I also have fun with decoys that will kill DD traps instantly.

 

[Huntingtons]

Haha silly Illu, you dont actually believe that assassins are supposed to be able to kill anything? Clearly Mythic want us removed from the game, and are just thinking of was to fuck us over .

Can't wait to meet that first BG mincer+infil duo :kissit:

i would be happy if they did

 

[Ethild]

Warguard = garote and take off. Return after it's down and finish the job.

You know turning from someone with a bow probably isn't the best plan.

 

[rawr]

I don't understand why anyone is calling assassins with Sojourner OP... What assassin in their right mind would drop Spymaster for it (unless to survive)?

Assassins are really getting the worst out of all of these changes. They were meant to be a frontload dps character, which can now be countered by anyone that typically hunts them; the 1v1 scene is going to be rife with Warguard wannabes. With the archer changes, any sensible archer will want to go Warguard. This means assassins will want to change their style of play (adapt and survive 101); the way I see things, assassins now have 2 options (feel free to be constructive and point out the flaws):

1. Said assassin opts to lose potential melee damage or other RAs (purge3) and becomes a viper-dumper.
- This will not work as you probably intend it to when the wannabe Warguard character counters it with purge/cleansing aura. Yes, assassins can swap in DoT poison; but to even hope for the burst of dps that dot spike adds (which a sensible player will purge (unless they have < purge3 and are saving it for stun), and save cleansing aura for weapon-poisons, they would probably have to spec lifebane. No more 'Wyrd' spec, and they will all more than likely have purge2/3 to counter this style of play anyway. Add to the fact here that they can all dump Warguard, a potential battler /use2 & malice proc on you, that's bye bye to frontloading.
Minstrels could do this before... but imagine something with higher offense combined with defensive timers (Ranger)...
You could probably only get away with speccing stun with this spec, but you again risk losing an optimum spec and you've got the problem of not always using hamstring chain/ diamondback/dragonfang together after evade. Infils for example would go 50 thrust/ 44cs (imo), not as good damage as 50 composite slash/thrust and 50cs (Wyrd). They also lose out on the malice proc if they spec thrust, unless they want to gimp offhand damage and possibly swing speeds. Harder template for thrust, harder caps (dex/str), which means lower overall damage than slash due to weapon table changes/ being forced to lose any aug-abilities in exchange for viper at lower RR (still hard at higher RR ).
I remember someone referring to templates on the 1v1 scene (assassins especially) as being an artform; it can literally mean win/lose. Harder template = potentially harder to cap stats, which means for example, someone would lose out if they can't spend for example aug qui2 to cap qui at ~250.
They're pretty much relying on a stun that isn't purged, and perhaps poison dumping to win, but this is easily countered by a Warguard archer/tank that knows what they are doing tbh.

2. Said assassin opts for an ML line respec and swaps to Sojourner.
- FZ timer means you will be relying on waiting for it to come back up and land to stand any reasonable chance against an average archer. You have also lost mezz pots and dotspike, you are relying on the dps from melee and weapon-poisons. Countered by warguard and cleansing aura, battler debuff and a potential malice proc thrown in for fun. If Mythic decide to change FZ to an immunity-out-of-combat ability, then the assassin has just lost more dps again and wasted a respec too.

(3). Perhaps a mixture of the previous 2 options. FZ & dotspike 1 trick pony on a timer... (NOT the way assassins are intended to be played.)
The only benefit with this, is that the FZ timer means purge2 (lost points from purge3 for viper) would be enough...

Assassins are being forced to fight other assassins now, unless they want to dump everything and get lucky imo. An adding archer is going to more than likely mean death, a solo archer if you do not have your 'I hope I get lucky' abilities up will be death.
I do not feel that killing casters with PA chain would keep me entertained for long either, especially when any ~rr5+ caster can MoC on you anyway.

From an assassin POV, this is very bad. Apart from the challenge, why would anyone want to still play an 'assassin' when another class can do it better. Rangers have potential PD + WH + Battler + Malice + Higher tier armour + good damage, and now Warguard for more defense. Scouts have more defense due to a shield so they are doing fine, and Hunters are pretty well off with the damage they can potentially deal out (would Hunters want to spec Sojourner > Warguard though?)
Assassins are not tanks; fighting all of the real tanks when they have Warguard is going to be annoying at best. I personally found it a challenge to fight the solo tanks that are about to test the limits on my Infil; I doubt there's really much point anymore unless I'm feeling destructive. The only trade off (apart from wannabe-assassin-God-archers) is that the solo scene will obviously now have more variety and anyone without stealth will be steamrolled by the visual characters.

From an overall POV, adding assassins with FZ will be annoying at best. The good 'known' assassins didn't add on FGs anyway from what I ever saw. Adding on FG = death with a small chance of RPs, definately not worth the risk, unless they pop you, which as has already been said you can Phaseshift to annoy them.

The added ML changes are not needed, a few classes could have used a third line/ had one of the existing lines changed, this would have been fine - game balance > fluff. I would much rather see all of the changes removed if they stay like this though.

I am possibly reading too much into the changes though, there are positives; but in terms of assassins, all I can see are the negatives.

 

[Jox]

It's not really the end of the world. There are ways to counter WL anyway. I don't like these changes so much, however it will mean that I have to apply new tactics to counter them.

FZ= No issue, I'll just strafe more, used to doing that anyway and I can avoid 90% of them zephyrs.

Warguard = garote and take off. Return after it's down and finish the job.

Grapple = silly, just dd em or use throwing weapons / crossbow. Take advantage of the 2 second window to do some melee damage too.

My NS will stay spymaster. Spike and mezz poison is too good to give up. I also have fun with decoys that will kill DD traps instantly.

"Warguard = garote and take off. Return after it's down and finish the job."

So if a ranger have warlord I just... garrote and stumble away? lol, your worthless retard. Rangers are heavy as it is, with warlord it will be absurd.

 

[Tuthmes]

You know turning from someone with a bow probably isn't the best plan.

You made me smile today Ethilds, thx!

 

[Muylaetrix]

Clearly Mythic want us removed from the game, and are just thinking of was to fuck us over .

no...

it seems like you`ll have to group in stealher groups to become efective.

let me draw an analogy.

WW2. submarine war. in the beginning, sumbarines destroyed everything, then as time went by, anti sumbarine measures made submarine work increasingly difficult (convoying, destroyers, sonar, improved air searches) and the submarines started using wolf pack tactics... sumbarines working toghether to take out convoys, and it worked again.

same situation now.

fewer and fewer classes (need speed, CC, LT, pet, or as much of those as possible at the same time) are able to effectively solo and get satisfying results.

adapt or die.

i feel sorry for the stealhers who attacked me while i had gradiuus straped to me, and i can only say `well done` to those few solo stealhers who managed to take out both me and gradi when duo. also well played to those stealher groups who took us on and showed the true potential of a well played wolf pack. grats to stealher groups who can land 3 pa`s on a caster in 1 second !!!

unless you are reasonably high RR, got top notch gear and quality buffs, solo stealthers are becomming more and more ... obsolete.

THERE IS NO SHAME IN GROUPING AS A STEALHER !

don`t be a masochist !

what are you trying to prove ?

to who ?

what was this topic about again ?

agh stealher balance, my rant was on topic

 

[Aiteal]

no...

it seems like you`ll have to group in stealher groups to become efective.
.......

THERE IS NO SHAME IN GROUPING AS A STEALHER !

don`t be a masochist !

what are you trying to prove ?

to who ?

what was this topic about again ?

agh stealher balance, my rant was on topic

Mythic has time and time again answered requests for "groupable" abilities on stealthers with the answer
"some classes are not meant to be groupable"
Then again, mythic also said that archers should however be highly desirable in groups due to their high damage

Mythic would quite happily remove stealthers from the game if they could get away with it, thats not a self-pitying paranoid whine, thats just the way it is.
WAR wont have stealthers

Funny how you "a groupable class" recomend to classes that mythic maintains are not groupable to group up
especially to be able to take on a "groupable class" thats running round with a bot stuck to it.

Thats not a flame btw
Thats just an indicator of how wrong things have gone.

 

[Nuklear]

Casters with DI bots for the win NOT

 

[Gear]

You know turning from someone with a bow probably isn't the best plan.

Reaply dot when you hit the garrote, not the difficult to figure out really

"Warguard = garote and take off. Return after it's down and finish the job."

So if a ranger have warlord I just... garrote and stumble away? lol, your worthless retard. Rangers are heavy as it is, with warlord it will be absurd.

Thank you for playing against me in a game you know nothing about.

 

[Bondoila]

so archers is out ot the question for assassins now?

Especially rangers

Think fz will be scary on assasin vs a ranger, ps for malice ...

Like soj line alot on my ranger but will probably pick warlord to get wg if thats the case mostly beacuse of the 10 min timer instead of 15(ps fz).

Will more likely think that archers will have a harder time with a soj assasin even having wg since the only thing they hade before was the dot which you could lower with rota.

sum: archers gets a more powerfull line and so do assasins.

 

[Solari]

Think fz will be scary on assasin vs a ranger, ps for malice ...

Like soj line alot on my ranger but will probably pick warlord to get wg if thats the case mostly beacuse of the 10 min timer instead of 15(ps fz).

Will more likely think that archers will have a harder time with a soj assasin even having wg since the only thing they hade before was the dot which you could lower with rota.

sum: archers gets a more powerfull line and so do assasins.

To the honest with you maet I hardly doubt sojo is a better choice than spymaster...

FZ is overrated comparted to poisonspike...

 

[Nuxtobatns]

To the honest with you maet I hardly doubt sojo is a better choice than spymaster...

FZ is overrated comparted to poisonspike...

Poisonspike effect is much less with the resist buff u will get from Sojouner line..plus u get FZ+trap uncovering and disable+teleport when u cant find enemies/get buff sheared+ml9 to escape maybe something
Oh yeah..i think i will stay Spymaster..poisonspike for less effect and a mezz poison...if not blocked/evaded/parried and if not CB charge and if not purge up
I guess the best thing an assassin could do is Sojouner imo...given these options

 

[Puppet]

Poisonspike effect is much less with the resist buff u will get from Sojouner line..plus u get FZ+trap uncovering and disable+teleport when u cant find enemies/get buff sheared+ml9 to escape maybe something

LOL.. Teleporting is useless for that, just suicide on a keep or so. Hardly a big deal. Trap uncovering and disable, Im sure u gonna unstealth to check around a GT u set for traps, then unstealth for 5+ seconds to cast the 'remove spell'... NOT !

Forceful Zephyr yeah nice, except it doesnt work reliably on bridges, or anything with even the smallest bump in the terrain (You cannot see your groundtarget!) or simply miss it due to 'fill in whatever stupid reason'. Then there's Phaseshift, roughly translated as 'U die 15 seconds later' in open field fights.

 

[Solari]

Poisonspike effect is much less with the resist buff u will get from Sojouner line..plus u get FZ+trap uncovering and disable+teleport when u cant find enemies/get buff sheared+ml9 to escape maybe something
Oh yeah..i think i will stay Spymaster..poisonspike for less effect and a mezz poison...if not blocked/evaded/parried and if not CB charge and if not purge up
I guess the best thing an assassin could do is Sojouner imo...given these options

Not everyone you fight will have the Resilience of the Ancients :>

FZ is already covered, Reveal / Destroy crystal seed + Gateway / Mass Gateway => completely useless.

Phaseshift - Looking at your comment I won't really give you an answer since you clearly have no experience at all with the ability.

If you are ready to blow purge on a mezz poison I dread for you the day you play an "archer" in melee.

 

[Bondoila]

What puppet said about the zephry actually do suck, however the fz(when you get it away) grants you some really nice high dmg hits frombehind.
PS is probably the best toy in soj and that one makes you able to control malice axe. You can kinda make sure that you always have the positive effect from it and in alot of cases make the oponent get the negative one.

Typical senario: (fz->oponent, oponent->uses malice,ps->oponent with negative effect)
Typical senario2:Use malice on inc->ps when negative

Maby it's just me but I rather have rota up all the time, access to fz and ps then the dot for some extra dmg. I can still understand that alot will pick dot also because of the silly 15 min on ps and fz, but there is no doubt that the soj assasins will win vs the spy assasins, when the soj toys are up. Soj assasins will also have a more or less granted win vs a mage every 15 min.

 

[Nuxtobatns]

freezing combat for u when the timered abilities of your enemy run is invalueable some times (ml dumping or prolly even after getting PAed so that u cant be stunned and ps getting negated if the enemy drops after PA)
I have heard that FZ has some probs especially on slopes...but that can be overcome
and y..sometimes u can get a nice time window to disable a trap that u know is there and bugging u.
The only question is : can u use phaseshift even when u r ooe ?
Aint the resistance of the ancients being made into a 20 min buff with 2-3 sec cast time ?

 

[Bondoila]

The only question is : can u use phaseshift even when u r ooe ?
Aint the resistance of the ancients being made into a 20 min buff with 2-3 sec cast time ?

-rota is 20 min so is up all the time.
-You can't ps when ooe, so make sure your not drained.

 

[anioal]

Actually PS takes 50% endu when casted... you dont have 50%+ endu, you cant cast it.

All in all sojo has a very nice utility overall and my ranger will prolly stay as sojo.

porting is nice, not only from rvr but from all the places
merchant is nice
the water breath is great
fz is iwin vs most casters (at least for my ranger) and not only
rota is nice especialy now when it is a 20 mins buff
PS, no need to mention it

The only almost useless is the detect/destroy traps abilities cause they work only against convo traps. Think i used them about 5 times since i got them.

 

[Meradesh]

The 3rd ML was canceled, or am I missing something?

 

[Starbursts]

What The Fuck Warlocks Able To Get Fop They Can Camp For Fucking Ages Now That Just Suks

 

[Danord_durin]

What The Fuck Warlocks Able To Get Fop They Can Camp For Fucking Ages Now That Just Suks

U might have missed animists also get it. Wich 1 of those would u think its the worst And what does it have to do with stealther ballance

 

[Shike]

zzz u guys really dont read herald I think

The third MLline is called off by Mythic, because of the negative feedback about it.

The third MLline is called off by Mythic, because of the negative feedback about it.

The third MLline is called off by Mythic, because of the negative feedback about it.

The third MLline is called off by Mythic, because of the negative feedback about it.

The third MLline is called off by Mythic, because of the negative feedback about it.

Ok, incase someone missed it!

The third MLline is called off by Mythic, because of the negative feedback about it.
The third MLline is called off by Mythic, because of the negative feedback about it.
The third MLline is called off by Mythic, because of the negative feedback about it.

there we go.

 

[Gear]

Anyone knows if the third ML line is called of?

 

[Puppet]

Anyone knows if the third ML line is called of?

Heard something about it, but cant find the details. Tho Shike is often quite good with that stuff, perhaps he can enlighten us ?

 

[Azathrim]

What Mythic said was, that it "probably" is called off.

In other words, it seems extremely unlikely to happen, but an official stance have not been given, yet.

My guess is, that when 1.84 releases it's the deal. If the third ML line is, or is not, in that patch it's the deciding factor.

And, 1.84 is drawing ever closer to a release ...

Link for their post on it.

 

[Shike]

Heard something about it, but cant find the details. Tho Shike is often quite good with that stuff, perhaps he can enlighten us ?