1.90c - Theurg Nerf/Armsman Nerf

[Manisch Depressiv]

Yep, BG from the arms on our tanks instead from the merc, reaver, minstrel in offence on our casters. Armsmen also stand in a far away corner in the fight, completely away from the casters he's supposed to bodyguard so you can easily avoid him, but then again you've proved again and again that you have no clue about positioning in this game, you even made a movie documentary on the subject. A sheared arms will disable a tank just the same, just less damage. You can't cc them, they are unkillable in 8vs8 terms and a very skilled player (like yourself) can easily disable a tank with them with 2 buttons.

Made a big buck in the fertilizer business yet btw?

No, I haven't. But I'd prolly sell you first as a big load of it .

Quite funny with that movie comment - I never said that there was any special positioning in it. The mistakes there are quite obvious Sherlock, thanks for bringing it up. (In the movie you released I see a Shaman who is casting free most of the time but that has nothing to do with your special ability to position yourself well but to the enemies who didn't bother or due to your disease farting. So I might as well laugh in your face for showing fights where no one bothers to interrupt a Shammy. At least my enemy Shammy had to MoC .)

Anyway, back on topic. You lost it somehow, run out of arguments you never had? Right at the start the anytime snare was so much OP according to you that it needed a nerf, now it's a half a group with a Merc, Minstrel, Reaver and Armsman that is a problem for you. How about you do a theoretical walk through of a FG versus FG fight, maybe with some table top figures and a watch clock?

That any time snare is in the game for a long time, maybe you started losing some more fights recently and that's why you're whining? Just an assumption.

I don't see you getting away from a 2H or Pole Armsman, it makes no difference really with the snare and the example you gave is theorethical bullshit, pre DR boost most group Armsmen were 2H and that's because of the better utlity in the 2H line for peeling: snare/stun with kick ass damage.

So once again, if you ask to nerf an idiot who is spamming any time snare with laughable damage (did you even compare it?!) you might as well ask to nerf the 2H line which is in place so strong because of the double speccing need.

 

[aika]

its really funny to hear all those whines about alb tanks, being the only realm in which you need to double spec,the only realm whose light tanks dont have a backstyle snare or even any decent style in its DW line. Also if you spam crippling blow all the time you will go ooe very fast, even with paladin end regen chant.

 

[Everz]

its really funny to hear all those whines about alb tanks, being the only realm in which you need to double spec,the only realm whose light tanks dont have a backstyle snare or even any decent style in its DW line. Also if you spam crippling blow all the time you will go ooe very fast, even with paladin end regen chant.

Armsmen dealed insane dmg for a frontal styles. DW has a decent style or two.. dual shadows anyone?.. and no you dont go ooe very fast spamming crippling blow.

 

[kirennia]

Armsman anytime snare isn't about damage... they don't really need to do damage in the first part, the rest of the group will do it for them if they play right. Having a well played armsman in the oppositions group is a significant advantage, so long as the group is upto decent standards as well. They can effectively nullify mid/hib tanks quite well with minimal effort. It's all well and good saying 'dont get close to them' but if you're a melee char, you're going to get close to pretty much every char in the enemies group.

It's not that they can deal massive damage with it, it's the fact that an armsman can stop a number of people doing anything at all. It might well be a biased view, coming from a tank group but they CAN be the most annoying character to fight against out of anyone, including theurgists (from my pov) with minimal effort.

As for the DR nerf, well deserved. One of the easiest classes in solo play just got a scratch in their armour. Doom!

 

[noaim]

I love to see Manisch tell Eleasias (or pretty much anyone for that matter) how things work in 8 vs 8. Soon he will call his mom and give her a lesson in how to give birth to stupid people.

 

[aika]

Armsmen dealed insane dmg for a frontal styles. DW has a decent style or two.. dual shadows anyone?.. and no you dont go ooe very fast spamming crippling blow.

How much times exactly do you pull dual shadows in a FG fight? And even then whats decent about it? The bleed effect?
I didnt play mine for a long time,so maybe the changed the end usage of it, but I remember running ooe often while using it.

 

[Eruptix]

manisch why do u succeed in taking on forum-battles with ppl who are better & smarter then you,and losing them every time & time again?
havent you realized yet u should keep your mouth shut before anything more stupid slips out ? :<


edit:theurg nerf was so unneeded :/

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I love to see Manisch tell Eleasias (or pretty much anyone for that matter) how things work in 8 vs 8. Soon he will call his mom and give her a lesson in how to give birth to stupid people.

*plonk*

 

[swords]

You can:

[x] Don't get close to the Armsman, he has no charge,
[x] Get snare immunity, and don't tell me that you can't get snare immunity, lots spam AoE roots leads often to root immunity which makes you immune to snare.

Oh ok, so i'll just avoid the armsman in future, jee didn't think about that! I'll just spend the whole fight avoiding one class and not doing my interupt job, fucking uber shaman play then ofc.
I rarely get snared by albs since they chuck pets at me or the tanks try taking me down asap (only kobold in the group), why give away snare immunity when you have tanks who can abuse the fuck out of it?

 

[MegaMaejter]

I don't get it, you join the threads where I comment on class balance, accusing me of stupidity with some one liners and once one gets to talk to you about something your shine with pure idiocy. Maybe time to stop the comments then on me?

How do you sprint away fast exactly? There is one sprinting speed. Armsman have the same sprinting speed. If you face him to neglate the side/behind snares/stuns and start to run away, he will follow and snare you again.

Such a brilliant idea. (you were mentioning some good played Armsman in the RvR section.)

Man you take the piss time after time, you got no clue about anything do you?

First of all you start your posting in this thread calling him clueless/whiner not the other way around, take your pills man.

2ndly, his point about the sprint tactic is valid and everyone who done some 8v8 and ain't useless knows about it. Obviously you are that useless manich.

Why don't you ask your parents to take you to the vet and be put down or just take your pills, whatever works.

Plum.


/edit,

On a serious note, how come they nerf Armsman's DR growth due to it beeing "too high compared to other frontal position styles" when the only other frontal style (? ) is the valewalker one and it has 1.31 with a 1.55 with 150 heat dd proc as follow up compared to the arms 1.2 with 0.9 follwup?...

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Oh ok, so i'll just avoid the armsman in future, jee didn't think about that! I'll just spend the whole fight avoiding one class and not doing my interupt job, fucking uber shaman play then ofc.
I rarely get snared by albs since they chuck pets at me or the tanks try taking me down asap (only kobold in the group), why give away snare immunity when you have tanks who can abuse the fuck out of it?

No idea why you're whining about snare as a Shaman. Might as well whine about a dedicated shearer with 2.0 seconds cast time shears. It's all pointless.

But funny to see nevertheless how good players QQ just about everything.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Man you take the piss time after time, you got no clue about anything do you?

First of all you start your posting in this thread calling him clueless/whiner not the other way around, take your pills man.

2ndly, his point about the sprint tactic is valid and everyone who done some 8v8 and ain't useless knows about it. Obviously you are that useless manich.

Why don't you ask your parents to take you to the vet and be put down or just take your pills, whatever works.

Plum.


/edit,

On a serious note, how come they nerf Armsman's DR growth due to it beeing "too high compared to other frontal position styles" when the only other frontal style (? ) is the valewalker one and it has 1.31 with a 1.55 with 150 heat dd proc as follow up compared to the arms 1.2 with 0.9 follwup?...

You might want to check the style library on the herald and check for front positional styles.

And who are you again?

 

[swords]

No idea why you're whining about snare as a Shaman. Might as well whine about a dedicated shearer with 2.0 seconds cast time shears. It's all pointless.

But funny to see nevertheless how good players QQ just about everything.

Avoiding 2/3rd in chain snare, possible with skill. Possible to escape from.
Avoiding side or rear positional snare, possible with skill. Possible to escape from.
Avoiding anytime spammable snare, impossible. Impossible to escape from.

I have no tool which enables me to escape from an Armsman, because his snare is better than anything I can do to him. Stuff which you can't counter in this game is annoying and frustrating at times, like pre-nerf left axe dmg and silly savage quad hitting (if you were a healing class then, you know what I mean). It's like trying to play rock/paper/scissors except you can only choose scissors, you can't do dick to stop it.

Oh and shearing buffs... rebuff, OMG COUNTERED THE SHEAR.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Avoiding 2/3rd in chain snare, possible with skill. Possible to escape from.
Avoiding side or rear positional snare, possible with skill. Possible to escape from.
Avoiding anytime spammable snare, impossible. Impossible to escape from.

I have no tool which enables me to escape from an Armsman, because his snare is better than anything I can do to him. Stuff which you can't counter in this game is annoying and frustrating at times, like pre-nerf left axe dmg and silly savage quad hitting (if you were a healing class then, you know what I mean). It's like trying to play rock/paper/scissors except you can only choose scissors, you can't do dick to stop it.

Oh and shearing buffs... rebuff, OMG COUNTERED THE SHEAR.

It's possible in a group, someone can grapple the Armsman or melee stun him (can be purged though) and CC him for a short duration after or disease or snare and you can escape. There are more unlikely options too: disarm, pulsing mezz or kill :_>.

If you watch it from a 1 vs 1 I might as well whine about not being able to come close to a Shaman or other random stuff, but I thought this was about groups.

 

[noaim]

Even if armsmen are overpowered in fg rvr, I find it funny that people who rolled from alb to mid, and runs with valkyrie in grp, now thinks arms are overpowered. Valk is not that bad in fg rvr either, and thane as bg is insanely good.

 

[Ctuchik]

Why don't you ask your parents to take you to the vet and be put down or just take your pills, whatever works.

nice "die irl" hint there..

 

[swords]

Even if armsmen are overpowered in fg rvr, I find it funny that people who rolled from alb to mid, and runs with valkyrie in grp, now thinks arms are overpowered. Valk is not that bad in fg rvr either, and thane as bg is insanely good.

I never said arms are OP in FG RvR, I meerly query the wisdom of such a powerful anytime style. A more annoying class would have to be a valewalker, since they can just disease you right back and instaroot to catch up. At least you get root immunity if you manage to escape the first time though, none of this spamming one button crap. Wouldn't complain if it was a rear snare, thats avoidable unless you are unlucky of stand there like a lemon while he positions around you.
You kinda need a valk these days too, since Sup BDs got hammered, or the BG'd casters just fuck you over in a full tank group. Theurg range nerf was needed tbh, they are so OP its silly (I freely admitted they were OP even in alb, so you can't do the ''ooh now they moved Mid lalala'' thing)
Prefer Mauler to thane, Nice RR5, short dur pulsing snare (not as potent as the arms one, even when the target is diseased before you mention stacking), other spec toys and moderate damage, personal preference though.

 

[MegaMaejter]

You might want to check the style library on the herald and check for front positional styles.

And who are you again?

Oh, the "who are you again" reply.

Was I not supposed to be ignored again? You spill so much crap around you it's just stunning. Makes for funny reading though, laughing at your baised views and twisted, borderline degenerated statements.

And what other 2h frontal position styles is there but vws and armsmen? I can't think of any, and obviously you can't either since else you would been the 1st one to mention it, so again I'm asking what other classes have 2h frontal position?

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I never said arms are OP in FG RvR, I meerly query the wisdom of such a powerful anytime style. A more annoying class would have to be a valewalker, since they can just disease you right back and instaroot to catch up. At least you get root immunity if you manage to escape the first time though, none of this spamming one button crap. Wouldn't complain if it was a rear snare, thats avoidable unless you are unlucky of stand there like a lemon while he positions around you.
You kinda need a valk these days too, since Sup BDs got hammered, or the BG'd casters just fuck you over in a full tank group. Theurg range nerf was needed tbh, they are so OP its silly (I freely admitted they were OP even in alb, so you can't do the ''ooh now they moved Mid lalala'' thing)
Prefer Mauler to thane, Nice RR5, short dur pulsing snare (not as potent as the arms one, even when the target is diseased before you mention stacking), other spec toys and moderate damage, personal preference though.

Less typing, more movie editing tbh!

 

[swords]

It's possible in a group, someone can grapple the Armsman or melee stun him (can be purged though) and CC him for a short duration after or disease or snare and you can escape. There are more unlikely options too: disarm, pulsing mezz or kill :_>.

If you watch it from a 1 vs 1 I might as well whine about not being able to come close to a Shaman or other random stuff, but I thought this was about groups.

Ofc its possible in a group, but don't you think its kinda odd that its on an anytime style from a design pov? Plus the fact you can spam them on one person without giving them immunity? pretty much everything else was given immunity timers since you used to spend most of the time chain mezzed back in the day. I'm all for that, the only reason disease doesnn't give immunity is because its so easily cured with perfector, though I wouldn't be upset if they made disease give immunity either. Castable snares give immunity, melee snares don't? makes no sense to me *shrug*

 

[MegaMaejter]

Ofc its possible in a group, but don't you think its kinda odd that its on an anytime style from a design pov? Plus the fact you can spam them on one person without giving them immunity? pretty much everything else was given immunity timers since you used to spend most of the time chain mezzed back in the day. I'm all for that, the only reason disease doesnn't give immunity is because its so easily cured with perfector, though I wouldn't be upset if they made disease give immunity either. Castable snares give immunity, melee snares don't? makes no sense to me *shrug*

Well the styles growth is really low, around what 0.4? You don't really do any damage with it. Also Valks have the same "oped" style in shield line ( Pin ), but its nonebreakable as none immunity and since your playing mid now, whinging about the arms abil is abit petty no?. If anyone should be whining it might be hibs but they got stun + nukex4 casters so they ain't really entitled to bitch about it.

Also trying to make an argument about none immunity timer on it isn't really juste. There is plenty of abils in daoc that you don't have immunity to. Disease beeing the most annoying thing NOT to have immunity against, both in fg/zerg and small scale rvr. [Though not so much in fg rvr due to grp cure disease beeing very fast from ML line]

Still I don't see why the anytime snare should be considered OPed.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Oh, the "who are you again" reply.

Was I not supposed to be ignored again? You spill so much crap around you it's just stunning. Makes for funny reading though, laughing at your baised views and twisted, borderline degenerated statements.

And what other 2h frontal position styles is there but vws and armsmen? I can't think of any, and obviously you can't either since else you would been the 1st one to mention it, so again I'm asking what other classes have 2h frontal position?

Read the patch notes again, it covers all front positional styles and there are more than just 2 - not in the 2H-line though.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Ofc its possible in a group, but don't you think its kinda odd that its on an anytime style from a design pov? Plus the fact you can spam them on one person without giving them immunity? pretty much everything else was given immunity timers since you used to spend most of the time chain mezzed back in the day. I'm all for that, the only reason disease doesnn't give immunity is because its so easily cured with perfector, though I wouldn't be upset if they made disease give immunity either. Castable snares give immunity, melee snares don't? makes no sense to me *shrug*

It's a problem with the snare immunity per se and not the style. I agree, it should be changed somehow.

 

[swords]

Stuff

Disease immunity wouldn't break its usefulness so I don't mind as long as its an across the board modification, same with snares. Don't see any reason why they should avoid the issue compared to stuns/me/root. Pin is a bit wierd too, fine its unbreakable but spammable too, same thing as arms so if you change one both should be changed.

 

[aika]

Oh, the "who are you again" reply.

Was I not supposed to be ignored again? You spill so much crap around you it's just stunning. Makes for funny reading though, laughing at your baised views and twisted, borderline degenerated statements.

And what other 2h frontal position styles is there but vws and armsmen? I can't think of any, and obviously you can't either since else you would been the 1st one to mention it, so again I'm asking what other classes have 2h frontal position?

hib LW line has frontal assault

 

[aika]

nerf edit timer, Havoc is also a frontal in the axe line, which can be 2h.

 

[BloodOmen]

And no one has mentioned good armsmen because any monkey can spam anytime snare.

No such thing as a good armsman since SI days imo although I do agree its the snare that needed the nerf bat.

 

[Shike]

nice theurgnerf, was about time for sure, thats a more proper nerf than the stupid restriction in 1.90b.

About armsman.. nice that they did nerf DR, it was a stupid style if you look at it from a soloers perspective. The newbietimesnare however do need to go but.. I cant see that happen anytime soon. They should give mercs a from behindsnare of some sorts and remove anytimesnare from armsman, would make it better overall imo.

 

[kirennia]

Well the styles growth is really low, around what 0.4? You don't really do any damage with it. Also Valks have the same "oped" style in shield line ( Pin ), but its nonebreakable as none immunity and since your playing mid now, whinging about the arms abil is abit petty no?.

Doesn't the armsman one last for a significantly longer amount of time as well as have a +to hit bonus on it? Am guessing with armsmans massively larger weaponskill, it'd land a lot more often as well, AND it isn't a sheild skill working off of a hidden lower weaponskill in itself.

 

[Lamp]

How could they nerf the Armsman ? Its already crap ! They should be giving some Armsman love instead.