1.51D on Herald!

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Zilch
Wow some nice changes.......but arent the wizards a bit to powerfull now......

Not really... they've added some utility AoE's and a DoT to the totally underused earth spec...

It does mean that the average fire wiz (with spares in earth) can hit you for a 4 second stun with damage instead of a normal AoE with far more damage...

Full (or mostly) earth specced wizards will be quite a viable spec now ... Expect to see more than 1 of them on a server
of course they've not got any proper direct damage spells... they have to use baseline ice or fire in which case they'll be out of mana like a shot...

Fire is still the damage master, earth will be the area effect master with ice somewhere in the middle....

Theres actually use to spec other than full in one line as a wizard once 1.51 gets here... yay

 

[Tigerius]

Re-poll: Who's the biggest baby, the players whining over a char they've devoted and commited alot to getting nerfed, or the people who applaud when a class they are having problems with in RvR gets nerfed?

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Tigerius
Re-poll: Who's the biggest baby, the players whining over a char they've devoted and commited alot to getting nerfed, or the people who applaud when a class they are having problems with in RvR gets nerfed?

I don't really understand the question.

Getting you char you spent months developing nerfed sure hurts I guess. But also getting repeatedly owned in RvR by a blatantly overpowered and almost invincible classes also hurts. Nerfs hurt the indivdual. Overpowed classes unbalance the entire game.

 

[old.Lianuchta]

Well Wizards now have an AE Stun and a an AE DD in the same line, that does kinda scare me.

A full spec Earth Wizard can now AE stun for 9secs and then launch 2-3 AE DDs.

This patch is not finished yet though, other classes will get some loving too if the posts of the Hib Mage TLs is anything to go by. I do hope they give us Void Elds something nice, like fixing our bolts, or reducing the dmg dropoff on our AE DD's or maybe even giving us a non-Cold Spec DD.

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by chesnor

blatantly overpowered and almost invincible classes

Listen to yourself? I can agree a Cleric can do a bit too many things well but how do you justify blatantly overpowered? Almost invicible? Try using stun, you know the one all Hibbie mages have, it's what kills me the most. Next to the usual group mez and individually ganked by 4

Nor do I see how a simple DD can ruin your fun of the game, there's only 2 spells in my mind that do that those are Stun and Mez. Admittedly the Cleric possess both in a weaker version, pointing out once again that while the Cleric has utility it doesn't rival other classes in terms of offensive/CC power.

As for Earth Wizards being overpowered, first of all realise until this patch about 0.1% of the Wizards were Earth and even after it most who try will get discouraged leveling. Once respec gets implemented we could actually get to see a few sure. Their AoE DD is fairly weak too remember that.

Eldritch TLs think they should have more stuff? *cries* They should play Wizards.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Tigerius

<snip>
Admittedly the Cleric possess both in a weaker version, pointing out once again that while the Cleric has utility it doesn't rival other classes in terms of offensive/CC power.

Errrr..precisely which classes does a fully specced smite Cleric not rival in terms of offensive power. I was frequently hit by Gromit for 500+ in emain. So the guy gets chain, insta heals, insta mezz, single target stun, dmg add buff (conveniently placed in his smite line, so that 9.2dps @ slvl40), a medium shield AND smites me for 500+ dmg.

The clerics offense owns that of a Healer (who has precisely no offense other than an unspecced hammer, and a dmg add buff in the useless and unspecced AUG line), oh and I get a small shield.

So explain which 'comparable' classes the cleric doesn't rival, please....

 

[Belsameth]

Originally posted by SilverHood
why does a healer need self buff spec line??

it's not like they are soloing or anything....

actually, I do solo if I'm in dire need of cash
each extra self buff is needed then

 

[old.Breydel]

Solid, I play a warden, not a bard. And I dinged 46 yesterday during a DF crawl, woot. Been to a lot of ugly mobs deep down in DF. Afterwards we distributed the rare loot drops and I got myself a nice pair of 98 AF scale gauntlets. They even have a proccing damage shield (20 seconds duration) at level 49.


Support classes in Hibernia are quite good yes. The ultimate group (whether it's for PvE or RvR) usually at least includes a warden and a bard. With a few wardens/bards/mentalists you can even get a group going without a druid (not recommended though). A group with 2 wardens with stacked bubbles (forming a 3s pulsing bladeturn) don't really need much healing and bards/ments usually don't mind helping to heal. Of course with the lack of a druid you miss out on all the 'yellow buffs' (spec buffs).

This is how I think a near perfect Hibernian group looks like.

For PvE PBAE exping against fins:
1. warden
2. bard
3. druid
4. mentalist (preferrably crack 3 and good light) or PBAE mage
5. hero
6. support melee (nightshade, ranger, champ, ...)
7. PBAE mage
8. PBAE mage or 4th melee class


For RvR
1. Bard
2. warden
3. druid
4. hero
5. nuker
6. ranger
7. support melee
8. support melee or another nuker


As you see in both cases wardens and bards are included. And what I like so much about wardens is that they stack into groups very well. 2 wardens can go 6s PBT/dmg chant or 3s PBT. 3 wardens in a group can go 3sPBT/dmg chant. When I was levelling breydel on midgard (skald) in v1.36 I was really tired of hearing "sorry, we already have a skald". That class doesn't stack well in groups, wardens do extremely well.

 

[Tigerius]

In another thread I posted a little comparison between Cleric DDs and the DDs of a few other classes. The result were fairly simple, even pre-patch does the Cleric specline DDs achieve lower dmg/cast second than cloth-caster baseline DDs. Far below their specline DDs.

After this patch, a cleric specline DD has almost HALF the dmg/cast second of a Runemaster.

These comparisons take no regards to range (cleric has worst), crits (cleric has none), power cost (cleric has high esp. without focus items), and the general bad thing in having a high cast time DD.

That's the strict damage comparison. It doesn't even include bolts that the strict offensive casters have, that far exceeds DD dmg. What's more.. ah yes other offensive capabilities. Hibernian mages have the same stun Clerics do, except longer range and quickcast. Runemasters have root, quickcast and oh that little longrange spell called nearsight. As good as all cloth casters have root, most have debuffs, several have mez. Cleric mez is while definately powerful, special, limited. Sometimes better sometimes worse. Again I repeat, Cleric has utility but rivals only the admittedly gimped pet-mages for offensive power.

Edit: You must be low con to him then, or have negative spirit resist. Otherwise I'd strongly doubt 500+ can be achieved. I say get some spirit resist, it's real easy, and try again.

 

[old.chesnor]

Clerics are acolytes. Thats Albion healing classes. You cannot expect that the pure offensive dmg output of a healing class to approach that of a clothed mage. Ever.

And I apologise it wasn't 500+....here is the log :-

[20:03:43] You are hit for 410 damage.
[20:03:44] @@[Chat] Chesnor: "they got me"
[20:03:46] You are hit for 410 damage.
[20:03:50] You've been in combat recently, the spell has no effect on you!
[20:03:50] You are hit for 410 damage.
[20:03:50] Chesnor was just killed by Gromit!

Thats 3x 410 smites in 7 secs. Thats is UBER dmg output......no matter which way you look at it. And Gromit was an orange cons to me, I was lvl46 at this time.

 

[Vell]

The cleric's damage capacity should be compared to that of the other primary healers: Healer and Druid. Not to the high damage nukers of each realm. The cleric is not, and should not, be a nuker.
Runemaster may hit for more damage than clerics, but you have chain armour, twice the hp, stun, mezz, heals, insta heal, the best buffs in the game etc...
Are clerics an overpowered class? Yes. Sorry, but the answer is yes.

 

[Solid]

And they took this long to aknowledge and mini-nerf the cleric even tho their Overpowering has been documented and discussed since only a few months into US release, taken Mythic best part of 6 montsh to nerf (Read: try to balance) Clerics.

As a whole Albion classes dont really get negative balancing changes to them, whereas Middie and Hib classes do.

OR what is more often the case, any cross realm balance chanmges, liek to archers, effects albion classes the least, with all the archer nerfs, I think Scouts came out the most viable from the 3 realms.

Sometimes I feel Mythic has an subconsious (or consious) bias towards Albion

 

[Tigerius]

Right.. 410 seems alot more plausible than 500+. And if you consider the cast time of the first smite (not the second at which you recieved damage of it) that's about 1230 in 11 seconds. It's alot yeah but realistically no less than you can expect from most offensive classes unless you have high resists.

Yes this is Albions acolyte class.. no less one that has chosen to spec 48! in one line, for a class with 1x spec. You ought to get something useful out of that shouldn't you? You can sit and say that it shouldn't be a nuker but god damnit Mythic made them one, they gave them the option to be. Now they take that away and offer nothing in return.

I can agree it was a questionable choice giving DDs to a Healing class in the first place, but it was done and something you could pay a high price to get. Never did it truly match that of a cloth caster but with enough spec sure it could kill people easily. Now it seems a bit of a joke specline, as I said Cleric DDs are now close to HALF the strength of a RMs, not accounting for several factors. Baseline nukes of any cloth caster beats spec 48 nukes of a Cleric, both prior to and even more so after the patch. With this patch I'd without a doubt give up Smiting line for Pacification line and get better crowd control than any albion cloth caster.

Smiting specline just aint giving it's specs worth anymore unless you even more than before choose to throw all you have in it in a desperate attempt to get some offensive power. They could have atleast replaced this with something. You realise that the real loosers in this are the people who put a mediocre amount in smiting, to still fulfill their primary job but be able to defend themselves and assist in combat.

 

[old.chesnor]

You are sounding like one of those whiners on the VN boards. "smite is now gimped whine, whine, whine". The nerf is about 20% reduction in dmg....20% think about that.

Lets look at those logs post-nerf....

[20:03:43] You are hit for 328 damage.
[20:03:44] @@[Chat] Chesnor: "they got me"
[20:03:46] You are hit for 328 damage.
[20:03:50] You've been in combat recently, the spell has no effect on you!
[20:03:50] You are hit for 328 damage.
[20:03:50] Chesnor was just killed by Gromit!

Thats still 984dmg in 11secs. Show me a chain wearing, self buffing, insta healing, insta mezzing, stunning, medium shield wearing class that can do that kind of RANGED dmg ??? You actually won't find many chain wearing melee classes doing that kind of dmg over time. Let alone at distance.

Me, I still say the smite line is uber. Your'e just whining because it's not as MASSIVELY uber as it once was.

 

[Tigerius]

Or we can put say 15% spirit resistance on you (shouldn't be hard at all) and make you even con. And watch his damage be more like 700 in an 11 second time period.

You seem to get stuck on what else we can do, fact is apart from the instaheals there is little else a 48 smite specced cleric has. Yes the abilities are still there, but their power are always hollowed out and weakend in comparison.

What damage do you think a self buffing stealthing studded wearing longer ranged class like Ranger does in that time period? Are you telling me a spear hero barely does 700 in 11 seconds? Christ he does almost that in a hit. Bet you Armsmen can also easily achieve 700 in 11 secs.

Bet you a Mana spec Eldritch can come close to that in 1 hit too with his PBAoE.

As for statements that nerfs always seem to affect Albion classes less? such general statements especially unbacked just come out silly. I could go tell you that Alb fighters and Alb cloth casters are already the most gimped, but why bother you wouldn't listen and I don't care to rant about that.

 

[old.chesnor]

The spirit resist argument is moot. I wasn't going to load up on spirit res just so smite clerics didn't own me. There are void eldritches, fire wizards, thrust polearsman running around the frontiers too you know.

And polearmsman and spear heros can do that kind of dmg over time, for sure, but f**k all else. And eldritches march across Emain in paper armour. My healer could batter a stunned eldritch into the ground before the stun wore off if I got the jump. Same couldn't be said for a cleric.....

Also a 48 specced lvl50 cleric can still spec rejuv to 23 for 2 insta heals !!!!!

Your arguments are just so lame. You were THE daoc uberclass. You ARE still in the top #10 of daoc classes. Stop whining and deal with it.

 

[Tigerius]

I don't see you coming with any arguments yourself? Just opinions over and over. Excuses over and over.

Here are some facts:

Classes who are represtend in the top 5 in RPs on each US srv:
Ranger - 10
Scout - 8
Nightshade - 6
Skald, Cleric - 5
Minstrel, Healer, Wizard - 4
Infiltrator, Rune Master, Shadowblade - 3
Hero, Mentalist, Druid, Thane- 2
Armsman, Sorcerer, Theurgist, Bard, Champion, Eldritch, Enchanter, Hunter, Warrior - 1
Cabalist, Friar, Mercenary, Paladin, Blademaster, Warden, Beserker, Shaman, Spirit Master - 0

Cleric is the top RP holder on a total of 1 server.
There's a total of 4% Clerics in the top 25 on each server.
There are 0 Clerics in Mordred (PvP server) lists.

BASE 50 Cleric = 42.33 dmg/CT sec (Post-1.51d)
SPEC 48 Cleric = 43.75 dmg/CT sec (Post-1.51d)
BASE 50 Cleric = 51 dmg/CT sec (Pre-1.51d)
SPEC 48 Cleric = 56.25 dmg/CT sec (Pre-1.51d)
BASE 47 Eldritch = 57.3 dmg/CT sec (Void)
BASE 48 Runemaster = 58.7 dmg/CT sec (Rune)
BASE 50 Runemaster = 60 dmg/CT sec (Dark)
BASE 43 Spiritmaster = 60 dmg/CT sec
BASE 50 Mentalist = 69.2 dmg/CT sec
BASE 50 Enchanter = 69.2 dmg/CT sec
BASE 50 Eldritch = 69.2 dmg/CT sec (Light)
SPEC 47 Wizard = 73.3 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 45 Eldritch = 74.6 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 47 Theurgist = 74.6 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 45 Sorceror = 75 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 45 Mentalist = 75 dmg/CT sec
SPEC 47 Runemaster = 78.6 dmg/CT sec
(CT = Cast time)

Smite has shorter range than any other DD
Smite does not score critical hits
Clerics cannot quick cast
Clerics/Druids/Healers get spirit resist as buff

Could dig up some more but I really need to go now.

 

[old.chesnor]

Well, I'm not going to argue with you.

Just go the VN boards here :-
VN Acolyte Boards

People from Albion are even cheering that this nerf has come, surely that must say something about smite to you ?

If the nerf was truly as bad or unneccessary as you claim, then what possible motivation would there be for Albions to welcome it !!!!!

 

[Tigerius]

So let envy, hatred, disappointment oh the most reasonable feelings of mankind be the judge of the fairness of this nerf?

Haha, please.

That reaction from fellow realm mates does indeed suggest something is wrong, both with the people who feel this way, what they expect of a Cleric (it's always easy to whine over not getting healed in RvR), and what players have chosen to play Cleric. Not with the class.

 

[old.chesnor]

So I'm wrong, youre own realm mates are wrong, Mythic is wrong, and the smite Clerics are right. lol

You are a natural born smite Cleric.....

 

[c0ngo]

If I wanted healing 2 be my main ability I would have rolled in Mid or Hib.

One good thing about GOA is that assuming this patch is kept we won't get it 4 ages and I'll have either moved on or will have lvl 50 alts that I'll play instead of my Cleric.