1.51D on Herald!

[Gef]

Well at least Scouts didnt get any more nerfing thats made my day!

 

[Cadwallon]

People seem to assume that that the smite nerf will mean more healers in Albion. I don't think so!

People who enjoy playing smiters do so because they are not interested in the utter boredom and mindlessness of paying a monthly subscription just to watch a mini-screen and health bars.

The VN boards contain the results of the initial Pendragon tests and come to some interesting conclusions. The clerics who have been hurt most are the so called 'balanced' clerics who now have little soloing ability.

The suggested way to respec is 14r/14e/50s as this will still maintain decent damage output, so Albion as a realm has been 'nerfed' not just the clerics as high-end groups will have even more reduced healing ability.

The only real solution to this is to make all support classes more viable in rvr. Healing and rezzing do not earn you RP's and therefore nice new Realm Abilities and ranks. Sure, you are able to leech rp's by being in the group but you get less than those who do the damage and often the cleric, as healer/rezzer, is out of range of the rp earning zone.

 

[old.linnet]

Bard insta AE mez

I'm not convinced that it's a great idea to give the instant AE mez to a speed class.

People get wound up enough about minstrels and skalds with their single person mez (ours isn't insta but we can cast it while moving at speed so ...), and I shudder to think what the bards are going to be like now. Would have been nice to have seen them get some more offensive capability and give the insta AE mez to mentalists or something.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Cadwallon
People who enjoy playing smiters do so because they are not interested in the utter boredom and mindlessness of paying a monthly subscription just to watch a mini-screen and health bars.

You can still spec smite, so your role isn't limited to just healing.

Originally posted by Cadwallon
The suggested way to respec is 14r/14e/50s as this will still maintain decent damage output, so Albion as a realm has been 'nerfed' not just the clerics as high-end groups will have even more reduced healing ability.

Of course Albion will be nerfed if all clerics spec 14/14/50 because your healing will suck. Sheesh.

Originally posted by Cadwallon
Sure, you are able to leech rp's by being in the group but you get less than those who do the damage and often the cleric, as healer/rezzer, is out of range of the rp earning zone.

Wrong. RP is divided into the group almost evenly (higher levels will earn slightly more). The amount of dmg you do has absolutely no bearing on how many RP a healer gets in a group. In a patch between 1.45-1.50 the range you can be away from your group and still earn RP when they kill has been extended, making it easier for healing classes to hang back and still earn RP.

 

[Tigerius]

And just how overpowered and fun will bards be to face now... I know many Hibs like to sit and gloat that Clerics do less damage, it really aint my primary concern even as Cleric, what I right now see is even more classes getting insta-CCs and being mezzed an even more regular part of combat. Not a way to improve RvR as it stands.

Clerics instamez doesn't isn't in the same category. Where is this ranged long duration AoE instamez for Albion? Sorcs are beginning to look more and more laughable compared to Bard and Healer the other AoE mezzers.

I indeed fear for Albion if 14/14/50 is going to be the new way to spec, nah, this is like one of those bad dreams I woke up sweaty with, they've removed the DD from the Smiting line. It aint the end of the world but a huge change of the class, by choosing to put nothing there instead they turn a class with 3 interesting speclines into a true cooke cutter.

 

[old.chesnor]

-The Cleric Smite line was re-tuned to bring this specific class/skill combination into line with other healers. The primary change was a reduction to the direct damage spells (single target and AE), which were doing the equivalent damage to a nuker direct damage spells. This was inappropriate due to offensive and defensive melee capabilities of the Cleric. The Heavenly Strike line (AE DD) now has had its radius increased to 350 at all levels, however.

They haven't removed any dd, just toned it down a bit. You can't in all honesty say that the smite line is now not viable, please

 

[Flimgoblin]

Previously smite clerics were lower-powered nukers with chain and shedloads of utility (even more if they split their specs around)

Now smite clerics are still lower-powered nukers with chain and shedloads of utility... just their nukes are a bit less good.

Their utility stuff increased incidentally.

Edit: compare to a cabalist - not as good at the powerful front loaded damage stuff as a wiz but gets life transfer and pets and other utility things.

Flexibility is a good thing, if you complain you can't nuke nuke nuke as a smite cleric then you're not meant to...

I'm not saying get back in the kitchen and heal like a good little cleric... just that you have flexibility even if you don't want that. No wizard has insta-mezz/stun to escape with if a pull goes bad. No wizard can heal themselves to reduce downtime. No wizard can take more than 2 or 3 hits from a purple either.

Smite clerics are still damned powerful, just slightly less so.

 

[old.Whut]

Originally posted by chesnor


lol, yeah lets make every other healing class uber like a Smite specced Cleric. Good plan. An army of healers wearing chain, self buffing, ressing, healing, nuking like casters would rock RvR. In fact, why not just deleted all the other classes while we're at it as they are all defunct.

If Clerics weren't due a smack from the nerf bat, I'm a banana.

The reasons Clerics were given the toolkits in their spec lines were completely valid. What was NOT valid, was depriving the other Realms of a support class EACH with equivalent toolkits.

It is no good watering down those abilities amongst other classes, and then expecting people to be able to compensate - it won't happen.

Whilst what has been given to Hibernia is an improvement and a step in the right direction, there is still a long way to go. I couldn't bring myself to play a Hib support class yet, but I think they are getting there slowly.

I welcome the support class changes to heals for ALL Realms. That will go some way towards changing the look and feel of RvR - not on its own by any stretch of the imagination, but at least it has been recognised that it will be an essential improvement.

I await other letters of the alphabet with interest.

Now how about a firm commitment from GOA about WHEN we are going to be getting these patches please?

It is now mid-June. I don't expect us to be at 1.51D by the end of August (2002). I DEMAND that we are up to 1.51D by the end of August (2002)! If not, GOA doesn't get another subscription from me, but Mythic does instead.

I don't think that is being unreasonable.

 

[old.Whut]

Originally posted by chesnor



Of course Albion will be nerfed if all clerics spec 14/14/50 because your healing will suck. Sheesh.

Read the rest of the patch notes . . .

Healing across ALL Realms and ALL classes has been improved.

Albion will not be nerfed by this.

 

[Solid]

Breydel used to play EU since Beta and he started as a Thane, then went to Skald in retail and now in US he playes a 4X Bard.

He says he loves his bard, he has so many abilities and is so wanted in groups that it takes but 2 seconds of him logging into MLF for him to recieve a few /sends askign ti join a group.

Think Hib Support classes are more popular and more balanced than some peeps realise (On US that is)

 

[old.Whut]

Originally posted by Tigerius
what I right now see is even more classes getting insta-CCs and being mezzed an even more regular part of combat. Not a way to improve RvR as it stands.

It isn't going to be a 2 way street any more, it is going to be a 3 way street.

It wasn't right that 1 Realm lacked this ability. Why did you think that it was reasonable for Hibernia to be the only Realm without it? Aren't they gimped enough as it is for you?

Personally I would rather have seen all insta mezz and insta roots taken out of the game.

Frankly, an insta pbaoe root, isn't worth a candle anyway.

 

[Tigerius]

I don't see how other realms support classes fare any less well? Midgard healers have better crowd control than the Albion crowd control class, heals and buffs on top of that. Yes they maybe weren't that fun because they lacked killing power, but to me a chain wearing insta healing insta mezzing class is a much more powerful RvR tool than one who can cast 4 second DDs.

Do we even need to compare Bard to Cleric in terms of utility and alternative uses besides healing? Runsong, powersong, endsong and yet again shitloads of crowd control. Only problem I can see is the class has so many utility speclines it can't get them all to a desired spec. But then again as music class they have 1.5x spec making that easier too. If we'd rather compare Druid I regret to say I know little of that class but somehow doubt they are entirely lacking in alternative utility.

As it stands now I'd trade my Cleric for a Healer/Bard any day (provided I could stay in Albion), that aint a whine just a reflection on my utility when my alternate specline went shambles. I'd bring so much more to my party as Healer/Bard. Strong DD wins a duel, AoE mez a battle.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Whut


Read the rest of the patch notes . . .

Healing across ALL Realms and ALL classes has been improved.

Albion will not be nerfed by this.

My point was that the guy can't complain that Albion is gimped because his healing sucks, when he is only speccing rejuv to 14 and smite to 50.

Even after the tweaks to healing spells in 1.51, a cleric with 14 in rejuv is still going to be a poor healer.

 

[old.Andromalius]

The biggest thingy for me in all of that is the Heal range upgrade. I won't have to within berserker range to heal my tanks. Coming in and hit me will now require a little more work. With an insta root, I at last have the getaway card I wanted.

Side note: the insta root will be used to escape. That means the damage shield is now useless except for PvE soloing. (Not that it was SO useful to begin with)


I'm pleased with this patch. I started my druidic career being a full support druid and put points in Nature only after having reached 30th lvl. Getting to 36 Nature will require some sacrifice, ie not going to 35 Regrowth, but I think it's worth it.

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by Whut


It isn't going to be a 2 way street any more, it is going to be a 3 way street.

It wasn't right that 1 Realm lacked this ability. Why did you think that it was reasonable for Hibernia to be the only Realm without it? Aren't they gimped enough as it is for you?

Personally I would rather have seen all insta mezz and insta roots taken out of the game.

Frankly, an insta pbaoe root, isn't worth a candle anyway.

Albion has no insta AoE mez? or oh, are you refering to Clerics PBAoE short duration mez? It may be more useful than PBAoE root (that's a tad laughable) but it doesn't hold a candle in hell compared to ranged, longer duration, AoE instamez. It just became a 2 way street m8.

 

[Ifalna]

I hope that this change results in Clerics speccing less in smiting and not more. Smite clerics are bad enough at healing as it is without them diverting more spec points from rejuv.

 

[Cadwallon]

Yes, it is possible that when/if this patch goes in more clerics will increase the other lines.

I for one will, if still playing in 9 months time, respec to 50e and my cleric will be my own personal buff bot parked at the pk...

Whilst enjoying the healing in PvE, I sure as hell ain't spending my money to sit at the back in RvR.

Nerfs are crap. I feel for any player of any class who devotes a great deal of time developing the spec lines they want only to have that taken away....it sux. More so because it seems the way these things come about is down to who shouts and whines the loudest on the dev board.

Archers copped it last month and this month it is the clerics turn.

If I were a Skald I would be very nervous..

 

[Bodzilla]

[01:33:20] You cast a Earth Wave Spell!
[01:33:20] You hit for 389 damage!
[01:33:20] @@The Veteran Guardsman says, "The Knights of the Round Table shall avenge me!"
[01:33:20] The Veteran Guardsman dies!

[01:37:42] You hit for 340 damage!
[01:37:42] You critical hit for an additional 37 damage!
[01:37:42] Master Vismer dies!
[01:37:42] You get 47,680,320 experience points. (15,893,440 camp bonus)

[01:38:03] You examine Urnext. He is a member of the Sorcerer class in your realm.
[01:38:04] You begin casting a Earth Wave spell!
[01:38:06] You cast a Earth Wave Spell!
[01:38:06] Urnext resists the effect!
[01:38:22] @@You say, "humm I could be so mean "
[01:38:43] @@You say, "can I try and hit you once or twice for my log?"
[01:38:53] @@Urnext says, "go for it"
[01:38:56] You ground-target 33654,31208,7967
[01:38:56] You begin casting a Earth Wave spell!
[01:38:59] You are already casting a spell!
[01:38:59] You cast a Earth Wave Spell!
[01:38:59] You hit for 304 (-26) damage!
[01:39:02] @@Urnext says, "OUCH!"
[01:39:04] You begin casting a Earth Wave spell!
[01:39:06] @@Urnext says, ""
[01:39:06] You cast a Earth Wave Spell!
[01:39:06] You hit for 304 (-26) damage!
[01:39:12] @@You say, "thanks "
[01:39:24] @@Magus Cormac says, "So you want to do some training eh?"
[01:39:35] @@You say, "I wonder how many rps your worth LOL"
[01:39:45] @@Urnext says, "You wouldnt! LOL!"
[01:40:02] @@You say, "not with out someone approval that just mean "
[01:41:00] Master Berwick dies!
[01:41:00] You get 78,643,200 experience points. (26,214,400 camp bonus)




looks like the earth wizards are having fun on pendragon

 

[SFXman]

Bodzilla, lol.

 

[Gef]

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=31216189&replies=60

LOL, poor Clerics

.. hold on ..

.. I got a Cleric

.. balls ..

.. oh yeah he's rejuv anyway

 

[SFXman]

Originally posted by Gef
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=31216189&replies=60

LOL, poor Clerics

.. hold on ..

.. I got a Cleric

.. balls ..

.. oh yeah he's rejuv anyway

Tiihihiaihaihahehehahaheaehaheaiiaia
Woohoo, more enh and rej clerics

 

[old.Whut]

Originally posted by chesnor


My point was that the guy can't complain that Albion is gimped because his healing sucks, when he is only speccing rejuv to 14 and smite to 50.

Even after the tweaks to healing spells in 1.51, a cleric with 14 in rejuv is still going to be a poor healer.

Power pool available, cast times, hp's healed for power used. The spec line heals WERE highly inefficient. They will/should be better now, but only time will tell exactly how much.

It never made sense for any healer of whatever class or whatever Realm, to spec in their heal line over about 50% (those that argued otherwise completely failed to grasp the inefficiency implications, apart from anything else - it is just like overspeccing in buffs beyond all useful range. Diminishing, and even non-existent returns, add up to a lot of character playability damage). I doubt whether that has changed much, if at all. The way damage gets taken, other than in very, very rare instances, if you need heals that are that huge, you are dead anyway, and if on PvE, you are definitely pulling the wrong mobs with the wrong group, and just as dead.

Someone with 50 in rejuv, actually stands a far higher chance of being the poor healer, because they obviously don't understand the issues (those that are the grateful recipients of a timely big heal, are not necessarily well placed to judge support class issues either *grins*). Not saying that someone with 14 rejuv necessarily understands the issues either mind . .

As with so many things, so much depends on understanding what is actually happening at the time, playing your character to its potential, and being able to compensate for inadequacies and read ahead. That, after all, is the real attraction of playing a support class. Not just what do they need NOW, but what will they need THEN. The true beauty of the Cleric, is the excellent toolkit provided to take account of all necessities. I still think the Shaman is the only other support class to come even remotely close to that, and a Shaman isn't really close at all.

Now if Mentalists had rezz ability, I would play Hibernia like a shot.

 

[old.chesnor]

I played a Healer in Mid to 46, and am painfully aware of how screwed the mending(rejuv) line is. I specced to neding to 23 purely to get the first group insta heal. Any more in mending after that was basically wasted.

Points in mending do also reduce the variance on heals (much like speccing weapon) so there is a sweet spot to spec where the heals are good and power cost is reasonable. Any class that specs 50 into mending/rejuv right now is gimped

However Clerics speccing 14 into rejuv are ignoring that second insta, just for more uber smite. A tad selfish there imho, since insta group heal is mucho useful in RvR.

 

[old.Whut]

Originally posted by chesnor
I played a Healer in Mid to 46, and am painfully aware of how screwed the mending(rejuv) line is. I specced to neding to 23 purely to get the first group insta heal. Any more in mending after that was basically wasted.

Points in mending do also reduce the variance on heals (much like speccing weapon) so there is a sweet spot to spec where the heals are good and power cost is reasonable. Any class that specs 50 into mending/rejuv right now is gimped

However Clerics speccing 14 into rejuv are ignoring that second insta, just for more uber smite. A tad selfish there imho, since insta group heal is mucho useful in RvR.

Can't disagree at all, and yes, insta group heal certainly earns its keep.

 

[old.Andromalius]

I can heal 49 tanks fine in PvE with the 26 spec heal. The big heals are more needd in RvR when a lvl 50 hits your pals for half their life. Except for that, healing for 600 is just a waste.

 

[Quemine]

Those new additions to healers augmentation skill should have arrived with 1.48 or something. My heavily specced aug healer is practically worthless at his healing job, and almost worthless at fighting too... so those new spells are a welcome addition. Too bad I probably won't be playing the game anymore when this patch hits us here.

Quemine ~ 50 healer
Caeron ~ 39 aug healer

 

[zilch]

Wow some nice changes.......but arent the wizards a bit to powerfull now......

 

[old.Whut]

Originally posted by Andromalius
I can heal 49 tanks fine in PvE with the 26 spec heal. The big heals are more needd in RvR when a lvl 50 hits your pals for half their life. Except for that, healing for 600 is just a waste.

And by the time that big heal lands on them they are already dead, and you have wasted a bucketful of power.

How often do you see 1 on 1 combat in RvR? The only heal that can buy a little time is an insta, and even then the inevitable has been postponed by a few seconds only.

Obviously there are rare exceptions, but exceptions is what they are.

The only true and functional heal in RvR is HoT, everything else is just rezzing. Why I think every support class in every Realm should have HoT on its baselines.

 

[Gef]

My Cleric is lvl 31 with 26 odd rejuv, 11 enh and 15 smite (about that anyway I havent played him in a while) .. question is where do I go from there?

I was thinking take rejuv up to 30 and whack the rest in smite, thoughts?

 

[old.Sinister01]

..

Smite was nerfed! at least, ive been waiting for them to nerf smite, no way a tin can who can instaheal should be able to stun me and smite me for 400+ dmg a time.