1/3? Really?

[throdgrain]

Im sure it is. Spend a few months in a high security prison then return with your findings to let us all know

 

[Scouse]

Just to add some wood to the already burning fire. Is it possible for a man to be raped? and would he even report it or feel to embaressed?

Yes, it's possible for men to be raped. I remember reading something about how a woman in the US who thought she had AIDS went on some mad raping spree - holding guns to mens heads. (Personally, I'd never be able to get it up if a woman was holding a gun to my head, well, not that head anyway)

There was also the case of a couple in Leeds - out for a walk and they were jumped by two men. She was raped and penetrated with a glass bottle, he was buggered and penetrated anally with a broken glass bottle. Happened a couple of years ago and would prolly not be too hard to find if you googled it (- but I don't need to read horrible shit like that again).

The thing about it is, you're not being realistic about rape. All you're doing is highlighting situations where you think Common Sense should prevail. You fail to realise or address the fact that most rape does not occur in such situations

They're not commenting on "most rapes", Maxi. I think that everyone here would agree that rape is despicable and that the vast majority of cases feature circumstances out of the victim's control. They're saying:

If a girl gets totally shit-faced, so she doesn't know what she's doing, and is wearing what amounts to a belt and a boob-tube, she's got a MUCH higher probability of getting raped. It's not her fault but she's put herself into a situation where it's much more likely - and she must bear some responsibility for that.

Men are driven wild by women. Quite rightly so. It's natural. Some women dress in such a way that men can't help but look. If there's a bad person around who do you think he's gonna look at?.

It was a running joke at my university that the girls wore less clothes than the prostitutes that were touting for business outside the halls of residence. The reason it was a running joke is that it was true.


Now, I believe that girls should be able to wear what they like, do what they like and be whereever they like. At the same time they should be responsible for their own safety. As a man I am. I don't go to places where it may kick off after a few beers - and I'm 6'3" tall and more than able to look after myself.

It's never a woman's fault if she gets raped but it is a woman's responsibility to make sure she's not taking stupid risks.

Now I'm going to say something you'll hate:

My girlfriend often goes out with her mates in mixed groups. Normally I trust her 100%. However, she sometimes gets so drunk that she becomes totally unaware of what's going on. She could get gang-raped by fifty men and the only way she'd know about it was from the mess in the morning.

She's told me she will try not to get quite that drunk (when I'm not about) in the future but that's not really good enough for me. If she got raped when she was that drunk I wouldn't be able to help but attribute some measure of fault and it would probably destroy the relationship.

I love my girlfriend very much but if such an avoidable situation arose, especially after talking about it, then what more can a man do?

 

[maxi]

I'm not calling anyone a rapist/misogynist. What I was trying to point is the seeming inate ability to shift the blame toward women. It's been illustrated in almost every posts since I said that. It's crazy.


If a person gets totally shit faced and doesn't know what they are doing then that is a danger to their safety. (regardless of what clothes they are wearing)

Doesn't that seeming so obvious to everyone that it doesn't need to be said? Yet it's whats been said over and over in this thread. Of course people should be more responsible for their actions but that doesn't mean they ARE.(just like rape shouldn't exist but it DOES) All thats happening is talk of a different solution, one that involves the other sex chaning THEIR behaviour "Hey Missy stop dressing like a slag and getting so drunk and maybe you wont get raped!" (dreadfully inaccurate) instead of "hey you fucking sick ****, don't rape women!"

If a guy got drunk, stumbled somehow into a fight wherein he got stabbed there would not be talk of his responsibility of his actions.

and Turamwhatever, of course people build their opinions from Newspapers and the media but these opinions should in no way be passed off as 'realistic' or a 'complete picture' without sufficient information to back this up.

 

[throdgrain]

I was going to type an enormous answer to this, but frankly you're just arguing for the sake of it, so i cba :/

 

[old.Tohtori]

I was going to type an enormous answer to this, but frankly you're just arguing for the sake of it, so i cba :/

No they're not


But seriousy without going into too much discussion and arguing about semantics, rape is rape no matter what the situation.

If a terrorst holds a gun to my head and tells me to rape a woman or get my head blown off, i'll be smiling as i tell the bgger to f*ck off.

 

[Scouse]

If a person gets totally shit faced and doesn't know what they are doing then that is a danger to their safety. (regardless of what clothes they are wearing)

Absolutely. Totally agree.

Doesn't that seeming so obvious to everyone that it doesn't need to be said? Yet it's whats been said over and over in this thread. Of course people should be more responsible for their actions but that doesn't mean they ARE.(just like rape shouldn't exist but it DOES) All thats happening is talk of a different solution, one that involves the other sex chaning THEIR behaviour "Hey Missy stop dressing like a slag and getting so drunk and maybe you wont get raped!" (dreadfully inaccurate) instead of "hey you fucking sick ****, don't rape women!"

Here's where you're going wrong. We already say "hey you fucking sick ****". We shout it till we're blue in the face and it's on the covers of the newspapers and in articles in magasines.

In fact, women have absolved themselves of so much of the responsibility that when men say (to twist your sentence), "Hey Missy, if you want to reduce the probability of getting raped dress more conservatively and don't get so stupidly drunk!" that we get it flung back in our faces and get screamed at for being sexist.

Men's natural instinct is to protect women. For example: It's why the Army don't let women serve as front-line troops. Why? Because when women come under enemy fire, or even get killed, the men go to pieces. We can't handle it and sacrifice our mates to protect women.

So maybe you can get off your feminist high horse and perhaps accept that if women dress to get attention, get drunk and flirt outrageously then, although they don't deserve it, they're going to be much more likely to get raped/assulted whatever.

If a guy got drunk, stumbled somehow into a fight wherein he got stabbed there would not be talk of his responsibility of his actions.

What do you think that the whole binge-drinking thing is? Constant attacks on blokes who get drunk and fight. For women the papers seem to be much more concerned with your health and "why are women feeling that they need to drink as much as men?".

I've seen five fights in nottingham town centre this year so far. Four of them were started by drunken women getting catty. I'm not claiming that that's a scientific poll or that women are worse. However, what I am saying is that it's no conincidence that sexual attacks are on the rise. Loads more women are getting loads more shit-faced than before. Some bad men take advantage and that's wrong.

So, whilst the police try to lock rapists up and the papers bang on about how bad drunken men are, perhaps women could understand that the vast majority of men are looking out for them and maybe start doing their part in helping to protect themselves??

 

[maxi]

I said "regardless of what they are wearing"

and

What I was trying to point is the seeming inate ability to shift the blame toward women. It's been illustrated in almost every posts since I said that. It's crazy.

And that sums it up.

RAPE IS HORRIBLE but... I just though it was an interesting observation thats all.

I'm not accepting what you said. The only thing that MATTERS is that people get drunk - what they wear and how they flirt has nothing to do with it. You paint a picture of some sinister hussy manipulating mens hormones - it simply isn't the case (some people are outrageously flirty, some women do dress provocatively, and some women do get bladdered...there are no facts to back up the claim that women who do all three of these things are more likely to get raped than women who just get pissed, talk to someone they like(or not) and end up scarred for life because of it.)

Most here will agree, flirting is fun, drinking is fun, and getting the attention of opposite sex is fun...whether male or female.

 

[Calaen]

Most here will agree, flirting is fun, drinking is fun, and getting the attention of opposite sex is fun...whether male or female.

Unless of course you dont want the attention and end up getting raped?

 

[Damini]

re·spon·si·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-spns-bl)
adj.
Liable to be required to give account, as of one's actions or of the discharge of a duty or trust.
Involving personal accountability or ability to act without guidance or superior authority: a responsible position within the firm.
Being a source or cause.
Able to make moral or rational decisions on one's own and therefore answerable for one's behavior.
Able to be trusted or depended upon; reliable.
Based on or characterized by good judgment or sound thinking: responsible journalism.
Having the means to pay debts or fulfill obligations.
Required to render account; answerable: The cabinet is responsible to the parliament.

Responsible is the wrong word entirely. Each person is sentient, autonymous, and in charge of their own actions. If I tell you to kill someone, you are not compelled to do it. If I put a pizza in front of you, you are not forced to eat it. If I leave money out on the side, you are not doomed to steal it. A woman is not a source or cause of rape - only a man is capable of that. A woman can contribute to factors that put her at an increased vulnerability to such a crime, but she is NEVER the source or cause. She is never responsible for another persons actions.

How many of you guys spruce yourself up on a night out? Splash of aftershave, gell your hair, nicest clothes, a flirt, a dance, a drink too many? If any of you were brutally sodomised on the way home, would you think it fair that you were deemed in any way responsible for that? Or are such value judgements only applicable to women?

It's muddying the water talking about women who falsely cry rape. Its not relevent to this at all, just as talking about people falsely accused of murder wouldn't be relevent when talking about motives in killings.

 

[Scouse]

I'm not accepting what you said. The only thing that MATTERS is that people get drunk - what they wear and how they flirt has nothing to do with it.

The problem here is that you can't get off your feminist high horse. You've obviously been too angry to read what I said in my post (because you've refrained from commenting on any of it).

If you can't accept that if you dress in a way that exposes lots of flesh, flirt outrageously and be drunk that it will increase your chance of being sexually assaulted then you are a fool.

 

[maxi]

I read what you said, but I'm getting bored of saying the same things!

and your'e obviously so blinded by rage(yeah right) that you didn't read what came after that line.

If you think my posts on here are anything more than target practice you're a fool. This shit is fun!

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think i agree with Maxi...think.

If i'm not totaly wrong, which i probably am, youre saying that if a woman gets raped in the back alley of some building, the fact that she was drunk or not, dressed in a furcoat or miniskirt, has nothing to do with the incident.

This i agree on.

But i agree o one aspect of being drunk, dressing up etc.:

If you dress in skimpy clothing, you attract attention.
If you're drunk, you have less ability to defend against a rape.

Neither of these things "increase" the rape-possibility % per say, but they are a factor if someone does end up in the situation.

 

[maxi]

Someone agrees ? Fuck this, I'm off.

 

[Trem]

I was raped once

I was wearing tiny shorts and my helmet was just showing out of the left hand side. I feel it was my own fault for wearing such tiny shorts..........and for visiting babs on that day.

 

[Scouse]

If you think my posts on here are anything more than target practice you're a fool. This shit is fun!

You're missing all the targets tho babe

re·spon·si·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-spns-bl)
adj.
Liable to be required to give account, as of one's actions or of the discharge of a duty or trust.
Involving personal accountability or ability to act without guidance or superior authority: a responsible position within the firm.
Being a source or cause.
Able to make moral or rational decisions on one's own and therefore answerable for one's behavior.
Able to be trusted or depended upon; reliable.
Based on or characterized by good judgment or sound thinking: responsible journalism.
Having the means to pay debts or fulfill obligations.
Required to render account; answerable: The cabinet is responsible to the parliament.

Responsible is the wrong word entirely. Each person is sentient, autonymous, and in charge of their own actions. If I tell you to kill someone, you are not compelled to do it. If I put a pizza in front of you, you are not forced to eat it. If I leave money out on the side, you are not doomed to steal it. A woman is not a source or cause of rape - only a man is capable of that. A woman can contribute to factors that put her at an increased vulnerability to such a crime, but she is NEVER the source or cause. She is never responsible for another persons actions.

How many of you guys spruce yourself up on a night out? Splash of aftershave, gell your hair, nicest clothes, a flirt, a dance, a drink too many? If any of you were brutally sodomised on the way home, would you think it fair that you were deemed in any way responsible for that? Or are such value judgements only applicable to women?

D, I totally agree with nearly all of your post (half of it is what I've said) but I think you've missed some of my point.

A woman is never, ever, responsible for a man's actions - but she is responsible for herself.

You know that smoking fags is likely to kill you. It may never but it does increase your risk.

Unfortunately, it's the same for women. If you flaunt it, get drunk and do all these things that are great fun - then you're putting yourself at risk.

Responsible is totally the right word. You've highlighted "being a source or cause". Absolutely not - women are never the cause. It's never their fault.

But how about:

• Involving personal accountability; or
• Able to make moral or rational decisions on one's own

If you're alcohol-impaired then you can't do that. And if you're drunk then that's your responsibility.

You're also responsible for how you dress and act. The sad fact is if you dress and act in a way that brings attention to yourself then you run a greater risk of being hurt.


It's no more sinister than that. It may be unpallatable and I know for a fact that the idea is so unpopular amongst women that to suggest it around them, for all men, is such a massive no-no that most men shy away from it. That's even when they all know that - if they see a pretty girl, they look.

No harm in that - all good and fine. But men also know that if they're looking, so are the rapists...

 

[Will]

Scouse...you are the statistic.

 

[Scouse]

Furry muff if you feel that way m8.

He's my rationale and reason for being so het-up about such a subject (other than I'm off work at the moment, I sent something like this to maxi personally but I think it's relevant):

My ex was "possibly" raped (before she met me). "Possibly" is her words.

What happened? She has fantastic breasts and great legs (and was a darn sight skinnier than when she went out with me for 7 years). When she wanted to go out on the pull she'd wear a low-cut top and a tiny skirt - and she always got loads of attention. She put it about a bit. Fair enough. She loved it.

Perhaps unsurprisingly though, she woke up one night with a man having sex with her at his house. She remembers going back with him but not giving consent. But she can't rule it out.

This is not uncommon. I've slept with drunk women and the amount of times I've heard "what happened last night" is uncanny.

I'd like to point out that I didn't judge her. What she wears on a night out and how drunk she gets and how she acts is her business. Not mine.

However, none of that changes the fact that if you act this way you're putting yourself at risk. It's your choice whether to take that risk or not - that's where the responsibility bit comes in - and IMHO that's a fact that women actively blind themselves to.

Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

 

[ECA]

A woman is not a source or cause of rape - only a man is capable of that. .

Yeah because its only men who rape people, women are never rapists.

 

[babs]

You didn't say the safety word trem

 

[Tom]

Yeah because its only men who rape people, women are never rapists.

Well, they aren't unless I'm missing something - or they've got something added with surgery.

 

[maxi]

There hjave been cases of men being raped by women(women raping women too i guess). But I think ECAS post just goes to highlight mens defensiveness around the issue. Which is what i as trying to point out from the start. I don't think it helps ANYONE, not least the hard-done-by-honest-to-goodness-men. Like me.

 

[DaGaffer]

There hjave been cases of men being raped by women(women raping women too i guess). But I think ECAS post just goes to highlight mens defensiveness around the issue. Which is what i as trying to point out from the start. I don't think it helps ANYONE, not least the hard-done-by-honest-to-goodness-men. Like me.

I could be wrong here but I don't think a woman can rape a man in law. Its classed as sexual assault. And male on male rape is recognised in English law but not in Scotland (where its probably referred to as "a kilt-related incident" ).

 

[babs]

*bums leggy*

 

[Damini]

Yeah because its only men who rape people, women are never rapists.

I'm not saying that. I know a guy that was sexually abused as a child by a female relative. But are we or are we not talking about how a woman is "responsible" for being raped because of her behaviour in front of men? Put it in some context before twakking me

 

[Damini]

But how about:

• Involving personal accountability; or
• Able to make moral or rational decisions on one's own

If you're alcohol-impaired then you can't do that. And if you're drunk then that's your responsibility.

You're also responsible for how you dress and act. The sad fact is if you dress and act in a way that brings attention to yourself then you run a greater risk of being hurt.

If you drink lots, then you are responsible for getting drunk. If you are raped when you are drunk you are responsible for putting yourself in a more vulnerable position. You are never responsible for that rape.

The same goes with clothing. You're blurring the borders between personal responsibility for finding yourself in a situation you can't control, and the responsibility of the person in control of that situation.

It's semantics, but its important semantics.

 

[Scouse]

If you drink lots, then you are responsible for getting drunk. If you are raped when you are drunk you are responsible for putting yourself in a more vulnerable position. You are never responsible for that rape.

The same goes with clothing. You're blurring the borders between personal responsibility for finding yourself in a situation you can't control, and the responsibility of the person in control of that situation.

It's semantics, but its important semantics.

I agree with you totally, unequivocally and without reservation.


It's what I've been saying all along.

 

[ECA]

I'm not saying that. I know a guy that was sexually abused as a child by a female relative. But are we or are we not talking about how a woman is "responsible" for being raped because of her behaviour in front of other people? Put it in some context before twakking me

About 7% of reported rapes are committed by women.
I say reported, we don't know the real statistics.

 

[Damini]

Well, ECA, since you are the first person in this thread to bring up incidents of female on female rape, I'm not going to apologise for framing my response geared towards male on female rape.

 

[ECA]

Well, ECA, since I enjoy labelling men as the sole perpetrators of rape, I'm not going to apologise for being dumb.

okies.

 

[Tom]