1/3? Really?

[nath]

Pretty appalling

If it's a third of people believe that the victim can be partly/completely responsible for the rape by dressing a certain way or acting a certain way. Given that many people feel that way, I'd expect that there'd be at least a few here who feel the same.

So is there anyone here who thinks women bring it on themselves?

Lets have a topical debate!

 

[Wij]

Not if they geniunely didn't want sex. Then there's no excuse.

Women who cry rape when they wake up with a hangover and think "Who the fuck did I let in me last night ?" are a different matter.

 

[Tom]

IMO its more a case of the wrong questions being asked here.

For instance:

1)"For instance, more than a quarter (26%) of those asked said that they thought a women was partially or totally responsible for being raped if she was wearing sexy or revealing clothing,"

Shouldn't that be:

1)"If a woman was wearing sexy or revealing clothing, would she be more likely to be raped?"


Personally, I think most people are well aware that some women stray a bit too close to the flame now and again. I'm not condoning any kind of sexual abuse, but its understandable. What isn't predictable is the amount of abuse that goes on within the family home - thats perhaps the biggest source of rape claims in the country.

Oh, and speaking of rape - why do women have their identities protected, but men don't? What bollocks.

 

[rynnor]

I wouldnt read too much into one poll - it depends greatly on the questions asked by the interviewers. It sounds to me that this was a multiple choice type question so it could have run thusly:

Do you think women who wear skimpy clothing and/or are drunk who are then raped are:

A) Completely responsible for being raped

B) largely responsible for being raped

C) partially responsible for being raped

D) not responsible at all for being raped

With phone polls you'll always have a percentage who completely failed to listen to the question or the options.

Its a difficult area - consent is the key but in the world of cause and effect its obvious that getting pissed and going back to a blokes house is increasing your chances of getting raped but it still doesnt make you 'responsible' for being raped.

This is a fine distinction which would be missed by the wording in most polls.

I think society as a whole is pretty horrified by rape (possibly too much - it doesnt help the victims to constantly stress they have been terribly de-graded).

Convictions for stranger rape are fairly high - its alleged rape by someone known to the victim where the figures on convictions are so low.

Partly this is due to many cases being dropped by the women, additionally the cps wont waste taxpayers money pursuing a case where (as in many rape allegations) there is little chance of a conviction.

Most rapes have only two witnesses who both say different things - there may be no signs of any struggle or bruising and the man may have no previous convictions. In these cases theres basically no chance of a conviction unless the defendant confesses since you'll never prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Trem]

Not if they geniunely didn't want sex. Then there's no excuse.

Women who cry rape when they wake up with a hangover and think "Who the fuck did I let in me last night ?" are a different matter.

*blames wij*

 

[Draylor]

Bullshit poll.

The BBC are normally better than reprinting oversensationalised press releases, but lazy journalism gets everywhere.

The only genuine fact in that article appears to be "only 6% of reported rapes result in a conviction". Thats the one you should be calling disgraceful: not the result of a poll where we dont even know what the question being asked was.

 

[Chilly]

I've been in the position where I and a bird were both fucked and we nearly had sex but then she went mental and had a hissy fit, now if we had and she had that hissy fit afterwards, I might have found myself accused of rape! Fair? Not really, we were both fucked. I think in cases of extreme alcohol consumption rape should just be thrown out automatically since at the time both may well be happy and willing.

 

[nath]

The only genuine fact in that article appears to be "only 6% of reported rapes result in a conviction". Thats the one you should be calling disgraceful: not the result of a poll where we dont even know what the question being asked was.

Fair point actually.

 

[Lester]

Confused by your use of the word "fucked" there for a second.....

 

[Chilly]

sorry

 

[Draylor]

Fair point actually.

Dont be so surprised, just occasionally I do actually have a point in among the whine

 

[Turamber]

If the man is drunk is that an excuse for rape?

Devil's Advocate question, sorry.

I would imagine that a drunk woman would be less careful of her surroundings which would increase the chances of her being raped. It doesn't mean it's her fault per se', but she has contributed to the situation she is in of course.

There are a lot of women who cry "rape" after the fact and they do a disservice to those who are genuine victims.

 

[nath]

There are a lot of women who cry "rape" after the fact and they do a disservice to those who are genuine victims.

Are you sure about this? If so, where are you getting your information from?

 

[babs]

these drunk women.....


......where do they go?



*gets notepad*

 

[MYstIC G]

The only genuine fact in that article appears to be "only 6% of reported rapes result in a conviction". Thats the one you should be calling disgraceful: not the result of a poll where we dont even know what the question being asked was.

Do they base that on total figures, or on cases where they were likely to win but they just dropped the case?

 

[Rubber Bullets]

Are you sure about this? If so, where are you getting your information from?

I think Turamber's use of the words 'a lot' may be misleading. There are certainly cases where exactly this has happened, and those women do nothing for the causes of other rape victims.

Oh and to answer Turamber's Devil's Advocate question, of course being drunk is no excuse.

RB

 

[MrHorus]

So is there anyone here who thinks women bring it on themselves?

To a limited extent, yes.

Some men out there are scum. Fact.
There are men that are sexual predators. Fact.
There are men who would spike drinks to abuse people. Fact.
There are men that are a combination of the above three. Fact.

Given these facts, I find it hard to believe that there are some woman that get completely rat arsed, end up in no fit state to look after themselves yet insist on teasing guys and winding them up just because it's "fun" apparently.

Yet some of them wonder why they end up getting raped?

Now i'm not suggesting that they "deserve" be raped as no human, female, male or otherwise deserves to be so humiliated like that, but when people don't take care of themselves and put themselves in compromising positions when there are plenty of people who would take advantage of them, then its a bit rich for them to claim total innocence and absolve themselves of all responsability for what happens to them.

If I get drunk and end up in a fight, it would be stupid for me to blame the other person as they should have known I was drunk and accepted that I was not myself as thats bullshit - it is partially my responsability for getting into that state and that position where something adverse happened to me.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

This has made its way into Norwegian press also. Clearly if a woman is flirting with you you have a right to rip of her clothes and have your way with her! Maybe you should get your women to wear burkhas, that way they won't make men rape them so often. The sluts! :touch:

 

[Turamber]

Are you sure about this? If so, where are you getting your information from?

Ok a "lot" might be pushing it, but it is a recognised and known phenomena. I also have personal experience of this ... I had a relationship with somone for a period of about a year but when her husband found out she cried rape. It was, of course, utter bullshit and only meant to get her off the hook with hubbie.

And yes it was completely out of order to have any sort of relationship with a married woman, but it was completely consensual and carried on over a number of months. Her claims were investigated by the proper authorities (not a pleasant experience) and then thrown out.

 

[Scouse]

Are you sure about this? If so, where are you getting your information from?

Got a mate who's a copper, says about half the cases he comes across fail because the girl admits just before (or during) the court case that she lied.

Apparently the most common reason they give is that their boyfriend found something out and they didn't want him to think they were cheating...

Kinda fucks it up for the girls who are raped and at the same time men are getting fucked over because people believe that there's no smoke without fire...

 

[JBP|]

Clearly any woman who wears a skirt is just asking for it.*














*This is obviously a joke

 

[maxi]

To a limited extent, yes.

Some men out there are scum. Fact.
There are men that are sexual predators. Fact.
There are men who would spike drinks to abuse people. Fact.
There are men that are a combination of the above three. Fact.

Given these facts, I find it hard to believe that there are some woman that get completely rat arsed, end up in no fit state to look after themselves yet insist on teasing guys and winding them up just because it's "fun" apparently.

Yet some of them wonder why they end up getting raped?

Now i'm not suggesting that they "deserve" be raped as no human, female, male or otherwise deserves to be so humiliated like that, but when people don't take care of themselves and put themselves in compromising positions when there are plenty of people who would take advantage of them, then its a bit rich for them to claim total innocence and absolve themselves of all responsability for what happens to them.

If I get drunk and end up in a fight, it would be stupid for me to blame the other person as they should have known I was drunk and accepted that I was not myself as thats bullshit - it is partially my responsability for getting into that state and that position where something adverse happened to me.

I don't think its right to live in a perpetual state of fear because of what the papers say. I also think you're judging an invented situation that is far too simplified.

and yet You ARE saying WOMEN ask for it. Like you're saying YOU ask for a punch when you're drunk. These are two entirely different things.

 

[maxi]

What's also interesting is that in a lot of posts(i would imagine this forum is not alone) whilst people have agreed Women Don't Deserve to Be Raped, most have ended on a very defensive (and unjustly so) note of "but women who..." kinda like saying "I'm not a racist but..."

I'd like to point out to those who aren't already aware most rape victims are not drunk women who were 'teasing' men beforehand. Like most Fat peple don't moan about being fat and continue to gorge themselves.. These are merely defensive and absolutely fucking lame attempts to justify hidden predjudices.

 

[Turamber]

These are merely defensive and absolutely fucking lame attempts to justify hidden predjudices.

Or maybe people are attempting to give a complete picture, and are not interested in PC rhetoric meant to impress their girlfriends.

 

[throdgrain]

Or maybe people are attempting to give a complete picture, and are not interested in PC rhetoric meant to impress their girlfriends.

True to a point. Love the "im not a racist, well maybe a bit " slant. No one is an angel walking about on clouds, we all have opinions and instincts, dare I say, prejudices too.
The only people who dont have them are the PC looneys, and even then they probably do really, but keep em covered up to win the arguement.


EDIT
Having said all that, I really feel that women can and should wear whatever they want. However if they get so pissed they cant walk whilst wearing very little clothing, then get into the back of a private cab driven by -you guessed it- some dodgy bloke, then wake up later weraing even less clothing, whilst its not in any way to be condoned, its still them asking for trouble in a way. Like I say, to emphasise my point, it shouldnt be like that, but the fact that it is like that should make people aware, and behave in a slightly more defensive fashion.
*awaits cries of "we must seek out the root cause of the problem!" *

 

[rynnor]

Theres also the fact that a lot of women whilst pissed will shag blokes they otherwise wouldnt and then wake up the next morning rather unhappy - however unless you are completely paralytic/unconscious alcohol cannot actually make you do anything you really wouldnt want to do (except vomit maybe ;P ).

I dont think having a realistic attitude to rape is sexist - there actually is a difference between saying that a persons actions put themself at risk and saying that a person was responsible for the criminal acts of another.

 

[maxi]

Or maybe people are attempting to give a complete picture, and are not interested in PC rhetoric meant to impress their girlfriends.

I see what you're getting at. it's bollocks, but I see it. It's also absolutely out of place in this discussion, and I'm of the opinion that Political Correctness often masks hatred/Ill-feeling without dealing with it. The only people I know who are uppity with political correctness are themselves ignorant motherfuckers whose ignorance just to happens to land them on the left of the political spectrum. I detest Moral Outrage and everything that goes with it. I'm not fond of Morals either, really.

I also fail to see how a complete picture can arise from paranoid speculation that shifts the blame toward the other sex without actually pointing the finger directly.

 

[maxi]

I dont think having a realistic attitude to rape is sexist - there actually is a difference between saying that a persons actions put themself at risk and saying that a person was responsible for the criminal acts of another.

The thing about it is, you're not being realistic about rape. All you're doing is highlighting situations where you think Common Sense should prevail. You fail to realise or address the fact that most rape does not occur in such situations.A theme common on this thread. In most cases it's unavoidable. Rape is mostly commited by people who know the victim.

There's also the fact that a lot of men whilst pissed will attempt to fuck women they otherwise wouldn't and when they get the big Fuck Off, try and push it further - This is as much speculative BOLLOCKS as you're first line.

 

[Turamber]

Maxi calling people closet rapists or, at best, misogynists for daring to say that peoples own actions sometimes lead to rape claims is ridiculous. Thankfully not many of my female friends have experienced rape themselves so the news reports of rape, and claims of rape, are an important part of forming an opinion about it and how it happens.

How many young girls in the past year or so have claimed to have been raped by footballers? How many of those claims have been proven? And how many of them have appointed Max Clifford as their publicist in an attempt to sell their stories to the newspapers?

And don't forget that this thread was started not about rape itself but about the findings of a very specific survey. It doesn't take a genius to see why some people consider alcohol to be a major factor in rape, or claimed rape.

 

[Whipped]

Just to add some wood to the already burning fire. Is it possible for a man to be raped? and would he even report it or feel to embaressed?