Impressed £67.5 billion... nope... 263 billion, and rising.

[Scouse]

Sorry I forgot I had to put it in simple terms for you. The budgets of those on the Pro-AGW side dwarf those on the sceptical side

The NOAA is a fucking science group, not a fucking lobbyist.

There's no equivalence there.

 

[georgie]

How? Are we going to increase the rate we're destroying the environment?

Well... yes. But that's by the by.

 

[Scouse]

True @georgie.

My mind still boggles at @Bodhi's idiocy. The NOAA carries out actual science (hence the requirement for funding - they've about 11,000 employees) and the heartland institute is a lobbying org which does no actual work but works to undermine science in the pursuit of vested iterests' profit.

Bodhi sees them as "two sides of the same argument - one much better funded" - but one is performing science, and explaining the results, the other is not doing any work but is well funded for just putting messages out that undermine the work.

i.e. NOAA is useful and does work to advance human knowledge, the Heartland Institute is a globally damaging rich man's shit-dishing machine.

 

[Bodhi]

True @georgie.

My mind still boggles at @Bodhi's idiocy. The NOAA carries out actual science (hence the requirement for funding - they've about 11,000 employees) and the heartland institute is a lobbying org which does no actual work but works to undermine science in the pursuit of vested iterests' profit.

Bodhi sees them as "two sides of the same argument - one much better funded" - but one is performing science, and explaining the results, the other is not doing any work but is well funded for just putting messages out that undermine the work.

i.e. NOAA is useful and does work to advance human knowledge, the Heartland Institute is a globally damaging rich man's shit-dishing machine.

Compare their budgets to pro-AGW advocacy groups then, like Greenpeace, FotE, Extinction Rebellion etc. Still skewed exactly the same way.

Bear in mind you original point was that the FF companies are shovelling money at denier groups, but there doesn't seem to actually be any evidence of that - unless you have some to hand?

 

[Scouse]

On your second point: It's not remotely controversial to say FF companies fund denier and lobby groups - just like tobacco companies did - and if want to argue from that standpoint then I'm absolutely out as I've better things to burn life on.

On your other point - I'd be amazed if you could understand the funding dynamic of Extinction Rebellion - it's mostly volunteers. Greenpeace and FotE are different from FF lobbyists in a few obvious ways.

Firstly. Although sometimes misguided, they base their campaigning around scientific research (like from the NOAA) - denier groups largely don't (at best) or abuse the science (at worst) - because the science isn't on their side, so the tactic is to undermine it.

Secondly - and crucially - they've not got a product that they sell that they stand to lose profit on.

The only vested interest of Greenpeace and FotE are the preservation of the natural world, not the preservation of profits to the clear detriment of the natural world. If you think profit isn't a massively distorting issue look at tobacco: the preservation of profits despite causing death in over 50% of their customers.

So yeah, again, false equivalence.

 

[Job]

Glad to see everyones doing their bit.

Porsche, Boeing Form Partnership to Develop Flying Taxis | Digital Trends

 

[Scouse]

Quick @Bodhi! Another crusty!! (Albeit one with a PhD in Molecular Biophysics)

Interesting that the police have put a ban on protesting across all London at short notice without following due process eh? Anyone would think that they're a bunch of jackbooted anti-democracy activists, if they weren't just an arm of the state....

 

[Job]

Take it to the Supreme court, they loved being biased on emotional issues.

 

[Gwadien]

Take it to the Supreme court, they loved being biased on emotional issues.

I'm glad you're acknowledging Brexit is an emotional issue

 

[Scouse]

Don't bring that shite in here pretty please...

 

[Embattle]

UK renewables out-generate fossil fuels for an entire quarter

 

[Job]

They are quoting theoretical power production.
Fossil and nuclear still provided the majority of actual usable, inertia backed base power.

But at least we are moving towards actually being able to produce it if storage is worked out.

 

[Scouse]

Fossil and nuclear still provided the majority of actual usable, inertia backed base power.

You didn't read it did you.

Coal < 1% (including regular weeks where we don't use any), nuclear 19%. Gas the rest of the non-renewables. And offshore wind is about to start beating that.

 

[Job]

Fucking lol.
Middle class twerp climbs on train in in Camden, gets dragged off and battered.

I can just see his thoughts as a black guy grabs his feet and pulls him off.

But I support diversit.....arggghhh.

 

[Job]

Then we had a long segment on Good Morning about climate change and what we can all do...followed by an advert for Valiant gas boilers.

 

[Scouse]

Don't suppose we could get @Job's post for laughing at a white guy for getting beaten up either moved from this thread (along with this one) or deleted @Jupitus?

 

[Embattle]

Extinction Rebellion activists disrupt London Underground

 

[Job]

Yes Scouse remove it..ban it.

Thats the new argument from the left.

 

[Scouse]

Extinction Rebellion activists disrupt London Underground

Understand it'd raise heckles - but I hope that the cops get hold of the guys that beat them up and put them in jail.

Peaceful protest is inconvenient. These guys are quite prepared to be arrested by the authorities and taken away. A braying mob of violent southern retards shouldn't be allowed to get away with what they did.

You can hate any peaceful protest all you like but you don't get to be violent about it, no matter how inconvenient it is to you.

It's a bit weird that they protested on public transport though. You'd have thought they would have picked their targets better and stuck to keeping roads closed.

 

[Scouse]

Yes Scouse remove it..ban it.

Thats the new argument from the left.

No - I'd no idea what happened so it just looked like another off-topic tirade from our resident racist arsehole - and fair enough to either be moved to random spam or deleted from this thread.

If you ever bothered to provide links - you cunt - then I wouldn't have written that.

 

[Embattle]

The target was utterly stupid and quite frankly there are far too many hypocrites in these XR protests to really make most people take any notice of them.

Yes it was rather violent of that protester to kick the person in the face

 

[Scouse]

The target was utterly stupid and quite frankly there are far too many hypocrites in these XR protests to really make most people take any notice of them.

Yes it was rather violent of that protester to kick the person in the face

I'm pretty sure that he was terrified by the (entirely predictable) braying mob who were throwing stuff at him and shouting that they were going to fuck him over (which they did - group mobbed kicking on the floor - fucking disgusting).

But anyway: if you could explain exactly why they're hypocrites please. It's something that comes up again and again - accusations of moral impurity in a world where it's impossible to be so seemingly negating their actions - accusations made against people who are taking actual action to be better, from people sat in armchairs sniping from the sidelines.

 

[Gwadien]

They're hypocrites because they're making people feel bad with facts, so they need to stfu

 

[Scouse]

It's a serious point @Embattle - people being called hypocrites as a way of ignoring the debate.

I'm not trying to be a dick to you - I'm simply challenging your opinion and asking you to support it, because I think you're misguided in your belief.

 

[Embattle]

It's a serious point @Embattle - people being called hypocrites as a way of ignoring the debate.

I'm not trying to be a dick to you - I'm simply challenging your opinion and asking you to support it, because I think you're misguided in your belief.

Well as you no doubt know I've considered you to be hypocrite for quite some time, whether it be tax to social issues to your own efforts to talk shop on global warming while globetrotting and trying to make yourself feel better by offsetting, thus I'm perfectly fine with explaining it to you although it'll probably be pointless as using my willy to stop a black hole from eating matter.

These groups/people are much the same whether it is mothers breastfeeding babies while increasing the population at the same time, OAPs sticking themselves to trains heading towards London because it is the evil financial center while no doubt having pension funds controlled by it, celebrities telling everyone to save the planet while polluting it doing some of the most worthless things, protesters using many products that contribute to the damage they seem to want to stop from oil to the assorted minerals and chemicals that make up the newest tech, blocking off London having just parked assorted lorries in it or pulling a pink boat, etc. etc.

These protesters are every bit as ignorant/annoying as people who totally deny the issue such as that dumbass Trump.

 

[Bodhi]

Looks like they stopped a load of cockneys from getting to work, were forcibly removed and in the process decided to start kicking cockneys in the head.

You wouldn't be surprised how little sympathy I have for the middle class crusties. Maybe stick to Waitrose in Islington next time eh?

 

[Scouse]

That's how you feel about it (vitriolic). It's not an opinion based in actual reality though @Embattle.

No man lives in a vaccum - all of these protestors have to live and work in the world they were born in. Your argument is just another reductionist "if they don't live like swampy and if they've ever used soap - I'll call them hypocrites and ignore them" but the opposite is "if they look like swampy and don't use soap then they're fucking crusties - and I'll ignore them".

It's a stance that has been so well examined from all angles in the last 40 years that it's no longer tenable for any serious person to hold.


Monibot addresses some of it in his blog before he got arrested for protesting. Everybody is a little bit of a hypocrite (if you like) - it's impossible not be if you live in our society. It's not are you a hypocrite - it's what are you prepared to do in your own life, how hard are you trying.

I know this action will expose me to criticism as well as prosecution. Like other prominent activists, I will be lambasted for hypocrisy: this is now the favoured means of trying to take down climate activists. Yes, we are hypocrites. Because we are embedded in the systems we contest, and life is complicated, no one has ever achieved moral purity. The choice we face is not between hypocrisy and purity, but between hypocrisy and cynicism. It is better to strive to do good, and often fail, than not to strive at all.

 

[Scouse]

lol, I wondered when @Bodhi was going to turn up. It's his vitriol I was thinking of when I was typing Emb. Because your opinion mirrors Mr big-ass BMW's so much

 

[Scouse]

Love him or hate him - this isn't hypocricy - it's putting your liberty on the line (has his say from about a minute in):


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA51eTAu94o

 

[Bodhi]

Love him or hate him - this isn't hypocricy - it's putting your liberty on the line (has his say from about a minute in):


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA51eTAu94o

Not hypocrisy no. Just misguided narcissism.