Where is Midgard on Prydwen going ?

I was writing a rather long and tedious note as reply to a thread here and got to thinking…

That thought ended up here in this thread.

Where is Midgard heading ?
While I read through these threads I see a lot of: “Midgard get organized and QQ!”, “Haha Midgard now you know how we felt it in Emain”, etc.

As a Midgardian I can only say that these are good points…we should get even more organized, and Hibs have had a pain trying to roam Emain with 150+ mids there serging anything in sight or savage groups eating 20+ Albs or Hibs.

What ever your opinion is that Midgard deserve a bit of low period or not, I would still like to enlighten the Alb and Hib community to why there is a mass exodus from Midgard and why you see a lot of Midgardians complaining (whining if you will).

First I have to say that Midgard is still a great "open field"-rvr realm. But what has happened with NF is that its all about keeps/towers/relics. And when it comes to that we are seriously lacking in viable options. There are a lot of discussions going around about this. But I still believe that all of us understand and can agree on one thing. The petspamming/range classes make up a huge part of keep takes and keep defending.
Hibs are great at defending keeps with their animists and Albs rock at taking keeps with their range/pets etc. Mids have it hard trying to compete with this…and this has created a frustration with a big part of the player bases in Midgard. And with the more usefulness of Scouts/theurge/animists/firewizzes etc ranged classes, follows a formidable surge in these classes and this only builds the frustration with the Midgard community.
Midgard has lost a lot of its player base since WoW/NF and this has made it very hard for us to complete raids like ML/Dragon or Relic. And since Midgard need more people to do these than both Alb/Hib this is bad.

So what is the point of this thread then? Well, in Midgard a vicious circle has started. It’s the same development as in the states. Where a lot of Midgards population has left due to this frustration either to WoW or to Albion/Hib. This in turn has made it hard to pull together raids etc and those who still play gather in close friends groups (1fg roaming or raiding) meaning that new players gets no place to be and find themselves leaving too. Those of us who organize raids etc try to keep the spirit up but its getting harder and harder with every failed raid and we loose more and more people. I would like to stop the same thing that has happened to all the Midgard servers in the US to happen here, but I don’t know how.
There will not be any change for Midgard for at least a year or so and I doubt that we will survive that long. So the question goes out to all…especially Albs and Hibs…are there any ideas of what to do to save Prydwen/Midgard from dying? (Catacombs/Clustering of servers will do little to help this problem it seems from tests)

Somehow its always been my belief that the truly great thing about daoc is that there is Realm wars. Where there are 3 parts that counteracts with each other. If one of these parts goes away, it would be a major setback in my opinion towards the idea of playing the game. I would be in the same state of mind if this was happening to any of the three realms.

/Charmangle

Ps: Since I love NF but despice beeing a raidleader but not enough people to finish the raids, Im beginning to dispair myself...actually doubting that mid or even daoc will survive 2005. There aren’t 1 or 2 guilds in Albland who want to migrate to Midgard to even out the scores ? I for one would welcome you! ds.

charmangle said:

There aren’t 1 or 2 guilds in Albland who want to migrate to Midgard to even out the scores ? I for one would welcome you! ds.

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Judging from alot of replys from albs about how good mids are and how easymode it is I bet there would be a massexodus over to show us daft players playing mid just how easy it is eh?


On a serious note, Midgard Prydwen if nothing drastic happens will not be 100 total players (including bb accounts) come summer of 2005.

Agree with both.

Maybe there will be more than 100 players, think thats a bit low, but wont be more than 20 in RvR at a time is my guess, in the summer 2005, if nothing changes.

The openfield battles is pretty well pointed out by Charmangle, mids lack alot in the range and specially lacking a pet-spammer, not only for keeptakes, but mostly for ToA and other PvE things.

As some mid pointed out in another thread, it gets disappointing and outright sad to browse stragedy guides for ToA, just to find that the "3 people team" is either including pet spammers or hib focus shield with HoT.

Seen from midgaard perspective, the situation is very unbalanced as this time, me might have some of the best classes for open field battles with even numbers versus each other, but in keep takes we lack a lot and due to ToA being so hard without pet-spammers (this is my guess), we dont have that many in RvR, and is outnumbered in many fights, with (again) no pet spammers to even it up or the range to give us an advantage...

As I see it, as of now, alb have all the best classes in all aspects with the current situations of RvR (keep takes and zerg battles), but prove me wrong anyway?

Well anyway, will probarly stick around for some time yet, dont like to be an easy bugger going the moment it gets tough, but I still think it is just a bit to much of the bad for mid at the moment...

You have the numbers, just not the teamwork
Talk your RvR guilds into joining the Middy frontier BG and maybe helping.

Bubble said:

You have the numbers, just not the teamwork
Talk your RvR guilds into joining the Middy frontier BG and maybe helping.

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Why bother? We still kill our share of enemies even with no relics and keepraids are boring so why should we bother with it? And btw, theres not many rvr guilds left anyway, mael, el, baf kinda dead.

We dont have much of rvr guilds left...

Bubble said:

You have the numbers, just not the teamwork
Talk your RvR guilds into joining the Middy frontier BG and maybe helping.

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Sigh why cant albs/hibs trust our words for it...there isnt the numbers. It isnt that we are bad at organizing etc. We have had the numbers but not any more. The rvr guilds have all but quit playing in midgard. A couple of groups try to keep it up roaming once or twice a week but nothing more than that. Those groups wount join in on keep takes or stuff like that since its only to get farmed by albs...

The rvr guilds was the first to stop doign rvr in NF just coz of the frustration I was talking about earlier...

/Charmangle

Bubble said:

You have the numbers, just not the teamwork
Talk your RvR guilds into joining the Middy frontier BG and maybe helping.

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newbie, rvr guilds aint rly playing are they?~~


anyway, warlock seem to be a nice keep/range class type for mid, not a petspammer, but some intresting spells just for ze keeps..

1.71 can change alot aswell for relic status, now its just the realm with most ppl who wins~~

AND 1.71 should have been released with NF in europe, more mids(and other rvr guilds in other realms) would probably have played still.

Bubble said:

You have the numbers, just not the teamwork
Talk your RvR guilds into joining the Middy frontier BG and maybe helping.

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People dont seem to realize it but with almost all RvR guilds gone.. even the semi ones like klan nidstang etc etc is running fewer and fewer out there.. whenever you post and tell the story about midgard, how hard it is to get mls, artis etc done(not to talk about organising defence with most of the old leaders/guilds gone) all you get back in your Face is QQ more n00bs learn how to play, you got the tools and the numbers etc.. tbh MID ISNT WHAT IT WAS!! Its not even CLOSE to its former shape... My old guild warriors of the mist had a top of 60 people in it.. most times we where atleast 30+ active in guild.. today i think 2 or perhaps 3 are left playing the game from my guild..

Tbh what really needs to be done is alot of balancing.. Midgard in the olddays was doing OK not because we was overpowerd or because we had the right classes etc.. Midgard was doing good because we had alot of good and dedicated players.. call em elite guilds gankgroups or what you like.. We where very fortunate to have these on our side since it could help us compete against the other realms in the big "war". At open field RvR midgard wasnt bad but in the RvR stage with keeps etc no way would Midgard have been as successful without the dedicated players drawing up tactics etc.. Now we have the state of NF.. and new frontiers is very little about tactics and so on.. Most of midgards finest left as they finally saw that midgard simple cant compete on the big stage... People say the elite guilds choose midgard because of its optimized setup in oldfrontiers.. I think most dedicated RvR guilds choosed midgard because it was going to be a challenge and you where certain to fight alot of enemies (albion being the biggest realm and all). There isnt really much else to say other then midgard is in a dangerous position more and more are leaving and the fact that the other realms dont see the problems isnt really helping.. Midgard can ask for boosts or whine about the other realms for how long they want any boost of mid or nerf of the other realms just aint gonna happen.. You should look up the post where Tesla linked to a very nice board where the state of the game was discussed.. most of that thread took up serious and valid issues but still mythic and the other realms dont recognise em.. I have seen alot of good things and bad things in this game.. Mids dont ask to be overpowerd or "uber" killers.. they just want a chance to compete with there chars.. as it is now midgard has in my eye one good class that stand out "healer", rest i would say all the other realms have a better version of.. Fact 1. Midgard is behind in ToA equipment-> Alb/hib can farm artis/scrolls alot easier either using charmed pet or spamming pet. Fact 2 Midgard is behind in MLs. Almost same reason there.. Call it qq call it whatever you like.. THESE ARE FACTS FOR EVERY MIDGARD OUT THERE...

"I think most dedicated RvR guilds choosed midgard because it was going to be a challenge"

HihHIHihIEHiHIEHiEHiEHiHEIhIHEihIHAIhiHAiaHIAHiHAaHAhHAhahAhaHA!!!!!1!

.. to emain

Can't we just go back to the basics? Normal good old roaming RvR and the odd relic raid every once in a blue moon...Well personally relics don't appeal much to me...I don't like it when they are imbalanced cause they make fights imbalanced. And I don't really enjoy relic raiding because it's just zerging.

Old.Ilum said:

Can't we just go back to the basics? Normal good old roaming RvR and the odd relic raid every once in a blue moon...

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And hibs go back to PvE and albs only move out if PE is around?

Zebolt said:

And hibs go back to PvE and albs only move out if PE is around?

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Aye the warders in rog's are really what contribute to rvr quality?` And wtf RvR seems more dead now than ever anyway.

RvR now is basically PE (not sure if it is /as grp but the one with Fade in it) and AoD running around owning everything, hehe.

RvR sucks atm Gifv back old emain

givf back the days of walker imo

Oldfaravid said:

I think most dedicated RvR guilds choosed midgard because it was going to be a challenge and you where certain to fight alot of enemies (albion being the biggest realm and all).

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More like people pick a realm regardless, learn the game, eventually find out what works best in the game, and it so happened Midgard had all the ingredients to make the best group setups for a long time. There's of course people who will then flock to the overpowered classes/abilities/setups etc and Midgard wasn't exactly lacking that.

as it is now midgard has in my eye one good class that stand out "healer", rest i would say all the other realms have a better version of..

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Grass is always greener etc, SBs and Hunters (although seeing how archers have it in NF, wouldn't be crying as a Hunter) are a little subpar, Thanes are not all too hot, and that's about it, Midgard has plenty of good classes and the other realms have their share of subpar or not so hot classes.

Besides the grass is even greener when you have two neighbours. When it isn't greener in neighbour #1, you can always find it greener in neighbour #2, only the game isn't midgard vs hibernalbion but midgard vs hibernia vs albion.

And no class should 'stand out' in the first place, not in any of the three realms.

As for what I think is the problem of Midgard atm, well, I'd say ToA as you pointed out didn't make it easy on Midgard (although Midgard has its advantages as well, a certain merc in my guild would have loved end regen on his bot when levelling artifacts), and the fact that most of Midgard was melee based before ToA when melee ruled all, only it doesn't anymore.

As I see it and as far as zerg/siege warfare is concerned, Albion has the population, Hibernia makes up for lower population by being loaded with casters in the first place and has the nice tools like baseline stun and shroomers that makes life so much easier when they can sit behind walls, and as a result, there's a shitload of brehons out in the frontier now. Midgard ... well Midgard doesn't have the population of Albion, and not that many casters to begin with, and they don't have the tools of Hibernia either. Of course, that certain Midgard players just can't be arsed anymore because they can't just farm warder PUGs all day in emain as they used to isn't helping.

Another thing I'd like to mention, I've read multiple times about theurgist pets and bolt range mez and what not, seriously, it's not theurgists taking doors or walls down, it's trebs and rams, would hardly make a difference without the theurgists, and as for bolt range mez, I'm sure it's annoying and all, but being able to mez at bolt range doesn't win siege battles, it won't get you into a keep and up the lord that's for sure.

While its just plain stupid to change the game so much that much of the RvR-guilds quit I do think RvR on a active server these days are something that can be fun for all parts...old frontiers was mostly (only?) fun for the RvR-guilds that did the mindless, endless route in emain until the grass stopped growing there...

Imho of course.

Equendil said it really - thuergists and bolt ranged mez counts for shit in the nitty gritty of storming a keep. Mid is loaded with ae instas galore - far more than alb. imo its alot easier for mids to defend a keep than it is for albs.

Fact is mid 1 fg gank grps post nf have thrown their dummies out of the pram - where as alb rvr grps like AoD/PE/FL have reorganised, reformed and managed to get it right.

alb right now has organised Banelord TWF reaver groups( for a few more weeks anway !) - but people forget all realms have access to these albilites, not just alb. Full credit to stalky for setting up these groups - the fact remains mid and hib could do exactly the same thing.

hibs come out to play cause they know, even if out numbered 4/1 summon mushie zerg will soon even it out - thats why they play. every alb knows even if 8 fg of albs are attacking a hib keep, if hibs have just say 4 animists, albs may as well give up - all the "honest" animists see to that - like hell they dont know all the out of LoS spots in a keep, but as i said all animists are "honest" and would never do such a thing working as intended

mids - make new gank groups, albion did this and thats why its working. tonight we had a fg of stigmata/pe/rising force/AoD just roaming, and thats ignoring the zerg. none of the current alb 1 fg grps were running as they are now in OF - they are all reworked out of whats left from the WoW migration.

Hmm...

Zede said:

Equendil said it really - thuergists and bolt ranged mez counts for shit in the nitty gritty of storming a keep. Mid is loaded with ae instas galore - far more than alb. imo its alot easier for mids to defend a keep than it is for albs.

Fact is mid 1 fg gank grps post nf have thrown their dummies out of the pram - where as alb rvr grps like AoD/PE/FL have reorganised, reformed and managed to get it right.

alb right now has organised Banelord TWF reaver groups( for a few more weeks anway !) - but people forget all realms have access to these albilites, not just alb. Full credit to stalky for setting up these groups - the fact remains mid and hib could do exactly the same thing.

hibs come out to play cause they know, even if out numbered 4/1 summon mushie zerg will soon even it out - thats why they play. every alb knows even if 8 fg of albs are attacking a hib keep, if hibs have just say 4 animists, albs may as well give up - all the "honest" animists see to that - like hell they dont know all the out of LoS spots in a keep, but as i said all animists are "honest" and would never do such a thing working as intended

mids - make new gank groups, albion did this and thats why its working. tonight we had a fg of stigmata/pe/rising force/AoD just roaming, and thats ignoring the zerg. none of the current alb 1 fg grps were running as they are now in OF - they are all reworked out of whats left from the WoW migration.

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You really think mids havent tried that ? On all servers in the world ? There isnt a midgardian own relic left on any server in the world after 2 weeks of NF. That has to count for something ? The point of this thread was too enlighten Hibs/Albs about what midgard experiences atm. And warn for what is to come...as other midgardians have said here...I too think that within the years end there wount be more than a total of 50 active players on midgard. And absolutly not more than 1 fg out in rvr at any given time ie dead. This is what has already happened on the amercian servers and the albs there wonder where all the rvr went ? Well here you have had a heads up! When you ask yourself in a year or so where did all the rvr go you will just have to reread this thread...because it has rerolled albs instead!

Anyway Happy New Years to each and all of you Midgard, Hibs and Albs...I hope to be writing here in a year but atm me and most of midgard here doubt it...

/Charmangle

Zede said:

Equendil said it really - thuergists and bolt ranged mez counts for shit in the nitty gritty of storming a keep. Mid is loaded with ae instas galore - far more than alb. imo its alot easier for mids to defend a keep than it is for albs.

Fact is mid 1 fg gank grps post nf have thrown their dummies out of the pram - where as alb rvr grps like AoD/PE/FL have reorganised, reformed and managed to get it right.

alb right now has organised Banelord TWF reaver groups( for a few more weeks anway !) - but people forget all realms have access to these albilites, not just alb. Full credit to stalky for setting up these groups - the fact remains mid and hib could do exactly the same thing.

hibs come out to play cause they know, even if out numbered 4/1 summon mushie zerg will soon even it out - thats why they play. every alb knows even if 8 fg of albs are attacking a hib keep, if hibs have just say 4 animists, albs may as well give up - all the "honest" animists see to that - like hell they dont know all the out of LoS spots in a keep, but as i said all animists are "honest" and would never do such a thing working as intended

mids - make new gank groups, albion did this and thats why its working. tonight we had a fg of stigmata/pe/rising force/AoD just roaming, and thats ignoring the zerg. none of the current alb 1 fg grps were running as they are now in OF - they are all reworked out of whats left from the WoW migration.

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What i dont get is why non opted groups from mids even go rvr when all you meet is alb groups with another fg add either in middle of fight or just after, all you do is feed the albzerg rp, might aswell go pve or something since theres no chance of winning the fight and let the albs roam around killing beetles or whatnot. Let them see how much fun it is to run around with nothing to kill

I have to agree our teamwork sucks atm, I think we were unlucky and lost most of our rvr leaders in a short space of time. ATM though numbers are our big problem, every prime time login this week i've checked total numbers and mid numbers and we only average 25% of the total pop (one afternoon we had 70 people out of 600).

Assuming we are now fighting on the same level as hibs we have the big problems previously stated, but additionally we still have this 'melee realm' stigmata to overcome. I still see Thanes/Skalds/Warriors/Zerks being levelled when quite honestly their PVP use will be neglibible, we really need to increase our caster numbers yet more but why would an Alb/Hib from another server roll a caster here when apart from BD's they provide nothing new to the player moving. And ofc to be an effective caster you need to be TOA'd out the wazoo which is becoming an ever more distant target without effective ways to take out the mobs.

Yes a lot of the problem is our own making but without the tools from Mythic we have no way to dig ourself out.

Well, bonedancers are insanely powerful now with twf and banelord, and thanes also with static tempest and an added pbaoe wrath of champions. Shamans and healers are still great, except healers still have a defiency in dex. Not everyone wants to play a silly bonedancer though. And the lack of a petspammer is really disturbing in pve. It wasn't much of a problem before when midgard could field the numbers, but the lack of a petspammer is really showing now. Rm's and sm's are also great casters I think, but they have a hard time surviving vs baseline stun and scout range.
I mean, I got mezzed today, then waited for sorc to start lifetapping, then I qc stun and pwned him. He managed to get off two lifetaps before my stun had cast. It's a bit silly, but stun is rather overpowered. As is sorc range, both for interrupt and for pacifying the opposition before moving into range of enemy casters, then open fire on them.

Having left in september and having just come back for christmas there is a dramatic change in midgard, with the typical reponse from albion being that we have the ability to own RvR still but we wont because we don't feel like it or cant be bothered ?

My first reaction when i came back was where is everyone and this sucks but as i got into it a bit more i find i like it a bit more but would kill to have the old RvR back. The fact is mid never had THE best set up, hibs and albs and mids have always had there strong and weak points, merc groups and chanter groups have always done extremely well.

The fact is Mid just cant compete at the moment, we seem to have no healers to CC my bet is they got bored sitting in keep spread healing, and if they decided to go for a mezz getting bolted by the 50482 new "hi dere my m8s said fotm fire wizzars ownz0rZ nf in epiczzzz111!!11"

There seem to be no meeting place in general or is this just beacuse no ones about... there doesnt seem to be any random groups, the randoms just tend to roam about bled bridge. Which means the set groups usualy dont do as well as when they are in hib/alb they will always get added onto but never get any help, look at the rp for last week

Last week RP
Albion - 19,803,851 (44%)
Hibernia - 13,526,365 (30%)
Midgard - 11,712,885 (26%)

and thats with -

Active Characters
Albion - 2,951 (42%)
Hibernia - 1,851 (26%)
Midgard - 2,240 (32%)

We dont have the tools albion or hibernia have, we pretty much suck at keeptakes, and arnt as good as hib / alb at defense. Reavers are unique and can take out massive numbers with ease as NO OTHER charecter can, animists can pretty much do the same and cause havok with well placed shrooms but these can be delt with but are still powerful... and mid has ..... ?

Midgard is being destroyed beacuse of a number of things and one of these is range, there are loads of sorc about at the moment and the range of the mezz is just silly.... anyone remeber when albs used to moan there where no sorc's RvRing ? You pop you head round the side of a keep wall (or even if you dont) and your bolted, debuffed lifetapped nuked for insane damage by the fotm cabbys sorcs thurgs wizards. Albion got the best stealthers, best casters and the best tanks but id say they probably will get some more love

Oh and WTF mids getting a decent class.... NERF IT !!!11111111111111111

Derric said:

"I think most dedicated RvR guilds choosed midgard because it was going to be a challenge"

HihHIHihIEHiHIEHiEHiEHiHEIhIHEihIHAIhiHAiaHIAHiHAaHAhHAhahAhaHA!!!!!1!

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A challenge in the form of having alot of enemies to fight.. most RvR guilds in Oldfrontiers having chosen alb or hib wouldnt have had as much to fight as when choosing mid..

Zede said:

mids - make new gank groups, albion did this and thats why its working.

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Typical - is it too much to ask read other ppl posts before u replay? Special for u : THERE IS NO PEOPLE LEFT IN MID and those couple we have cant do all PvE what u NEED ( yes , u need to do that ) for RvR to have close fights in open fields to fully TOA´d enemie groups. And being to week in keepbattles dosnt change even then.
Good posts, charmangle, but i really doubt that average alb can relize server death-problem before its really happening. About rvR guilds in mid - there is nothing left. I am logging in 2-3 times in week last times ( damn autorenew ) and there is 0 to 4 Mael member online, about same with BO, no EL, couple KN and etc etc ...
About myself - my main char (skald) got nerfed again and sadly shes less groupfriendly then ever. Only useful tool it FZ, for what i did loads of PvE and its getting nerfed soon . Other chars are in SI set or in dropped crap - need ppl to get armors and MLs what mid dont have
I still try solo some times, thanx to all solo albs and hibbs who i meet. Tho, usually those runs end in zerg and getting 300 to 400 average RPs for soloing some1 isnt really worth my time

Bibi said:

Typical - is it too much to ask read other ppl posts before u replay? Special for u : THERE IS NO PEOPLE LEFT IN MID and those couple we have cant do all PvE what u NEED ( yes , u need to do that ) for RvR to have close fights in open fields to fully TOA´d enemie groups. And being to week in keepbattles dosnt change even then.
Good posts, charmangle, but i really doubt that average alb can relize server death-problem before its really happening. About rvR guilds in mid - there is nothing left. I am logging in 2-3 times in week last times ( damn autorenew ) and there is 0 to 4 Mael member online, about same with BO, no EL, couple KN and etc etc ...
About myself - my main char (skald) got nerfed again and sadly shes less groupfriendly then ever. Only useful tool it FZ, for what i did loads of PvE and its getting nerfed soon . Other chars are in SI set or in dropped crap - need ppl to get armors and MLs what mid dont have
I still try solo some times, thanx to all solo albs and hibbs who i meet. Tho, usually those runs end in zerg and getting 300 to 400 average RPs for soloing some1 isnt really worth my time

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lol and what do u think alb is full of rvr guilds?
NOT RLY!
cry more and dont (never ever) adapt pls
rly easier

Bhalage said:

lol and what do u think alb is full of rvr guilds?
NOT RLY!
cry more and dont (never ever) adapt pls
rly easier

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and why dont you fuck off and sit in a little keep somwhere dancing round a fucking maypole beacuse from the sounds of it thats what you want to do in the game

runemaster is by far best class in the game imo

anyway alb went through similar problems to this not so long ago...will take a while but you guys will come out stronger.

The l33test rvr guilds are just a leech on your realm from comments I`ve read here..they don't give a shit about midgard only about rp`s so once they`re gone and the rest of mid realise this fact you guys will start pulling together and show alb how good you guys can be IMO

Zede said:

mids - make new gank groups, albion did this and thats why its working.

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Yeah create new gankgroups that the realm can whine at as they did before