Agree or not ?

Wij · Jan 26, 2004

http://www.firingsquad.com/features/jakub_rant_sniper/

Me, I vote yes entirely. I'm a natural charge into the firefight /create my own bloody firefight type player so naturally I tend to hate 'realistic' games for this reason.

(And yes, UT had a sniper rifle too but it was only really deadly with a headshot and even then not with a shieldbelt equipped, and have you tried sniping someone using the translocator ?)

Will · Jan 26, 2004

Damn work filter. :eek:

Wazzerphuk · Jan 26, 2004

When I played UT with the sniper rifle I'd be running round the map FCing etc. Really brutal weapon, if you can learn to use it well as a NORMAL weapon it's such a huge advantage.

Plus: This guy talks a LOT of shit. Always been a bit 50-50 with snipering, but this guy is just seemingly venting his anger cos he can't hit small targets far away

Will · Jan 26, 2004

I'm assuming that the article is about sniper rifles ruining games. I disagree, mostly because I like sniper rifles. I'm more of a realistic game player, where sniper rifles are part of the game.

Wazzerphuk · Jan 26, 2004

And I've never come across a game with too many snipers in.

Except public servers on CTF-Face (UT). That was just plain ugly.

leggy · Jan 26, 2004

for will:

www.transmog.co.uk/sniper.txt
www.transmog.co.uk/sniper.htm

Whatever takes your fancy.

Wazzerphuk · Jan 26, 2004

leggy said:
for will:

www.transmog.co.uk/sniper.txt
www.transmog.co.uk/sniper.htm

Whatever takes your fancy.

How sweet

Will · Jan 26, 2004

leggy said:
for will:

www.transmog.co.uk/sniper.txt
www.transmog.co.uk/sniper.htm

Whatever takes your fancy.

Cheers leggy. That was a bit of a rant to say the least, looks like someone got sick of being sniped. Also, speed and accuracy...there are other skills in FPS games?

Louster · Jan 26, 2004

Ehh, there are a couple more pages after that one which qualify a bunch of the more unreasonable sounding stuff he says, but whatever. I don't play enough first person shooters to have an opinion on this.

Wij · Jan 26, 2004

Swift^ said:
When I played UT with the sniper rifle I'd be running round the map FCing etc. Really brutal weapon, if you can learn to use it well as a NORMAL weapon it's such a huge advantage.

Plus: This guy talks a LOT of shit. Always been a bit 50-50 with snipering, but this guy is just seemingly venting his anger cos he can't hit small targets far away

I agree. The UT sniper rifle was great as a normal weapon for situations where your opponent was too tricky to fall for shock combos and it was too open to rely on rox/flak. However, try using it like people use the sniper rifles in CS/MoH/CoD and you're going to be disappointed. It takes real skill to get off a headshot (fairly small hitbox) on someone using the translocator to race towards your base. Compare that to defending with a sniper on 'realism' games where people walk SLOWLY down one of two or three routes and one shot is almost guarenteed to kill them.

It doesn't even compare at all. He's right. Sniper rifles in most games ruin the game. In UT a skilled sniper Might knock out one of an incoming capture squad (assuming they're not COMLETE n00bs obviously) before they're flying round the base. It's balanced. In CS or similar it's really quite easy to take out 2 or 3 and they don't respawn till next round. It's not balanced. It just makes people wait until the snipers have either won or lost before moving out.

leggy · Jan 26, 2004

I agree to a certain extent.

Take mp_hurtgen on CoD for example. If you don't snipe it is a pain in the arse to actually reach the other side of the map successfuly. Some people like this, but for me it ruins what should be one of the best maps in the game.

xane · Jan 26, 2004

Sniper Rifles are okay if modelled accurately, which is why I like Battlefield 1942, consider the following:

1. The sniper is the only class that does not have a crosshair, unless using the scope, so it is useless for close range combat, catch a sniper in the grass and he's deadmeat.

2. The sniper rifle is more accurately modelled within historical criteria and for gameplay, shots are slow to reload, you have recoil, you have leading, you have to take your eye off the sight between shots, there are few one-shot kills, ammo is limited. This even applies to the auto-loading sniper rifles in Secret Weapons and the Desert Combat mod, apart from that stupid one that has a 1000 mile range or something.

3. Points are awarded not only for kills but for flag captures, I've spent games cruising in a submarine simply capping sea flags and scoring the highest without ever killing anyone. Snipers are unlikely to get points for flag kills if they are stuck up a tree off the side of the map.

4. Staying hidden is extremely difficult, I only ever get sniped twice by the same guy, then he's dead from my "finger of god".

OblongChicken · Jan 26, 2004

He's right, you know. Sniper rifles don't make the game better. Yeah it's fun, and there's something mysteriously satisfying about sniping, even if it's a still target, but there's nothing worse than getting killed by a sniper. You get no chance to kill the sniper like you would if you're using normal guns, so there's no test of skill. It's completely out of your hands whether the sniper hits you or not. Sniping bots is fine, and maybe in a proper team game a sniper can be tactically useful, but on a public server where people snipe just for fun and to get a good score, it's the ultimate nobhead thing to do. And he has another good point about sniper rifles being too powerful. It's ridiculous that you can withstand several bullets from an ak, or a rocket blowing up at your feet, but one bullet from this crappy rifle in a sensitive place and it's lights out. Saying "it's part of the game" is a pretty rubbish thing to say as well. Might as well say aimbotting is part of the game, or anything that the designers wanted to put in, no matter how silly. Sniper rifles do suck because they make the game less fun for everyone else.

xane · Jan 26, 2004

Wij said:
IIt takes real skill to get off a headshot (fairly small hitbox) on someone using the translocator to race towards your base.

You must be joking, I'm an absolute arse at UT yet I could do this with appalling regularity, even close in combat I could use the sniper headshot in a strafe circling melee, the UT rifle was only underpowered in comparison to the other weapons, it only marginally scores above the razor disc thingy because you can't decapitate yourself.

Wij · Jan 26, 2004

I agree that the sniper is more balanced on BF. After all, half the team are immune in their tanks

So no problem as far as BF goes.

throdgrain · Jan 26, 2004

I think the snipers on CoD are great.
i dont however think a Terrorist hiding at the back by spawn on Aztec with a AWP is great.
How do i reconcile those opinions ? Well, on Aztec a T is meant to attack, so by standing at the back hes not playing the game really. Hurtgen on the other hand is effectivily a sniper map anyway, so theres less fault, though the same rule applies, no point a American standing at the back with his Springfield for the duration of the round, as if the Germans are playing the game properly they will be defending, and therefore never even see our Allied camper.

babs · Jan 26, 2004

Not sure what it is that he wants though. Calling everyone else newbies and then complaining because they get good kill ratio? In the same rant as talking about realism?

Anyone with any semblance of skill or having played the games for any length of time will know where the 'noob' snipers will be and how to best get around that. He says he likes it when the games get fast and close range fights, but in the same piece blasts the snipers for not being realistic?

I prefer a mix myself, but if people want to play it like that then let them. The server rules should dictate how a particular game is played, not someone whining because he doesn't like a certain weapon. He says in the same thing that he can find servers where there's no sniper rifles. What's the point in bitching then?

Vive la railgun

GekuL · Jan 26, 2004

Depends on the game. Sniping ruins CoD, but I didn't find it hurt CS as much. The weapons are too accurate to be realistic though. Planetside got it right in my opinion, took a little more than basic hand-eye coordination.

Wij · Jan 26, 2004

xane said:
You must be joking, I'm an absolute arse at UT yet I could do this with appalling regularity, even close in combat I could use the sniper headshot in a strafe circling melee, the UT rifle was only underpowered in comparison to the other weapons, it only marginally scores above the razor disc thingy because you can't decapitate yourself.

Pfft - I bet you couldn't do it very regularly when I'm juggling you with rox or flak. Seriously, I know it's not THAT hard but it's harder than on CS/MoH and like I said - at range ppl will be translocating. Up close there are other good weapons too. It NEVER dominates the game. (OK - maybe when [f]Zulg used it but he was quite good.)

Jupitus · Jan 26, 2004

I'm in favour of snipers, I'm afraid. If you're playing close-up stuff and you start getting sniped then figure out where they are and either call for team support or grab a sniper rifle yourself and deal with them

It doesn't usually require the same fast reactions close-up work does, so it is slightly less skillful but there are also elements such as movement/stealth/location which takes some thinking about.

Personally I like the fact I can smoke/drink and play at the same time without setting fire to my keyboard

Wij · Jan 26, 2004

Jupitus said:
I'm in favour of snipers, I'm afraid. If you're playing close-up stuff and you start getting sniped then figure out where they are and either call for team support or grab a sniper rifle yourself and deal with them

Isn't that precisely what he's whinging about ? To win everyone else becomes a sniper too and the game grinds to a halt. Where's the fun ? If it wasn't for mad ppl like me who refuse to sit back and wait you'd have nothing to snipe at.

(Actually I haven't played any FPS games online for months but hopefully after I move house I'll be able to. Just sold mine again \o/)

leggy · Jan 26, 2004

I's all very well saying "work out where they are and find them". That doesn't work on round based games such as CS and CoD:S&D.

And throd, hurtgen is only a sniper map because the uncapping of sniper rifles makes it that way. The developers really should have seen the total over abuse of snipers when they made the game.

xane · Jan 26, 2004

Wij said:
Pfft - I bet you couldn't do it very regularly when I'm juggling you with rox or flak.

Depends, in open environments you have to hit people and not rely on splash/ricochet damage, so a one-shot kill weapon is quite an advantage, I did use the sniper rifle somewhat successfully on more confined maps but you are curtailed by limited hiding places that can be telefragged easily.

Jupitus · Jan 26, 2004

Wij said:
Isn't that precisely what he's whinging about ? To win everyone else becomes a sniper too and the game grinds to a halt. Where's the fun ? If it wasn't for mad ppl like me who refuse to sit back and wait you'd have nothing to snipe at.

Well I guess I'm lucky to only play fun stuff on our clan server, rather than public servers where this scenario would piss me off. In our games this grinding to a halt wouldn't happen as we all play with the overall fun factor being important to all, and I happily trundle off with my colt ready when needed (Yoni told me to 'fucking get some spawns instead of sitting around' last night, when I was trying to find a sniper spot on Berlin

)

I'm also getting famous for being the sniper who gets knife killed.... alot

Wazzerphuk · Jan 26, 2004

OblongChicken said:
He's right, you know. Sniper rifles don't make the game better. Yeah it's fun, and there's something mysteriously satisfying about sniping, even if it's a still target, but there's nothing worse than getting killed by a sniper. You get no chance to kill the sniper like you would if you're using normal guns, so there's no test of skill. It's completely out of your hands whether the sniper hits you or not. Sniping bots is fine, and maybe in a proper team game a sniper can be tactically useful, but on a public server where people snipe just for fun and to get a good score, it's the ultimate nobhead thing to do. And he has another good point about sniper rifles being too powerful. It's ridiculous that you can withstand several bullets from an ak, or a rocket blowing up at your feet, but one bullet from this crappy rifle in a sensitive place and it's lights out. Saying "it's part of the game" is a pretty rubbish thing to say as well. Might as well say aimbotting is part of the game, or anything that the designers wanted to put in, no matter how silly. Sniper rifles do suck because they make the game less fun for everyone else.

Contradiction of the day. It's ok and for you to snipe, but because it's slightly unbalanced on him when your not sniping and a sniper kills him it's not ok and not fun? Well played.

dysfunction · Jan 26, 2004

There are some Medal of Honour maps where people can just sit with a sniper rifle and others dont stand a chance....especially if they are camped near a spawn point.

I think there should only be allowed 1 or 2 sniper rifles available in a game. Thats more realistic. You dont have a whole army of snipers camping out everywhere.

It gets almost impossible to play the game!

I get great pleasure in sneaking up on a sniper and shooting him in the head at point blank range

Tenko · Jan 26, 2004

In Planetside I thought they balanced snipers well.

On an uninjured player it was 2 shots to kill, you had to lead your target and the bullets were rather scarily tracers

This made Sniping rewarding but damn tricky, unlike spamming some great big shotgun/minigun type thing. The terrain would make the sniper rifle very useful in large open areas but useless in doors.

His rant seems to be valid for some games but off wack for others. But it wouldnt be a rant if it was sensible and considered, would it?

Wazzerphuk · Jan 26, 2004

The main reason people get annoyed with sniper style weapons is because you all insist on playing REALISM based FPS games.

Sniper rifles were made to give one side a blatantly unfair advantage. Stop playing 'realistic' FPS games and this eliminated the problem. The only thing you people are moaning about when you're moaning about snipers ruining games is your own game choice.

dysfunction · Jan 26, 2004

Well I'm going to play a game if its a good game to play. The games are usually a lot of fun but occasionally you get people who team up with sniper rifles and ruin it for the rest.

If that happens I usually quite the game and find another one

Wazzerphuk · Jan 26, 2004

dysfunction said:
Well I'm going to play a game if its a good game to play. The games are usually a lot of fun but occasionally you get people who team up with sniper rifles and ruin it for the rest.

If that happens I usually quite the game and find another one

Surely it'd be better and cheaper to find a game with an even balance and play that? Rather than jumping around like a grasshopper on speed between spikes..

Agree or not ?

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